Discussion: Global Warming and Other Environmental Issues

[Memphis Slim]

ERROR 5​

Snows of Kilimanjaro "melting"
​

Gore says “global warming” has been melting the snows of Mount Kilimanjaro in Africa. It is not.

The melting of the Furtwangler Glacier at the summit of the mountain began 125 years ago. More of the glacier had melted before Hemingway wrote The Snows of Kilimanjaro in 1936 than afterward.

Temperature at the summit never rises above freezing and is at an average of –7 Celsius. The cause of the melting is long-term climate shifts exacerbated by imprudent regional deforestation, and has nothing to do with “global warming.”

Ms. Kreider says, “Every tropical glacier for which we have documented evidence shows that glaciers are retreating.” However, a recent survey of the glaciers in the tropical Andes shows that they were largely ice-free in the past 10,000 years, except on the very highest peaks. The mere fact of warming or melting, therefore, tells us nothing of the cause.

Ms. Kreider says, “Global warming exacerbates the stresses that ecosystems (and humans) are already experiencing.” However, since the temperature at the summit of Kilimanjaro remains below freezing and has not risen in 30 years, “global warming” is not “exacerbating the stresses” at the summit of Kilimanjaro.

ERROR 6​

Lake Chad "drying up"​

Gore says “global warming” dried up Lake Chad in Africa. It did not. Over-extraction of water and changing agricultural patterns dried the lake, which was also dry in 8500BC, 5500BC, 1000BC and 100BC. Ms. Kreider says, “There are multiple stresses upon Lake Chad.” However, the scientific consensus is that at present those “stresses” do not include “global warming.”

 

[Memphis Slim]

All of this and MORE!! And he says the debate is over???

 

[Carcharodon]

All of this and MORE!! And he says the debate is over???

It's pretty well known that he's made errors, and that much of what he said is debatable. I'm not sure where you're going with this. It seems to me as though you think that proving that Gore made errors somehow proves that global warming being caused by human activities is a myth...which is actually sort of funny, in a sad way.

 

[The Lizard]

A well-established tree very close to the Maldivian shoreline and only inches above sea level was recently uprooted by Australian environmentalists anxious to destroy this visible proof that sea level cannot have risen very far.

If this is true, it's pretty funny. Environmentalists killing a tree to strengthen the argument that the environment has been damaged. t:

 

[Mr Sparkle]

anyone else amused by the fact that Celldog thinks that Climate change hinges on Al Gore's movie?

 

[Zoken]

meh...

 

[Mr Sparkle]

youh?

 

[Zoken]

I just hink it's ridiculous that we need psuedo-science espoused by Al Gore before we realize things do need to be cleaned up. We have enough decent reasons to change without Global Warming/ Climate Change.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

but, that's the thing.
this is not something Al Gore made, nor was it something that was only brought to the forefront because of Al Gore.
the science was there before the film and so was the debate, people like Celldog decided they were against it the minute that a Democrat decided to crusade for that particular cause, nobody in the republican base gave a crap about it before, because for whatever reason, maybe practical reasons, republicans haven't exactly been friends to the environment ( nor have Democrats for that matter, Gore and others battled their own party most of the time) but NOW that the issue is pretty well covered all these people become scientists overnight, when before they couldn't give a crap about it.
I have studied a related field for almost 12 years and even back in the 90's the influence of Man on the environment is a given, we were shown the examples of an industrialized England and the steps they had to take to bring themselves back from a pretty grim situation.
and that was a while ago.
Man DOES impact the environment, that's obvious, because you just need to look at a field, and then look at a city and realize the impact, and Gore is nowhere to be found on the equation.

 

[Zoken]

Gore brought out his over blown predictions to a movie as if they were gospel/hard-science.

And I don't dislike Gore because he's a Democrate, but because he's a politician. Not to mention the fact that those democrats he "battles" include himself. he doesn't live within the same guidelines he gives others.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Gore brought out his over blown predictions to a movie as if they were gospel/hard-science.

