Discussion: Global Warming and Other Environmental Issues

[SuBe]

That was during the Dark Ages when free speech was quashed because the church wanted The Tree of Knowledge burned to the ground so they could control the world with their religion.

Maybe, today the Scientists want more funding from the Government, so they keep altering their Data. Maybe Politicans realized this is an easy way to gain more control over the populace, then jumped on board with it. Maybe, Government figured out that this is a great way to Tax people more, and get more money for Pet Projects.

 

[The Senator]

And there was a time when "94%" of scientists thought the Sun revolved around the earth.

I'm just saying, we can have cleaner fuel, alternative fuels, what have you. But, to say that Global Warming is the reason to have these is wrong. We need them because, like Car said, we will be running out of Fuel. Let's be honest about it. Not Scare-Monger people.

Okay, so, because YOU don't believe there is a climate problem, we should "be honest" and say that no problem exists, even though the vast majority of scientists agree that there is such a problem?

As for the sun revolving around the earth... I'd like to think we as a species have come a long way since then, considering we have, you know, TECHNOLOGY and SCIENTIFIC MODELS which can prove or disprove this.

 

[The Senator]

Maybe, today the Scientists want more funding from the Government, so they keep altering their Data. Maybe Politicans realized this is an easy way to gain more control over the populace, then jumped on board with it. Maybe, Government figured out that this is a great way to Tax people more, and get more money for Pet Projects.

Yeah, that's it, the problem only exists because the government wants to tax people.

Just like we want universal health care, because we want to tax people, or social security, because we want to tax people. There's no real problem at hand, just the desire to tax.

 

[Franklin Richards]

It's real hard to "alter data" in the modern world. Science works because of the intellectual discourse that is present in the Scientific Method.

You can't just alter data and expect it to fly in the modern world of science.

 

[Carcharodon]

And there was a time when "94%" of scientists thought the Sun revolved around the earth.

I should have handled this in the last post, but whatever, here's a new one.

Do I honestly have to explain to you why these so-called "scientists" believed that to be the case? I can tell you right here and now that it had nothing to do with scientific evidence, except for the observation that the sun moves through the sky.

People believed this because that's what it said in the Bible, not because it was evidenced in any way. That's really the difference.

 

[sinewave]

Maybe, today the Scientists want more funding from the Government, so they keep altering their Data. Maybe Politicans realized this is an easy way to gain more control over the populace, then jumped on board with it. Maybe, Government figured out that this is a great way to Tax people more, and get more money for Pet Projects.

man, it gets harder and harder to take you seriously. just when i think you're a reasonable person you come up with these ridiculous conspiracy theories. i've never see someone so obsessed with taxes. are you secretly grover nordquist?

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Global warming is a myth, we as a planet should stop wasting money on stupid schemes to cut carbon emmisions. The whole planet is skint enough as it is, we shouldn't be wasting money on hair brained theories.

And anyway isn't it true that everytime a volcano erupts it puts out more gases than the whole human race?

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Global warming is a myth, we as a planet should stop wasting money on stupid schemes to cut carbon emmisions. The whole planet is skint enough as it is, we shouldn't be wasting money on hair brained theories.

And anyway isn't it true that everytime a volcano erupts it puts out more gases than the whole human race?

 

[Carcharodon]

Global warming is a myth, we as a planet should stop wasting money on stupid schemes to cut carbon emmisions. The whole planet is skint enough as it is, we shouldn't be wasting money on hair brained theories.

And anyway isn't it true that everytime a volcano erupts it puts out more gases than the whole human race?

Carbon emissions have effects beyond climate change, and their reduction would be to the benefit of our environment (and economy, as a matter of interest).

 

[Ace of Knaves]

How will it benefit our economy? We are spending billions of pounds or dollars a year or some theory that hasn't and cannot be proved. Where is the sense in that? There is much more important things to be improving and paying for.

 

[The Senator]

How will it benefit our economy? We are spending billions of pounds or dollars a year or some theory that hasn't and cannot be proved. Where is the sense in that? There is much more important things to be improving and paying for.

Read "Hot, Flat and Crowded" by Thomas Friedman, and "The Green Collar Economy" by Van Jones. Then argue to us that expanding the green collar industry won't benefit the economy...

 

[Carcharodon]

How will it benefit our economy? We are spending billions of pounds or dollars a year or some theory that hasn't and cannot be proved. Where is the sense in that? There is much more important things to be improving and paying for.

I guess I'm gonna have to explain this to you in the simplest terms possible.

Technological breakthroughs intended for mass use and distribution would open up new markets. There will be need of trained professionals AND a labor workforce to research, enhance, produce and distribute said technology.

Now you have:

1) A new array of products and technologies with which money can be made (and saved!).

2) MOAR JOBS!!!1!!!!111!!!!one!!!!

This isn't a field that's limited in its technological applications. The places we could go with energy advances are nearly limitless.

We've seen it before and we'll see it again.

