🇷🇺🇺🇦 Discussion: Relations with Russia and the war in Ukraine

[DA_Champion]

Serbian President Vucic sees world war in the coming months. I'm assuming he's hoping his country remain neutral, which is fair after what happened to it in the last world war.

It's easy to understand what's happening -- the Ukraine war is a gamble to assume control of Russia's land and natural resources. Replace Putin with a white nationalist like Navalny and White people can stay on top for another 100 years.

So the plan has a certain logic to it ... Other than the fact there's no way to implement it.

 

[blueharvest]

G7 leaders agree to lend Ukraine billions backed by Russia's frozen assets. Here's how it will work

The leaders of the Group of Seven wealthy democracies have agreed to set in motion a $50 billion loan to help Ukraine.

apnews.com

 

[DA_Champion]

That a peace deal has to be reached, is clear...but one that Ukraine sets and Russia agrees...or at least one that is even.
Something like Ukraine to not Join the NATO but Russia gives the land back they stole.

If you're not willing to read Foreign Affairs, read the New York Times.


Foreign Affairs is for people in the top 1% to discuss ideas with other people in the top 1%.

The New York Times is for people in the top 1% to tell people in the top 10% how they're supposed to think.

I find it interesting that they're now both acknowledging that the West and Ukraine's leadership walked away from better terms in 2022. Previously that was denied, I only knew about it because I listen to independent and international media. To me this suggests there is some internal debate taking place among the elites, which is probably good ?

 

[squeekness]

G7 leaders agree to lend Ukraine billions backed by Russia's frozen assets. Here's how it will work

The leaders of the Group of Seven wealthy democracies have agreed to set in motion a $50 billion loan to help Ukraine.

apnews.com

Hope they do this immediately instead of just talking about it.

 

[Sithborg]

The Ukrainian leadership rejected that peace deal in early 2022, which is even acknowledged by Western establishment media.

The Talks That Could Have Ended the War in Ukraine

A hidden history of diplomacy that came up short—but holds lessons for future negotiations.

www.foreignaffairs.com

You did read those treaties, right? No where there was it saying Russia gave all its land back. And yeah, there is good reasons Ukraine rejected those.

 

[DA_Champion]

You did read those treaties, right? No where there was it saying Russia gave all its land back.

The Western public is being permitted to see a draft of what were several drafts for the first time, but let's go with this.

(I don't know if this is the same draft that Putin shows to other world leaders).

Had Ukraine agreed to that treaty, it would still have sovereignty over Kherson and Zaporizhzhia (which it has now lost forever), and Donetsk and Lugansk would be independent republics rather than Russian oblasts as they will now forever be.

And yeah, there is good reasons Ukraine rejected those.

Ukraine was actually ready to accept the treaty, and Russia ended the siege of Kiev as a goodwill gesture. Then UK prime minister Boris Johnson visited the Ukraine leadership, and promised them NATO military help if they kept fighting.

The Ukrainians kept on fighting, but as we now know with certainty and many people predicted at the time, the military help from NATO was completely inadequate.

If NATO wants to defeat Russia, they can't rely on half measures.

Did you know that for the second world war, 16 million Americans fought in the armed forces, the peak marginal tax rate was 94%, and that the unemployment rate was 1.2%?

 

[Sithborg]

Ukraine was actually ready to accept the treaty, and Russia ended the siege of Kiev as a goodwill gesture. Then UK prime minister Boris Johnson visited the Ukraine leadership, and promised them NATO military help if they kept fighting.

The Ukrainians kept on fighting, but as we now know with certainty and many people predicted at the time, the military help from NATO was completely inadequate.

If NATO wants to defeat Russia, they can't rely on half measures.

Did you know that for the second world war, 16 million Americans fought in the armed forces, the peak marginal tax rate was 94%, and that the unemployment rate was 1.2%?