And I don't dislike Gore because he's a Democrate, but because he's a politician. Not to mention the fact that those democrats he "battles" include himself. he doesn't live within the same guidelines he gives others.

of course he did, Ron Paul has thousands of drooling fans and when he outright lied about a superhighway cutting a path of destruction through the US no one batted an eyelash, besides you make it sound as if the movie was completely fabricated even though it's NOT

plus, on how he "doesn't live by the same standards he tells others to" it has been addressed time and time again that it's not just his house, but his office. why does this stick in everyone's craw?
he is a spokesman and like him or not, his cause happens to be very real.

 

[SuBe]

Global Warmers make this whole argument sound like a religion.

Earth=Soul
Carbon Emmisions=Sin
Carbon Credits=Attonement/Repentance

If you dont believe in it, you are "in denile", "Stupid", a "Moron", or "Blind". You can't convice anybody that doesn't want to believe it. Either for it, or against it. In some religous agruements, you have already sinned before you were born, you have to make up for it. In some Global Warming agruements, you have released Carbon Emmission before you were born. Either way, we all are doomed to hell if we don't believe in it. Fiery Earth, or Fire and Brimstone.

Funny the parrells.

 

[Zoken]

actually "Carbon Credits" would be more like... well tokens to "sin". "You can only sin this much" so your argument falls apart a bit.

 

[Carcharodon]

Global Warmers make this whole argument sound like a religion.

Earth=Soul
Carbon Emmisions=Sin
Carbon Credits=Attonement/Repentance

If you dont believe in it, you are "in denile", "Stupid", a "Moron", or "Blind". You can't convice anybody that doesn't want to believe it. Either for it, or against it. In some religous agruements, you have already sinned before you were born, you have to make up for it. In some Global Warming agruements, you have released Carbon Emmission before you were born. Either way, we all are doomed to hell if we don't believe in it. Fiery Earth, or Fire and Brimstone.

Funny the parrells.

A religion isn't backed by scientific evidence. G.W. is.

You make an interesting point regarding: "In some religous agruements, you have already sinned before you were born, you have to make up for it. In some Global Warming agruements, you have released Carbon Emmission before you were born."

The thing is, with Carbon emissions it's less about personal responsibility and more about what you could call, "the system." In this day and age, we're born into an economic infrastructure that almost requires you to be responsible for at least some Carbon emissions. It's hard to get many places without the use of some form of polluting transportation. That's not to mention the necessity in our culture of electricity/energy use in general.

I dunno. That is sort of an interesting parallel.

 

[SuBe]

actually "Carbon Credits" would be more like... well tokens to "sin". "You can only sin this much" so your argument falls apart a bit.

Well, I was trying my best.

 

[SuBe]

A religion isn't backed by scientific evidence. G.W. is.
...
I dunno. That is sort of an interesting parallel.

But, the effects of that evidence is still debatable. So, it is still just a theory.

 

[Red Mask]

But, the effects of that evidence is still debatable. So, it is still just a theory.

But religion is blind IGNORANCE. Science works to explain what's happening around us. Religion hasn't explained what's happening to the environment. The campaign against global warming isn't a gospel.

 

[Bubonic]

Why does the religious right have to be so damned stubborn with everything they are programmed to lobby against?

I guess there is a belief that reason is the tool of the devil, set in place to raise doubt... What a beautiful scam I must admit... They knew they were blowing smoke up peoples asses from the get go, so why not convince them that looking too deep into things is somehow immoral.

Oh and I know climate change is not a religious issue, at least it wasn't meant to be, its in everyones best interest to promote sustainability, you know, so your little brainwashed monkey spawn grandchildren may have a fighting chance of corrupting the minds of their own seed?

And get the **** off the Gore angle, I say **** Gore as well for promoting himself in his damn documentary, he should of stuck to the issues and not have made it a PR thing.

