Discussion: Global Warming and Other Environmental Issues

[VampElvis]

This shouldn't shut them up. To change you mind on this is like suddenly deciding to ban commercial flights after a 747 nosedives into an urban area.

 

[Marx]

BREAKING NEWS!

FIRST BIRD COVERED IN OIL APPEARS, OIL MOVING INTO WETLANDS AREA
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/30/birds-oil-coated-gulf-spill_n_558665.html

...and there are upwards of 5,000 dolphins in the area?

 

[redmarvel]

It rained at the North Pole

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/cbc/100429/canada/canada_north_north_pole_rainfall

Thu Apr 29, 5:22 PM

Spring showers are next to non-existent in the High Arctic, so Environment Canada's senior climatologist says he's baffled to hear that it rained near the North Pole this week.

A group of British scientists working off Ellef Ringnes Island, near the North Pole, reported being hit with a three-minute rain shower over the weekend. The group reported the rain on Tuesday.


Rain in the High Arctic in April is nothing short of bizarre, said David Phillips, senior climatologist with Environment Canada.

"I mean, it really is strange. You just don't expect it to rain in the High Arctic in April; maybe in July and August. And certainly for these scientists from Europe coming over, they must have been also mystified."

Phillips said 50 to 60 years of historical weather data show no signs of rainfall ever occurring in April in the High Arctic.

The earliest account of measurable rainfall at Canadian Forces Station Alert took place on May 21, 1988, he said.

At a weather station on Ellef Ringnes Island, where the scientists were conducting their experiments, Phillips said the earliest measured rainfall was on June 7, 1975.

"For the end of April, it is really bizarre," he said.

 

[VampElvis]

Here's a good one for you. I'm driving in to work this morning and I'm flipping stations because everyone is boring the crap out of me and I land on a local shoe. What do I hear? A truck driver from Bayou La Batre calls in and says he got a call last night from a friend. The friend tells him to whatever he does the next morning get up and go get an commercial oyster license because "a local elected official" has spread the word that once the oil gets here and destroys the oyster beds, those with licenses will be getting $5K/month since they can't work. Time will tell.

 

[Hobodeluxe]

Seems a lot of this could be avoided if the govt wasn't in the pockets of the corporations. the rest of the world uses these. They're required. They've been in use since 93. But not here.

Here's why not

and here's something else to think about

 

[Carcharodon]

Of course this has to happen shortly after I begin to defend off-shore drilling efforts. Then again, this seems to have been precipitated by sloth, greed, and idiocy, so while it's a PR disaster (and a really, really good case for doing everything we can to make this process safer), I'm not sure it's a valid reason to call for an end to off-shore drilling.

Then again, the magnitude of this disaster (and of the idiocy that led to it) is stunning.

 

[Carcharodon]

While they may be rare, they do an incredible amount of environmental damage when things go wrong.

^This...which is why my confidence is now shaken.

This shouldn't shut them up. To change you mind on this is like suddenly deciding to ban commercial flights after a 747 nosedives into an urban area.

 

[Hobgoblin]

Off-shore drilling really isn't as bad as many make it out to be (environmentally). In fact, an argument can be made that it actually creates habitat. Marine organisms readily settle on the hard substrates provided by the oil rigs, and the destruction of benthic habitat from drilling (as well as from subsequent release of chemicals) is, for most intents and purposes, negligible. Hell, the amount of oil leaked each year from NATURAL oil seeps off the coast of California FAR outnumbers that leaked as a result of this activity.

So, in other words....meh.

I've been working on an environmental blog that covers green news. Do you have a link that talks about natural oil leaks releasing more oil than from drilling? It would help.

 

[chaseter]

Seems a lot of this could be avoided if the govt wasn't in the pockets of the corporations. the rest of the world uses these. They're required. They've been in use since 93. But not here.

Here's why not

and here's something else to think about

I stopped listening when he endorsed cap and trade

 

[Hobodeluxe]

I stopped listening when he endorsed cap and trade

is that why you know so little? every time someone says something you disagree with you shut them off? I don't know anyone I agree with 100%.
if I applied your logic I might as well not listen to anyone. Because I am certain that I'm always right. What need is there for opposing viewpoints?
I have absolute certitude.

Isn't it easy going through life with blinders on?
Never having to question my own thinking?
Never once considering that I might be in the wrong?

 

[Bathead]

is that why you know so little? every time someone says something you disagree with you shut them off? I don't know anyone I agree with 100%.
if I applied your logic I might as well not listen to anyone. Because I am certain that I'm always right. What need is there for opposing viewpoints?
I have absolute certitude.

Isn't it easy going through life with blinders on?
Never having to question my own thinking?
Never once considering that I might be in the wrong?