That is complete and utter bull****. They were kicked the **** out of Kyiv. Ukranians, for some odd reason to you, kind of hardened up on certain things when they started to find out about the Bucha massacre, something that has sort of become a trend in retaken areas from Russia. Ukraine walked away from talks when Putin said that their little council of protection would have veto power over other countries being able to provide aid to Ukraine if they were attacked again. Even you have to see that giving Russia theoretical veto power over other countries providing aid if Ukraine was attacked by *someone* is completely and utter bull**** for Ukraine to accept.

 

[blueharvest]

The US supports 'a just and lasting peace' for Ukraine, Harris tells Zelenskyy at Swiss summit

It’s Vice President Kamala Harris, not President Joe Biden, who will join world leaders in Switzerland and meet with Ukraine’s Volodymyr Zelenskyy to discuss his vision for ending the grinding war launched by Russia.

apnews.com

 

[Mani-Man]

You know who killed any chance of Ukraine remaining "neutral"? They guy who ordered the invasion of Ukraine.

Literally.
And Ukraine doesnt even need to be neutral, they have all the right in the world to choose their way.
They want to be part of the Nato? Then they can.
They dont want to be under the thumb of a dictator... That is their right.

Its still so insane that the weak Russian propaganda worked on some, especially conservatives...but then, conservatives were always just smoke and mirrors and never really believe in their own "morals"

 

[Sithborg]

Conservatives I understand. But the tankies are the ones that piss me off.

 

[DA_Champion]

That is complete and utter bull****. They were kicked the **** out of Kyiv. Ukranians, for some odd reason to you, kind of hardened up on certain things when they started to find out about the Bucha massacre, something that has sort of become a trend in retaken areas from Russia. Ukraine walked away from talks when Putin said that their little council of protection would have veto power over other countries being able to provide aid to Ukraine if they were attacked again. Even you have to see that giving Russia theoretical veto power over other countries providing aid if Ukraine was attacked by *someone* is completely and utter bull**** for Ukraine to accept.

You mention Bucha, for example,for which the Western establishment narrative is questionable to say the least, but are you aware that the Kiev regime has been bombing civilians in the Donbass since 2014? Are you aware that those bombings include double tappings to hit ambulances?

But you don't have to believe me today. Ten years from now, when the Ukrainians hate the West as much as the Chechens do, you might ponder how that happened.

As for Ukraine, I wish the will of the people there was followed -- neutrality. They wanted to be neutral, but the West said no.

Conservatives I understand. But the tankies are the ones that piss me off.

I hope this pejorative term isn't for me. In this context I prefer the terms anti-racist or anti-inperialism. I want every civilization to have the option of self actualization.

Also, I now have children, I don't want them to go die in a stupid bipartisan war so that the MIC can make bank.

 

[blueharvest]

Ukraine's Azov Brigade sends direct message to US after arms ban lifted

"This is a new page in the history of our unit," the brigade had said earlier this week.

www.newsweek.com

 

[blueharvest]

Trump threatens to cut US aid to Ukraine quickly if reelected

Ukraine’s allies are scrambling to secure long-term aid for Kyiv amid fears about a second Trump term.

www.politico.eu

 

[DA_Champion]

I was wrong about something significant.

When the EU first announced their sanctions on Russian energy, I figured there was a risk they'd have rolling brownouts, etc, because it's impossible to replace energy.

All the sanctions meant was that if Europe should ever need to buy Russian energy, they would just buy Russian energy.

 

[blueharvest]

Weiterleitungshinweis

 

[squeekness]

Weiterleitungshinweis

Good news.

 

[InCali]

Conservatives I understand. But the tankies are the ones that piss me off.

Yeah. Some people don't really seem to concern themselves with political repression and sing the praises of these repressive regimes. I was something of a supporter of the USSR, but recognized that a political revolution was in order. Unfortunately, that failed and when the USSR dissolved, they picked the path of a degraded economic structure while keeping the deformed political structure that has plagued Russia.....like forever.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

World leaders to demand Ukrainian territorial integrity, blame Russia for war

World leaders gathered at a peace summit in Switzerland have drafted a preliminary declaration calling for the preservation of Ukraine's territorial integrity and holding Russia responsible for the ongoing conflict.

www.polskieradio.pl

78 countries at Swiss conference agree Ukraine’s territorial integrity must be basis of any peace

