Discussion: Global Warming and Other Environmental Issues

[Carcharodon]

care to explain how that would be caused by warming?

I don't think that particular pattern could be explained via warning. The point, however indirect it may have been, is that rapid warming (rapid on a geologic scale) would likely lead to highly irregular and potentially severe weather patterns.

The primary source of power for weather systems (hurricanes, for example) actually comes from heat energy from evaporated water...notably, from our oceans. The reason for regularity in global weather systems comes from the relative stability of the energy absorbed/released via those water systems. This, in turn, stems from certain molecular properties of water (i.e., hydrogen bonding and the resultant high heat capacity).

Even with water's high heat capacity, enough added heat energy will cause a massive influx of energy to said weather systems, and then we could see some strange patterns pretty easily.

Hell, the El Nino phenomenon is the result of anomalous pockets of warm water. It's the engine that drives these things, as we understand them. In addition to these strange patters, we could even see a pretty large shift in the distribution of common weather types. Areas that commonly suffer from drought could see nearly unprecedented rainfall (flooding), and areas that are commonly temperate with high precipitation could see droughts.

I'm no meteorologist or climatologist, but with a basic grasp of these mechanisms people could see pretty easily the potential problems (not to mention instability) this can cause for us.

 

[Lighthouse]

I'm starting to understand why environmentalists are trying to call it climate change now. I can't tell you how many times I've heard from people who think global warming is BS because we recently had a really cold winter. It always makes me sad for their stupidity.

 

[chaseter]

^Indeed

 

[chaseter]

I personally cannot wait for the polar ice caps to melt, flood the low lying islands like the Maldeves, cause an increase in tropical storms, allow for tropical diseases to move further North, and for the severity of storms to increase like tornados and flash floods. Global Warming is such a stupid thing to call it...like us common folk can understand that crap.

 

[Carcharodon]

I personally cannot wait for the polar ice caps to melt, flood the low lying islands like the Maldeves, cause an increase in tropical storms, allow for tropical diseases to move further North, and for the severity of storms to increase like tornados and flash floods. Global Warming is such a stupid thing to call it...like us common folk can understand that crap.

I'm guilty of that myself from time to time. It's just a buzz-word that both sides have latched on to. They can argue semantics all they want, it's pretty futile.

 

[chaseter]

I'm guilty of that myself from time to time. It's just a buzz-word that both sides have latched on to. They can argue semantics all they want, it's pretty futile.

I was being sarcastic...the Earth is warming on a global scale. Carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas that traps the sun's heat radiation instead of allowing it to diffuse back out into space. Therfore, the globe is literally warming. People are idiots IMO that think global warming is a myth

 

[Carcharodon]

I was being sarcastic...the Earth is warming on a global scale. Carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas that traps the sun's heat radiation instead of allowing it to diffuse back out into space. Therfore, the globe is literally warming. People are idiots IMO that think global warming is a myth

Well, there's certainly nothing wrong with skepticism. It's encouraged among the scientific community. There's an extreme difference between skepticism and denial, however.

People are scared of the economic change this would entail for us, for us to adjust to clean energy. I honestly believe that's the basis for the current atmosphere of denial. There are people who have an invested interest in it being false, and their agenda is fairly transparent.

That's not to say that the climate change theory advocates (Gore, for example) don't have agendas at all, though.

 

[Lighthouse]

That's not to say that the climate change theory advocates (Gore, for example) don't have agendas at all, though.

Thats the big problem though. The agenda doesn't make the statement any less true. I remember when right-wingers pointed to Gore's use of electricity and flying airplanes with tons of gas. All I could think was "How does that change anything about the perception of global warming?" It doesn't. Its classic ad hominem.

 

[Tron5000]

Great article on several prominent scientists who were once believers in man-made global warming, but have reversed their positions based on their own research and experiences.

http://www.speroforum.com/site/article.asp?idarticle=9469

"Following the U.S. Senate's vote today on a global warming measure, there is a shift taking place in climate science. Many former believers in catastrophic man-made global warming have recently reversed themselves and are now climate skeptics. The names below are just a sampling of the prominent scientists who have spoken out recently to oppose the perceived alarmism of man-made global warming.

"The media's climate fear factor seemingly grows louder even as the latest science grows less and less alarming by the day. It is also worth noting that the proponents of climate fears are increasingly attempting to suppress dissent by skeptics."


Follow the link above to check out the entire article and list.

 

[Carcharodon]

Thats the big problem though. The agenda doesn't make the statement any less true. I remember when right-wingers pointed to Gore's use of electricity and flying airplanes with tons of gas. All I could think was "How does that change anything about the perception of global warming?" It doesn't. Its classic ad hominem.

Agreed, I was just trying to be balanced in my observation. The thing is, though, there is a lot of hype surrounding climate change. I wouldn't put it past somebody invested in the idea to hype it up a bit.

Gore's film was found to have more than a few inaccuracies, not to mention a few exaggerations. That's my entire point, really. Listening to these people on either side is a bad idea, especially if they're your sole source of information on the subject.

There's his message, there's their message, and somewhere in-between is the truth.