There's a lot of that going around, Hobo, especially here, on all sides of the political spectrum. Understand, I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in particular.

 

[Hobodeluxe]

There's a lot of that going around, Hobo, especially here, on all sides of the political spectrum. Understand, I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in particular.

there's a difference in thinking you're right and are willing to debate your position on merits and flatly denying any opposing view just because you disagree with some other topic someone posited a view on.

I may disagree with cap and trade too. but that doesn't stop me from hearing someone out on another issue.

I see it a lot here though. people mocking others' opinions with no argument on merits just blanket dismissals.

people who claim to be "independents" or "libertarians" for the most part too.

 

[Marx]

Wow...the news is reporting that this leak could go on for MONTHS if it isn't capped soon!

 

[Kelly]

It is going to go for months, because as of right now there is no way to cap it.

What they should have done immediately was to start a burn off, but the EPA said no to that....they pretty much cut their nose off to spite their face....as usual.

I'm sick, just sick.....I know those waters very well, I dive them.......and the marine life is going to be hit hard....harder than the Valdez in Alaska...

They are working on a dome that they will sink in about 8 to days and then begin sucking the oil onto a ship.

Also, the fact that the government is being forced to make ALL DECISIONS so far, which is ridiculous and slows the process down totally.

 

[Kelly]

It is going to go for months, because as of right now there is no way to cap it.

What they should have done immediately was to start a burn off, but the EPA said no to that....they pretty much cut their nose off to spite their face....as usual.

I'm sick, just sick.....I know those waters very well, I dive them.......and the marine life is going to be hit hard....harder than the Valdez in Alaska...

They are working on a dome that they will sink in about 6 to 8 days and then begin sucking the oil onto a ship.

Also, the fact that the government is forcing BP to make ALL DECISIONS so far, which is ridiculous and slows the process down totally.

 

[Marx]

What makes it even worse than the Exxon Valdez is that there is no way to know how much oil is down there. With the EV, they knew exactly how much the ship was carrying. The gulf coast disaster is an oil field thousands of feet below the ocean floor with no way to measure the amount in the oil field.

 

[SsM]

You can smell it when you walk outside when the wind is blowing our way

 

[Kelly]

What makes it even worse than the Exxon Valdez is that there is no way to know how much oil is down there. With the EV, they knew exactly how much the ship was carrying. The gulf coast disaster is an oil mine thousands of feet the ocean floor with no way to measure.

BP has absolutely no idea how much oil will be lost into the Gulf....and there is no way for them to know. I love how the administration was slamming BP for moving slowly, yet they are having to make ALL DECISIONS as far as in the Gulf, at the leak, the environmental ecosystems near the Louisiana coast, the shrimp fisherman, etc.....BP is having to make the decisions of what to do in all of those areas.....that is just STUPID. They need to focus totally on the leak itself....and NOTHING ELSE, the government needs to focus on the other. I just shake my head at the decision making with this process.

 

[Hobodeluxe]

BP has absolutely no idea how much oil will be lost into the Gulf....and there is no way for them to know. I love how the administration was slamming BP for moving slowly, yet they are having to make ALL DECISIONS as far as in the Gulf, at the leak, the environmental ecosystems near the Louisiana coast, the shrimp fisherman, etc.....BP is having to make the decisions of what to do in all of those areas.....that is just STUPID. They need to focus totally on the leak itself....and NOTHING ELSE, the government needs to focus on the other. I just shake my head at the decision making with this process.

they're forcing them to make all decisions? where did you read that? all I read was that they told them they would be responsible for the costs of the cleanup and the ensuing lawsuits.

 

[Kelly]

For the first 9 days....BP was doing everything, from the clean up, to setting up meetings onshore for people to begin the process of filing insurance for lost business, etc....it was BP that had to ask for the help of the Coast Guard....etc. Had the military stepped in immediately and began a burn off, much of this could have been taken care of, and we would not be looking at the massive amount of oil that we see now.

BP needs to at the moment, focus on shutting off the valve....nothing else.

 

[Anita18]

For the first 9 days....BP was doing everything, from the clean up, to setting up meetings onshore for people to begin the process of filing insurance for lost business, etc....it was BP that had to ask for the help of the Coast Guard....etc. Had the military stepped in immediately and began a burn off, much of this could have been taken care of, and we would not be looking at the massive amount of oil that we see now.

BP needs to at the moment, focus on shutting off the valve....nothing else.

It seems to me that judging from how much oil is coming up, that earlier controlled burn offs wouldn't have really helped that much. They still need to disperse it to burn it, it isn't like taking a match to the entire thing and letting it go.

But yeah...this is going to be tough to watch. Amazing how one mistake could lead to such destruction.