78 countries at Swiss conference agree Ukraine's territorial integrity must be basis of any peace

Nearly 80 countries jointly called for the “territorial integrity” of Ukraine to be the basis for any peace agreement to end Russia’s two-year war.

apnews.com

Peace talks 'tomorrow' if Russia leaves Ukraine - Zelensky

The remarks come as Ukraine's president hails international support at a summit in Switzerland.

www.bbc.com

‘Close ally’ Japan set to sanction Indian firms for trade ties with Russia

Japan, a close Indian ally in business and security spheres, is all set to slap sanctions on companies from India as well as those from China, the UAE and...

www.tribuneindia.com

Russian Inflation Rises Once Again in May - The Moscow Times

The pace of inflation in Russia accelerated yet again in May as officials warn huge public spending to support the military offensive on Ukraine is overheating the economy.

www.themoscowtimes.com

 

[squeekness]

If Ukraine gives up any land Putin still wins.

 

[blueharvest]

Key global powers fail to sign up to Ukraine peace summit communique

Brazil, India and Saudi Arabia among countries not to endorse text supporting Ukraine’s territorial integrity

www.theguardian.com

 

[Mani-Man]

If Ukraine gives up any land Putin still wins.

I assume there is no way around that, but any kind of peace talk has to be on Ukraines terms still.
Zelensky cant hope to take it all back...that just isnt realistic...but some of it is possible...if russia would be all about the peace it claims.

Its a farce whenever Russia talks like the good guys or reasonable ones, when this War only happens because of a delusion from Russias side.
A War started by Russia.
Every second, Russia could end this war...this could be over in 24 hours if Russia would really be interested in peace and all.
But as everything with Russia...its all a lie and propaganda to fool gullible into thinking Russia is not the bad guys in this war, when they 100% are.

 

[squeekness]

I assume there is no way around that, but any kind of peace talk has to be on Ukraines terms still.
Zelensky cant hope to take it all back...that just isnt realistic...but some of it is possible...if russia would be all about the peace it claims.

Its a farce whenever Russia talks like the good guys or reasonable ones, when this War only happens because of a delusion from Russias side.
A War started by Russia.
Every second, Russia could end this war...this could be over in 24 hours if Russia would really be interested in peace and all.
But as everything with Russia...its all a lie and propaganda to fool gullible into thinking Russia is not the bad guys in this war, when they 100% are.

I don't trust Putin to keep the peace for long.

 

[DA_Champion]

A technical article from a foreign correspondent in Moscow on the domestic opposition to Putin's handling of the war.

A lot of Russians are frustrated with him because he's proceeding at a slow pace, from what I understand (partial) Putin makes a priority of winning the diplomatic support of the global south, which he deems easier if the war goes more slowly.

NEXT STAGE – THE GENERAL STAFF’S TARGETS AFTER PUTIN’S FEINT

by John Helmer, Moscow @bears_with The Russian military bloggers haven’t been as quick as the Kiev regime and NATO allies to dismiss Presi

johnhelmer.net

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

Putin extends defence ministry purge, hands job to a relative​

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-clears-out-deputy-defence-ministers-appoints-his-relative-2024-06-17/

Russian President Vladimir Putin sacked four deputy defence ministers on Monday and appointed a relative to fill one of the resulting vacancies.

The reshuffle marked the latest stage in a radical shakeout which Putin launched in May when he unexpectedly removed his longstanding defence minister Sergei Shoigu.

He appointed Anna Tsivileva, the daughter of his late cousin, as a deputy defence minister whose responsibilities will include improving social and housing support for military personnel. Her husband Sergei Tsivilev is Russia's energy minister.

 

[InCali]

Putin extends defence ministry purge, hands job to a relative​

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-clears-out-deputy-defence-ministers-appoints-his-relative-2024-06-17/

This is somewhat different than the wife of a politician running for an elected public office.
In general, it's also bad policy. I can think of times when it was deserved, but those are the exceptions rather than the rule.

Sounds sorta familiar during the last administration, but, hey, maybe I'm off base here.....