But regardless, he brought attention to something that needed to be highlighted, and it is NOT a political issue... It's a SURVIVAL issue.

Why why why must you stick your damn heads up your asses? Figure its not up to us to make changes, its all in GODS hands anyways? No... No it ****ing isn't, stop putting responsibility for everything on your overblown myth, think for your damn selves, do some research or something, stop being the sheep your all so proud of being.

What the **** is wrong with you people? Waiting for a "Great Flood" to get your asses moving? Hah, might not be that improbable.

 

[chaseter]

Scientists have already confirmed periods of natural cooling and warming.....That's nature!! It's okay.....Oh....and guess what?? Those trees and plants live on CO2.

I know the trees and plants live on CO2...but we live on oxygen. What converts the CO2 into O2 through photsynthesis...PLANTS

We have had periods of cooling and warming, but people weren't the cause of it...now we are. What would be better, ignoring the signs and living in an Ice Age or fixing the problem and continuing on how we are


Here is my original post:

Even if Global warming wasn't currently happening, wouldn't it be smart to investigate it? All these people, all these cars, all the CO2, the depletion of trees and plants that convert the CO2 into O2, all the environmental contamination, etc...is doing something to this planet.

No, I did not know trees and plants live on CO2

 

[The Lizard]

you are "in denile",

Dat's a river in Egypt. Nyuk, nyuk!

 

[Memphis Slim]

Why does the religious right have to be so damned stubborn with everything they are programmed to lobby against?

I guess there is a belief that reason is the tool of the devil, set in place to raise doubt... What a beautiful scam I must admit... They knew they were blowing smoke up peoples asses from the get go, so why not convince them that looking too deep into things is somehow immoral.

Oh and I know climate change is not a religious issue, at least it wasn't meant to be, its in everyones best interest to promote sustainability, you know, so your little brainwashed monkey spawn grandchildren may have a fighting chance of corrupting the minds of their own seed?

And get the **** off the Gore angle, I say **** Gore as well for promoting himself in his damn documentary, he should of stuck to the issues and not have made it a PR thing.

But regardless, he brought attention to something that needed to be highlighted, and it is NOT a political issue... It's a SURVIVAL issue.

Why why why must you stick your damn heads up your asses? Figure its not up to us to make changes, its all in GODS hands anyways? No... No it ****ing isn't, stop putting responsibility for everything on your overblown myth, think for your damn selves, do some research or something, stop being the sheep your all so proud of being.

What the **** is wrong with you people? Waiting for a "Great Flood" to get your asses moving? Hah, might not be that improbable.

Dude! There are plenty of people who believe Gore is full of it! Don't bring make this thread a soap box to bash christians. Stick to the point.

 

[Bill]

Dude! There are plenty of people who believe Gore is full of it! Don't bring make this thread a soap box to bash christians. Stick to the point.

The point is that the most vocal opponents of the idea of human caused global warming are conservative republicans, of which the vast majority are Christians.

The past 20 years has seen Ozone Layer depletion(remember that 80's alum?) reach a point where laws were passed governing the release of ozone depleting chemicals. The NOAA(National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration) seems to be taking the idea of human caused Global Warming quite seriously, so this isn't merely a political weapon. There seems to be at least some scientific merit as per their quote:

"Human activity has been increasing the concentration of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere (mostly carbon dioxide from combustion of coal, oil, and gas; plus a few other trace gases). There is no scientific debate on this point. Pre-industrial levels of carbon dioxide (prior to the start of the Industrial Revolution) were about 280 parts per million by volume (ppmv), and current levels are about 370 ppmv. The concentration of CO2 in our atmosphere today, has not been exceeded in the last 420,000 years, and likely not in the last 20 million years. According to the IPCC Special Report on Emission Scenarios (SRES), by the end of the 21st century, we could expect to see carbon dioxide concentrations of anywhere from 490 to 1260 ppm (75-350% above the pre-industrial concentration)."