 

[Hobodeluxe]

For the first 9 days....BP was doing everything, from the clean up, to setting up meetings onshore for people to begin the process of filing insurance for lost business, etc....it was BP that had to ask for the help of the Coast Guard....etc. Had the military stepped in immediately and began a burn off, much of this could have been taken care of, and we would not be looking at the massive amount of oil that we see now.

BP needs to at the moment, focus on shutting off the valve....nothing else.

wrong. I don't know where you got that info but it's wrong.

April 20 (10 p.m.): Oil rig explosion. An April 21 ABCNews.com article reported, "An overnight explosion in the Gulf of Mexico rocked the Deepwater Horizon oil rig off the Louisiana coast, sending spectacular bursts of flame into the sky. The fires were still raging today." The U.S. Coast Guard's National Oil and Hazardous Substances Response System assigns primary responsibility for cleaning up oil spills to the spiller as the responsible party.

April 21: Deputy Secretary of Interior, Coast Guard dispatched to region. An April 22 White House statement noted that following a briefing with President Obama, Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano, Coast Guard Commandant Adm. Thad Allen, Department of Interior Secretary Ken Salazar, EPA Deputy Administrator Bob Perciasepe, and FEMA Administrator Craig Fugate, "Deputy Secretary of the Interior David Hayes was dispatched to the region yesterday to assist with coordination and response." The Coast Guard announced that four units were responding to the fire, with additional units en route.
* Search and rescue efforts begin for 11 missing. An initial focus of the response was the search for 11 missing crewmembers. The search was called off April 23.
* BP confirms U.S. Coast Guard was "leading the emergency response" In an April 21 press release, British Petroleum stated that it was "working closely with Transocean and the U.S. Coast Guard, which is leading the emergency response, and had been offering its help - including logistical support."
* CNN.com: "The U.S. Coast Guard launched a major search effort." An April 22 CNN.com article reported:
The U.S. Coast Guard launched a major search effort Wednesday for 11 people missing after a "catastrophic" explosion aboard an oil rig in the Gulf of Mexico engulfed the drilling platform in flames.
Another 17 people were injured -- three critically -- in the blast aboard the Deepwater Horizon, which occurred about 10 p.m. Tuesday. The rig was about 52 miles southeast of Venice, Louisiana, said Coast Guard Senior Chief Petty Officer Mike O'Berry. As of late afternoon Wednesday as many as six firefighting vessels were working to contain the massive fire caused by the explosion.
"It obviously was a catastrophic event," O'Berry said.

April 23: Coast Guard "focused on mitigating the impact of the product currently in the water." On April 23, the Coast Guard stated:
The Department of the Interior, MMS [the U.S. Minerals Management Service], and the Coast Guard continue to support the efforts of the responsible parties to secure all potential sources of pollution. Both federal agencies have technical teams in place overseeing the proposals by BP and Transocean to completely secure the well. Until that has occurred and all parties are confident the risk of additional spill is removed, a high readiness posture to respond will remain in place.
Although the oil appears to have stopped flowing from the well head, Coast Guard, BP, Transocean, and MMS remain focused on mitigating the impact of the product currently in the water and preparing for a worst-case scenario in the event the seal does not hold. Visual feed from deployed remotely operated vehicles with sonar capability is continually monitored in an effort to look for any crude oil which still has the potential to emanate from the subsurface well.
"From what we have observed yesterday and through the night, we are not seeing any signs of release of crude in the subsurface area. However we remain in a 'ready to respond' mode and are working in a collaborative effort with BP, the responsible party, to prepare for a worst-case scenario," Landry stated early Friday morning.

April 25: Response team implements plan to contain oil spilling from source, weather delays cleanup.
* Storms delay response efforts. An April 25 Associated Press article reported, "Stormy weather delayed weekend efforts to mop up leaking oil from a damaged well after the explosion and sinking of a massive rig off Louisiana's Gulf Coast that left 11 workers missing and presumed dead." AP further reported:
The bad weather began rolling in Friday as strong winds, clouds and rain interrupted efforts to contain the spill. Coast Guard Petty Officer John Edwards said he was uncertain when weather conditions would improve enough for cleanup to resume. So far, he said, crews have retrieved about 1,052 barrels of oily water.
* Oil recovery and cleanup were to resume after adverse weather passed. On April 25, the unified command team responding to the spill stated:
The unified command is implementing intervention efforts in an attempt to contain the source of oil emanating from the wellhead at the Deepwater Horizon incident site Sunday.
The unified command has approved a plan that utilizes submersible remote operated vehicles in an effort to activate the blowout preventer on the sea floor and to stop the flow of oil that has been estimated at leaking up to 1,000 barrels/42,000 gallons a day.
Also, BP is mobilizing the DD3, a drilling rig that is expected to arrive Monday to prepare for relief well-drilling operations.
Additionally, the oil recovery and clean-up operations are expected to resume once adverse weather has passed. These efforts are part of the federally approved oil spill contingency plan that is in place to respond to environmental incidents.