EDIT:

One more thing: I think you're woefully unaware of how much of science is based in theory. These theories have led to countless technologies that you take for granted every single day, technologies that are based upon the application of said theories and principles. Almost all of science is merely a "theory." (I won't go into a debate over law vs. theory, because it's a bit subjective and I really don't WANT to get into it).

 

[The Senator]

Global warming is a myth, we as a planet should stop wasting money on stupid schemes to cut carbon emmisions. The whole planet is skint enough as it is, we shouldn't be wasting money on hair brained theories.

And anyway isn't it true that everytime a volcano erupts it puts out more gases than the whole human race?

Yeah, and I take it it's also a myth that we are running out of natural resources and that many of our products waste energy, so we have no reason to actually do anything about that?

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Look i'm not saying we shouldn't try to find new fuels or ways to power things, i'm just saying Global Warming itself hasn't been proved to be caused by us in my eyes.

 

[The Senator]

Look i'm not saying we shouldn't try to find new fuels or ways to power things, i'm just saying Global Warming itself hasn't been proved to be caused by us in my eyes.

I take it your eyes have never read any scientific reports stating that climate change is a man made problem, then, considering these reports do exist en masse...

 

[Franklin Richards]

Well thank goodness the Scientific community recognizes it.


You're not a scientist are you?

 

[Ace of Knaves]

I take it your eyes have never read any scientific reports stating that climate change is a man made problem, then, considering these reports do exist en masse...

There is no proof that climate change is a man made problem. There is no way to prove it. There could be a thousand reports saying we cause it, but i'll guarantee you there will be a thousand reports saying we don't cause it.

 

[Carcharodon]

Look i'm not saying we shouldn't try to find new fuels or ways to power things, i'm just saying Global Warming itself hasn't been proved to be caused by us in my eyes.

That's what you don't understand: science doesn't deal in absolutes. It deals with probability and outcome.

 

[The Senator]

There is no proof that climate change is a man made problem. There is no way to prove it. There could be a thousand reports saying we cause it, but i'll guarantee you there will be a thousand reports saying we don't cause it.

...and what qualifies you to make this statement?

 

[Carcharodon]

There is no proof that climate change is a man made problem. There is no way to prove it. There could be a thousand reports saying we cause it, but i'll guarantee you there will be a thousand reports saying we don't cause it.

...and you keep showing how out of touch you are with anything going on in the scientific community. By the way, your statement is false.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

...and what qualifies you to make this statement?

I don't need qualification to make that statement. It's fact. For every report there is saying we cause it, you can bet your life there will be a counter to this. I'm obviously no scientist but I believe that global warming, if there is such a thing, is determined by mother nature. I've read a lot of reports stating that every time there is a large volcanic eruption like Mt St Helens the amount of carbon dioxide and other gases that go into the atmosphere is more than the human race combined.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

...and you keep showing how out of touch you are with anything going on in the scientific community. By the way, your statement is false.

OK then smarty pants, how can you prove that humans are causing global warming? And perhaps more importantly can you prove that we have the means to reverse it or stop it?

 

[The Senator]

I don't need qualification to make that statement. It's fact. For every report there is saying we cause it, you can bet your life there will be a counter to this.

Actually, there aren't. Last I knew, reports declaring climate change a legitimate issue caused by man vastly outnumbered reports declaring climate change a hoax by a 3-1 margin. Moreover, as previously mentioned, there have been investigations into several studies which declare climate change a hoax, and it has been determined that many of these reports are funded by multinational corporations seeking to undermine any efforts which would cost them money to cut down on carbon emissions. So really... the argument you are making is flawed on so many levels...

I'm obviously no scientist but I believe that global warming, if there is such a thing, is determined by mother nature.

...and the Sun rises due to the Great Sun Bear, and it rains because of sad angels in Heaven. Oh, and the earth is only getting warm because it is faking a temperature to avoid going to school on Monday...

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Actually, there aren't. Last I knew, reports declaring climate change a legitimate issue caused by man vastly outnumbered reports declaring climate change a hoax by a 3-1 margin. Moreover, as previously mentioned, there have been investigations into several studies which declare climate change a hoax, and it has been determined that many of these reports are funded by multinational corporations seeking to undermine any efforts which would cost them money to cut down on carbon emissions. So really... the argument you are making is flawed on so many levels...



...and the Sun rises due to the Great Sun Bear, and it rains because of sad angels in Heaven. Oh, and the earth is only getting warm because it is faking a temperature to avoid going to school on Monday...

Now your just being silly! I meant who says this isn't just the way it is? Think back to when the dinosaurs were wiped out, did they pollute the atmosphere? Errrrr no. Who says this global warming isn't just natural? It's funny you chose to completely ignore the thing I said about large volanic eruptions.

 

[Captain Planet!]

Look i'm not saying we shouldn't try to find new fuels or ways to power things, i'm just saying Global Warming itself hasn't been proved to be caused by us in my eyes.

Okay Ace.

In person, with my own eyes, I never saw Mickey Mantle hit a homerun. But does that mean it never happened?