Discussion: Global Warming and Other Environmental Issues

[Carcharodon]

Malice you should rename the thread:

DISCUSSION: Man Made Artificial Global Warming

Mar's ice cap is also melting, but it doesn't mean there martians driving SUVs.

It should be noted that Mars' atmosphere is more than 90% carbon dioxide.

 

[Carcharodon]

I think man-made activity is enhancing global warming. I do not think that global warming was solely created by man-made activity. I think it's cyclical, but man is adding to it quite a bit.

The problem is that according to the models I've seen, I'm pretty certain we're *supposed* to be entering a cooling phase. Of course, that doesn't mean that we can't be entering a warming phase, but if we ARE then that means the planet has taken a radical divergence from what otherwise is a (relatively) stable and predictable pattern.

EDIT: Shoulda combined the last three posts. My bad.

 

[VampElvis]

The oceans are becoming measurably more acidic thanks to anthropogenic carbon dioxide. It's one of the effects that can't be denied and one that may have some of the largest consequences, but it still remains largely ignored. People who have had these debates/discussions with me know this pretty well by now though, I'd think; it's something I try to point out whenever I can.

Cursory thought on this subject seems to me that this phenomenon will occur regardless.

 

[Carcharodon]

Cursory thought on this subject seems to me that this phenomenon will occur regardless.

How so? It's directly tied to atmospheric carbon dioxide, most of which we KNOW to be anthropogenic thanks to isotopic analysis.

Or maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying.

 

[VampElvis]

How so? It's directly tied to atmospheric carbon dioxide, most of which we KNOW to be anthropogenic thanks to isotopic analysis.

Or maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying.

I was misunderstanding what I was saying - I was thinking of salinity not acidity.

 

[Kelly]

It doesn't help that he's used the issue as a platform to increase his personal worth something like 50x since he left office. (I think Clinton has "only" had a 25-30x increase - but he was the president, not the veep). A less trusting person would question his motives.

I do agree, that in recent legislative wranglings, in the house....he could definitely profit from what is being done....

BUT, the fact that the book and DVD are best sellers, has more to do with the need for discussion and desire for discussion on these issues....than him using those things for profit.

 

[VampElvis]

I do agree, that in recent legislative wranglings, in the house....he could definitely profit from what is being done....

BUT, the fact that the book and DVD are best sellers, has more to do with the need for discussion and desire for discussion on these issues....than him using those things for profit.

I don't think the book and DVD account for the $95 million or whatever his increase has been. I was speculating that more of it came from the carbon offset shell game. I don't know this but the perception is there regardless.

 

[Kelly]

Well, if the legislation that just made it through the house last week, makes it through the Senate. (The Cap&Trade Legislation) he will be a VERY RICH MAN.

 

[Nivek]

If it wasn't Al Gore, but rather someone like Morgan Spurlock who made a documentary about global warming and brought it to the world's attention, there would be much less debate.

yeah, let's listen to the guy who did a documentry on eating fast food 3 times a day being unhealthy (duh), as opposed to the former VP and statesman who won a Nobel Prize.

 

[Handsome Rob]

yeah, let's listen to the guy who did a documentry on eating fast food 3 times a day being unhealthy (duh), as opposed to the former VP and statesman who won a Nobel Prize.

You mean we should listen to the guy who stands to profit handsomely from the carbon credit scheme?

Yeah, Gore has as much objective credibility as the largest shareholder in Chevron saying that the only energy solution is to focus more on drilling for oil and less on alternative fuel sources.

 

[Grievous]

I don't believe in Gobal Warming to be Honest.

 

[Paradyme]

I don't believe in Gobal Warming to be Honest.

Saying you believe the climate is changing is like agreeing that the earth is round and that you believe in gravity. Where I fall off is when they say its man-made.

 

[Marx]

Saying you believe the climate is changing is like agreeing that the earth is round and that you believe in gravity. Where I fall off is when they say its man-made.

...you do believe that man is influencing it though, right?

 

[Kelly]

Man influences it of course....my question, and the biggest question IMO, is "how much"?

 

[Nivek]

Well, given that we can do core samples of trees, rocks, ice, and other materials that go back thousands and millions of years, I think the evidence does show a recent spike in climate change. Other factors like deforestation and fossil fuels, do you really need it explained how these things are going to adversely effect us in the long run?

I never understood why some people feel they "Don't believe in it" will make it any less real to people who live with the effects of it.

 

[Timstuff]

The "hockey stick chart" that everyone uses to show a recent man-made spike in carbon emissions is a farce. The margin of error on the tests is so high that you could draw pretty much any kind of line graph you wanted on it. I could pretty much make a documentary about how cave men had worse carbon emissions than us as long as I drew my graph within the same margin of error as Al Gore's.

The earth has on average increased in temperature by a degree over the last hundred years, sure, but we're still leaving "the mini ice age." I do not believe that man is causing a change in climate though, because there's no proof. We're also in the middle of changing spot cycles on the sun, which to me sounds like a much more likely cause for the warming. The "climate change" craze is just a scam to sell people expensive "green" products and allow the government to increase its control over the people. "Climate change" is rapidly replacing "terrorism" as the buzzword that can be used to make people give their freedom away.

 

[Marx]

Well, given that we can do core samples of trees, rocks, ice, and other materials that go back thousands and millions of years, I think the evidence does show a recent spike in climate change. Other factors like deforestation and fossil fuels, do you really need it explained how these things are going to adversely effect us in the long run?

I never understood why some people feel they "Don't believe in it" will make it any less real to people who live with the effects of it.

The ice research is what I find the most interesting.

 

[Nivek]

The ice research is what I find the most interesting.

Like polar landscapes eroding faster than they have previously, given ice core samples? Or the drowned Polar Bears?

 

[chaseter]

They are learning to swim better. Just give them a million years before they become aquatic bears and take over attacks on beaches from their sworn enemies, the sharks.

 

[Paradyme]

...you do believe that man is influencing it though, right?

Man influences it of course....my question, and the biggest question IMO, is "how much"?

Kel answered for me.

 

[Carcharodon]

They are learning to swim better. Just give them a million years before they become aquatic bears and take over attacks on beaches from their sworn enemies, the sharks.

 

[chaseter]

Who knows. Maybe the bears and sharks will form symbiotic relationships and they will hunt in packs. Our worst nightmare.

 

[Carcharodon]

We're also in the middle of changing spot cycles on the sun, which to me sounds like a much more likely cause for the warming.

Based on...what? Your vast scientific knowledge?

Did you know that sunspot cycles only operate in periods of 9 to 14 years? That hardly explains a more-than-century-long trend of warming.

In other words: that argument phails.

The "climate change" craze is just a scam to sell people expensive "green" products and allow the government to increase its control over the people. "Climate change" is rapidly replacing "terrorism" as the buzzword that can be used to make people give their freedom away.

There is still a strong (even dire) environmental need to reduce our carbon emissions even if the issue of climate change is ignored. Nobody can deny that, for reasons I've already stated in this thread. So that "scam" is ultimately leading us in the right direction.

Nobody is taking away your freedoms. You're just paranoid. You should really learn to tell the difference.

 

[Nivek]

They are learning to swim better. Just give them a million years before they become aquatic bears and take over attacks on beaches from their sworn enemies, the sharks.

So, there are Sharks in polar waters that are an Apex predator?

 

[chaseter]

Organic foods is a scam. Green living is not.