 

[Danalys]

There's his message, there's their message, and somewhere in-between is the truth.

that's a fairly commen logical falacy. you were doing so brilliantly aswell.

 

[Carcharodon]

that's a fairly commen logical falacy. you were doing so brilliantly aswell.

Oh, so there weren't exaggerations and inaccuracies in Gore's flim? There weren't overstatements?

I just happen to think that there are people heavily invested in both sides of what should be a debate among scientists. I'm of the opinion that the truth can always be skewed in that situation.

I think global warming is very real. Don't get me wrong. I'm simply a (universal) skepticist.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

I think global warming is very real. Don't get me wrong. I'm simply a (universal) skepticist.

but, why is it important what Gore says anyway?
wasn't global warming an issue before him?
and the people that are convinced it's a " hoax" they will be convinced reagrdless of scientific evidence, because it's not about evidence, it's about
"belief" for them, like religion.

what's the point either way.

I remember when I watched " The Queen" and all the people were insisting that they " lower the flag" for the death of princess Diana,
when it was not a flag, and it had never been at half mast.
it's kind of the same deal here.

 

[Carcharodon]

but, why is it important what Gore says anyway?
wasn't global warming an issue before him?

My point exactly.

 

[Metamorpho1977]

I'm telling you, the arctic isn't melting. It's all the polar bears licking the salt off the glaciers.

 

[Carcharodon]

I'm telling you, the arctic isn't melting. It's all the polar bears licking the salt off the glaciers.

****ing bears, always making it harder on themselves.

 

[Metamorpho1977]

Carcharodon, that avatar is the number one reason why I'll never go into the ocean. I'm terrified of sharks.

 

[Carcharodon]

Carcharodon, that avatar is the number one reason why I'll never go into the ocean. I'm terrified of sharks.

Yeah, getting hit by a two ton, 20-foot fish at 25 mph teeth-first probably wouldn't be too fun.

Then again...

 

[Memphis Slim]

Mr. Sparkie:
but, why is it important what Gore says anyway?
wasn't global warming an issue before him?
and the people that are convinced it's a " hoax" they will be convinced reagrdless of scientific evidence, because it's not about evidence, it's about
"belief" for them, like religion.

Are you serious?? Where do you think this hysteria started?? Who just got a Nobel Prize for being an "authority" on this issue?? Who said "the debate is over", when he's never debated anyone? Al B Gore, that's who. Don't try to deminish this guy's role in this craziness. Warming may have been a small issue among some before Gore. But he's made himself the Kingpin now and made this a major issue. Now our kids are scared that the planet is gonna blow up!

 

[Superhobo]

Are you serious?? Where do you think this hysteria started?? Who just got a Nobel Prize for being an "authority" on this issue?? Who said "the debate is over", when he's never debated anyone? Al B Gore, that's who. Don't try to deminish this guy's role in this craziness. Warming may have been a small issue among some before Gore. But he's made himself the Kingpin now and made this a major issue. Now our kids are scared that the planet is gonna blow up!

Holy geez. It was a 'small issue?'

He's a 'kingpin?'

And, wait. Who's telling their kid's that the planet's 'gonna blow up?'

Are YOU serious?

 

[Danalys]

Oh, so there weren't exaggerations and inaccuracies in Gore's flim? There weren't overstatements?

I just happen to think that there are people heavily invested in both sides of what should be a debate among scientists. I'm of the opinion that the truth can always be skewed in that situation.

I think global warming is very real. Don't get me wrong. I'm simply a (universal) skepticist.

i've never seen it. my point wasn't about it's accuracy or not.

 

[Carcharodon]

i've never seen it. my point wasn't about it's accuracy or not.

Then how can you say my statement was a logical fallacy? That was practically the basis of the statement to begin with.

 

[Danalys]

Are you serious?? Where do you think this hysteria started?? Who just got a Nobel Prize for being an "authority" on this issue?? Who said "the debate is over", when he's never debated anyone? Al B Gore, that's who. Don't try to deminish this guy's role in this craziness. Warming may have been a small issue among some before Gore. But he's made himself the Kingpin now and made this a major issue. Now our kids are scared that the planet is gonna blow up!

he got the peace prize for spreading the message not for being an authority. the debate that was over was a debate he was never part of. the only difference gore's made for me is that now i read you bringing up his name every gloabal warming/climate change thread, were as previously i didn't.

 

[Danalys]

Then how can you say my statement was a logical fallacy? That was practically the basis of the statement to begin with.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_ground

 

[Carcharodon]

Are you serious?? Where do you think this hysteria started?? Who just got a Nobel Prize for being an "authority" on this issue?? Who said "the debate is over", when he's never debated anyone? Al B Gore, that's who. Don't try to deminish this guy's role in this craziness. Warming may have been a small issue among some before Gore. But he's made himself the Kingpin now and made this a major issue. Now our kids are scared that the planet is gonna blow up!

Excuse me? You know, if you want to wallow in ignorance, that's fine. Just don't go pointing fingers at the same time.

The fact of the matter is that this was a big deal before Gore came along among the scientific community. The only difference was the politicization and the popularization.

"Small issue among some?" This had been one of the most widely studied phenomenon among environmental scientists long before Gore came around.