April 26: Response crews "to resume skimming operations." On April 26, the response team stated, "Sunday, an aircrew from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service sighted five small whales during an over flight in the vicinity of the oil spill, which currently measures 48 miles by 39 miles at its widest points with varying levels of sheening, and is located 30 miles off the coast of Venice, La." The command team further stated, "Following adverse weather that went through the area, response crews are anticipated to resume skimming operations today," including 1,000 personnel, 10 offshore vessels, 7 skimming boats and more than 14,000 gallons of dispersant. At that point 48,384 gallons of oily water had been collected.

April 28: Federal officials realize spill was far more severe than BP led them to believe. An April 28 New York Times article reported, "Government officials said late Wednesday night that oil might be leaking from a well in the Gulf of Mexico at a rate five times that suggested by initial estimates." The Times further reported:
In a hastily called news conference, Rear Adm. Mary E. Landry of the Coast Guard said a scientist from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration had concluded that oil is leaking at the rate of 5,000 barrels a day, not 1,000 as had been estimated. While emphasizing that the estimates are rough given that the leak is at 5,000 feet below the surface, Admiral Landry said the new estimate came from observations made in flights over the slick, studying the trajectory of the spill and other variables.
An April 30 Associated Press article reported, "For days, as an oil spill spread in the Gulf of Mexico, BP assured the government the plume was manageable, not catastrophic. Federal authorities were content to let the company handle the mess while keeping an eye on the operation." The article continued:
But then government scientists realized the leak was five times larger than they had been led to believe, and days of lulling statistics and reassuring words gave way Thursday to an all-hands-on-deck emergency response. Now questions are sure to be raised about a self-policing system that trusted a commercial operator to take care of its own mishap even as it grew into a menace imperiling Gulf Coast nature and livelihoods from Florida to Texas.

April 29: Napolitano declares spill "of national significance"; BP insists its "plan can handle this spill." On April 29, BP official Doug Suttles appeared on ABC's Good Morning America and stated, "At this point, I believe our plan can handle this spill, and that's what we're doing." That day, Napolitano declared the spill "of national significance," explaining that "we can now draw down assets from across the country, other coastal areas, by way of example; that we will have a centralized communications because the spill is now crossing different regions."
* EPA preparing for oil to hit shore. Environmental Protection Agency Administrator Lisa Jackson commented at an April 29 press briefing: "[A]s the oil does hit the shoreline, EPA will provide support to assess the impacts on the coastal shoreline and play a key role in implementing the cleanup. As a daughter of the Gulf Coast, I know that it is our job to ensure people that we will be eyes and ears working with the states who have valuable and vital resources to monitor air, water and land quality." Jackson also stated that the EPA has deployed air-monitoring aircraft "that is gathering information on the impact of the controlled burn on air quality, both in the area of the burn, and, of course, further away."
* AP: "Air Force sends planes to help with Gulf oil spill." An April 30 Associated Press article reported: "Two Air Force planes have been sent to Mississippi and were awaiting orders to start dumping chemicals on the oil spill threatening the coast, as the government worked Friday to determine how large a role the military should play in the cleanup."
* WSJ: Navy joins Obama's "robust response." An April 30 Wall Street Journal article reported that "The U.S. Navy said it will send more than 12 additional miles of inflatable oil booms to the Gulf, as well as seven towable skimming systems and 50 contractors with experience operating the equipment." The article continued: "The Navy is making two large facilities available to the Coast Guard personnel and BP-employed contractors who are currently taking the lead in fighting the spill. Military officials said the booms and skimmers were being sent to a Naval construction base in Gulfport, Miss. The Navy also opened its air base in Pensacola, Fla., to the effort."

 

[Marx]

OIL SPILL HAS TRIPLED IN THREE DAYS (video included)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/03/oil-spill-tripled-in-size_n_560883.html

...this is horrible. This thing needs to be capped, and quick!

 

[Carcharodon]

I've been working on an environmental blog that covers green news. Do you have a link that talks about natural oil leaks releasing more oil than from drilling? It would help.

I'll try to find it again. Read this a couple of years ago, so no guarantees, but I'll do my best.

 

[Nivek]

All this mess is because of deregulation, and letting BP build a rig without a proper failsafe other countries require. Shameful. i love the Gulf Coast, to see this happen... Trials need to begin immediately, and BP and former administration heads need to be brought to task for this. This will be worse than the Valdez spill...