It would seem to me that the "debate" is from corporate yes men who simply don't want to look for alternative ways of keeping pollution out of the air because of possible expense. So they distribute counter-propaganda which sounds "scientific." And people, like you, lap it up because you are conservative republican America and this is what you're supposed to support and believe. You wouldn't be a good little conservative republican American otherwise.

At some point, possibly when glacial melt is pooling around your ankles, you're going to have to come to the realization that maybe all that scientific data pointing to human caused Global Warming has some merit after all.

 

[Anguissette1979]

Gore dances the fine line between politician (lobbyist, really) and celebrity now. We don't bat an eyelash about celebrities being self-promoting I'm not saying it's a good thing, but cut the guy some slack

Whether or not the earth is getting warmer on average is not in debate. It is KNOWN. What is not KNOWN is how much of an impact the industrial revolution and the 170 odd years since it began have impacted, accelerated, or exacerbated this change.

Will we reach a higher global temperature peak?
Will we reach the normal global temperature peak but at a faster rate?
Will it be some sort of combination of the two?

We don't know. All we can do it try to mitigate the effects we KNOW that humans are having (producing more greenhouse gases than there were pre-Industrial Revolution, etc...).

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Global Warmers make this whole argument sound like a religion.

Earth=Soul
Carbon Emmisions=Sin
Carbon Credits=Attonement/Repentance

If you dont believe in it, you are "in denile", "Stupid", a "Moron", or "Blind". You can't convice anybody that doesn't want to believe it. Either for it, or against it. In some religous agruements, you have already sinned before you were born, you have to make up for it. In some Global Warming agruements, you have released Carbon Emmission before you were born. Either way, we all are doomed to hell if we don't believe in it. Fiery Earth, or Fire and Brimstone.

Funny the parrells.

no, you happen to be making an innacurate parallel.
see, with religion you have to have faith in what people tell you, in the stories they give you, and you must do so without asking for evidence.
I'm going to be honest with you, if 80% of the world scientists had Proof, concrete proof and studies that there is INFACT a God.
I'd pray daily.
but there isn't is it? there's no scientific proof of God or Gods for that matter, so your religion argument falls appart right there.
plus, it sounds more like you joined a cult, were people who don't agree with you fit into little niches and even have a cute easy to remember name like " global warmers " , it's almost unnaceptable how you in this case choose to ignore scientific evidence.
that's what's " stupid " on your side of the argument, not that you refuse to " believe" because no " belief" is involved, that's why you are in denial.
because simply put, when you cling to a dissenting opinion, one that's marginal in the scientific community, you are either of two things.
a.- a maverick, whose findings will be hailed as visionary and " before your time"
b.- wrong
but , since the earth is running out of Oil, the effect of certain man made chemicals on earth is proven ( CFCs remember?) and the impact of man on a given environment is a FACT, not made up, not belief but a FACT it's terribly ignorant to assume that climate change " isn't happening" because you don't like the people involved in it.
seriously, the changes involved, the stuff that you can do RIGHT NOW to help the environment is actually really simple, it baffles me how people can complain that " the global warmers want me to spend money " when you already spend money for stuff you don't need.
it's not about spending money, not about that at all, there will be a component to that but there's changes that can be made by you and others to actually aid in having a better environment.
side effects?
cleaner air from lesser amounts of pollution, healthier populace, less traffic, more open spaces and green areas.

wow, how distopian.
why you choose to ignore the evidence is beyond me, it's really baffling that most of the people here taling about how this doesn't exist are in other threads talking about " personal responsibility" that's just odd to me.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Dude! There are plenty of people who believe Gore is full of it! Don't bring make this thread a soap box to bash christians. Stick to the point.

and again, Gore didn't create the theory, nor does the theory and evidence rest on the credibility of Gore.
how about YOU stick to the point, and stop trying to deviate from it by talking strictly about a Movie Gore made.