Discussion: Global Warming and Other Environmental Issues

[Zoken]

I'm arguing that you think there will be more money for poor people if the world's population decreased. That's wrong. I'd estimate that the difference would grow, not shrink.

 

[sinewave]

Common observation. I've never known an atheist or agnostic above the age of 22.

it would be an assumption, in your case, then. there's thousands of atheists over 22. just because you haven't met them doesn't mean they don't exist. besides, not everyone makes their beliefs known to the public.

 

[Steve Rogers]

I'm arguing that you think there will be more money for poor people if the world's population decreased. That's wrong. I'd estimate that the difference would grow, not shrink.

Well, you are now. We were going back and forth about the governement stepping in. Less money to go around in a world with decreased population? That's a good point. You might be right there. But what about goods and resources? Wouldn't there be more to go around if it was going around to a smaller group?

 

[Mysterio]

Common observation. I've never known an atheist or agnostic above the age of 22.

gee, because that's your age group? that was ridiculous thing for you to say.

 

[Zoken]

I'm not talking about inherited wealth as in money. I'm talking about the resources and capital on the planet. Everyone would have more if there were 3 billion people instead of 6 billion people.

Well, you are now. We were going back and forth about the governement stepping in. Less money to go around in a world with decreased population? That's a good point. You might be right there. But what about goods and resources? Wouldn't there be more to go around if it was going around to a smaller group?

When did you change your mind about the money?

And goods and resources? The same people will still be controlling them so why would they?

 

[Steve Rogers]

When did you change your mind about the money?

And goods and resources? The same people will still be controlling them so why would they?

I changed my mind when you said that you think that a decreased population wouldn't help. You make a good point. Could happen.

Does it make much sense for the same people to controll money and goods and resources? I mean, who are they going to sell to? People with no money?

 

[Zoken]

I changed my mind when you said that you think that a decreased population wouldn't help. You make a good point. Could happen.

Does it make much sense for the same people to controll money and goods and resources? I mean, who are they going to sell to? People with no money?

Sell? who says they have to sell? They can lease or rent.

Look, while demand may drive prices down, more than likely a decrease in population will only work in favor of the haves, not the have-nots.

 

[Steve Rogers]

Sell? who says they have to sell? They can lease or rent.

Look, while demand may drive prices down, more than likely a decrease in population will only work in favor of the haves, not the have-nots.

They're going to lease food? So, let's say they lease and rent. Who are they leasing and renting to? People with no money?

 

[Zoken]

They're going to lease food? So, let's say they lease and rent. Who are they leasing and renting to? People with no money?

You ever been to a 3rd world country?

 

[Steve Rogers]

You ever been to a 3rd world country?

Nope.

 

[Zoken]

Then you really don't know what exploitation looks like.

 

[SuBe]

You ever been to a 3rd world country?

I have been to a country of mostly "Have nots". Honduras. But, if you ask the people there, they make 1/10th what I do, Houses sell for more than in Naples FL, and they are happier. This arguement about Haves Vs. Have Nots is only because people are being lead to believe that they need that big screen TV, that iPod, that new car to be happy. Believe me, there are people out there without the money and they have no Media shoving this materialistic crap down their throats, and they are generally happy.

 

[Steve Rogers]

Then you really don't know what exploitation looks like.

Are trying to say that you can't answer my question? I'm lost here...

 

[SuBe]

I have a question that goes along with this Eviromentalist crap, what ever happened to the Ozone hole? It was all the rage in the 80's.

 

[Steve Rogers]

I have a question that goes along with this Eviromentalist crap, what ever happened to the Ozone hole? It was all the rage in the 80's.

Here. This should tell you everything you need to know. http://www.theozonehole.com/

 

[Galactus]

Weather Records Set in 2007
By The Associated Press

posted: 29 December 2007 08:49 pm ET

WASHINGTON (AP) — When the calendar turned to 2007, the heat went on and the weather just got weirder. January was the warmest first month on record worldwide — 1.53 degrees above normal. It was the first time since record-keeping began in 1880 that the globe's average temperature has been so far above the norm for any month of the year. And as 2007 drew to a close, it was also shaping up to be the hottest year on record in the Northern Hemisphere.

U.S. weather stations broke or tied 263 all-time high temperature records, according to an Associated Press analysis of U.S. weather data. England had the warmest April in 348 years of record-keeping there, shattering the record set in 1865 by more than 1.1 degrees Fahrenheit.

It wasn't just the temperature. There were other oddball weather events. A tornado struck New York City in August, inspiring the tabloid headline: "This ain't Kansas!''

In the Middle East, an equally rare cyclone spun up in June, hitting Oman and Iran. Major U.S. lakes shrank; Atlanta had to worry about its drinking water supply. South Africa got its first significant snowfall in 25 years. And on Reunion Island, 400 miles east of Africa, nearly 155 inches of rain fell in three days — a world record for the most rain in 72 hours.

Individual weather extremes can't be attributed to global warming, scientists always say. However, "it's the run of them and the different locations'' that have the mark of man-made climate change, said top European climate expert Phil Jones, director of the climate research unit at the University of East Anglia in England.

Worst of all — at least according to climate scientists — the Arctic, which serves as the world's refrigerator, dramatically warmed in 2007, shattering records for the amount of melting ice.

2007 seemed to be the year that climate change shook the thermometers, and those who warned that it was beginning to happen were suddenly honored. Former Vice President Al Gore's documentary "An Inconvenient Truth'' won an Oscar and he shared the Nobel Peace Prize with the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, an international group of thousands of scientists. The climate panel, organized by the United Nations, released four major reports in 2007 saying man-made global warming was incontrovertible and an urgent threat to millions of lives.

Through the first 10 months, it was the hottest year recorded on land and the third hottest when ocean temperatures are included.

Smashing records was common, especially in August. At U.S. weather stations, more than 8,000 new heat records were set or tied for specific August dates.

More remarkably that same month, more than 100 all-time temperature records were tied or broken — regardless of the date — either for the highest reading or the warmest low temperature at night. By comparison only 14 all-time low temperatures were set or tied all year long, as of early December, according to records kept by the National Climatic Data Center.

For example, on Aug. 10, the town of Portland, Tenn., reached 102 degrees, tying a record for the hottest it ever had been. On Aug. 16, it hit 103 and Portland had a new all-time record. But that record was broken again the next day when the mercury reached 105.

Daily triple-digit temperatures took a toll on everybody, public safety director George West recalled. The state had 15 heat-related deaths in August.

Portland was far from alone. In Idaho, Chilly Barton Flat wasn't living up to its name. The weather station in central Idaho tied an all-time high of 100 on July 26, Aug. 7, 14 and 19. During 2007, weather stations in 35 states, from Washington to Florida, set or tied all-time heat records in 2007.

Across Europe this past summer, extreme heat waves killed dozens of people.

And it wasn't just the heat. It was the rain. There was either too little or too much.

More than 60 percent of the United States was either abnormally dry or suffering from drought at one point in August. In November, Atlanta's main water source, Lake Lanier, shrank to an all-time low. Lake Okeechobee, crucial to south Florida, hit its lowest level in recorded history in May, exposing muck and debris not seen for decades. Lake Superior, the biggest and deepest of the Great Lakes, dropped to its lowest August and September levels in history.

Los Angeles hit its driest year on record. Lakes fed by the Colorado River and which help supply water for more than 20 million Westerners, were only half full.

Australia, already a dry continent, suffered its worst drought in a century, making global warming an election issue. On the other extreme, record rains fell in China, England and Wales.

Minnesota got the worst of everything: a devastating June and July drought followed by record August rainfall. In one March day, Southern California got torrential downpours, hail, snow and fierce winds. Then in the fall came devastating fires driven by Santa Ana winds.

And yet none of those events worried scientists as much as what was going on in the Arctic in the summer. Sea ice melted not just to record levels, but far beyond the previous melt record. The Northwest Passage was the most navigable it had been in modern times. Russia planted a flag on the seabed under the North Pole, claiming sovereignty.

The ice sheets that cover a portion of Greenland retreated to an all-time low and permafrost in Alaska warmed to record levels.

Meteorologists have chronicled strange weather years for more than a decade, but nothing like 2007. It was such an extreme weather year that the World Meteorological Organization put out a news release chronicling all the records and unusual developments. That was in August with more than 145 sizzling days to go.

Get used to it, scientists said. As man-made climate change continues, the world will experience more extreme weather, bursts of heat, torrential rain and prolonged drought, they said.

"We're having an increasing trend of odd years,'' said Michael MacCracken, a former top federal climate scientist, now chief scientist at the Climate Institute in Washington. "Pretty soon odd years are going to become the norm.''

 

[Red Mask]

I pray more people will do something about this next year.

 

[Zoken]

I pray that there will be willing to intelligently suggest realistic solutions to ACTUAL problems.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

I pray that there will be willing to intelligently suggest realistic solutions to ACTUAL problems.

climate change IS an actual problem.

 

[Zoken]

Show me a consistant trend of the weather becoming progressively hotter each year.from whenever they stopped believing in Global Cooling until now.

 

[Metamorpho1977]

I'm telling you it's polar bears, look what they did to this one.

and this one was caught in the act.

 

[Metamorpho1977]

But seriously, geological evidence shows that the ice caps melted once before in the history of our planet, that was before the last ice age, so if we just hold out, things will get back to normal.

 

[Red Mask]

But seriously, geological evidence shows that the ice caps melted once before in the history of our planet, that was before the last ice age, so if we just hold out, things will get back to normal.

When?

 

[luke1234]

um global warming is real

 

[Red Mask]

No friggin' d'uh.