Discussion: The North American Union

[jaguarr]

You notice how a lot of stuff is cyclical in our universe? I think Alan Moore (of all people its weird he would come up with this), might be right that we are reliving our lives and over and over again. Although I heard this is a Buddhist principle. Me and you had this very same forum conversation before in another lifetime.

Am I giving you a headache yet?

The concept that we live life on a certain plane over and over until we learn whatever lesson it is we are supposed to learn before we are allowed to graduate to the next plane (where we repeat the process) isn't new by any means. Certain tenets of some flavors of Buddhism believe this (going beyond simple reincarnation), so that's possibly where Moore lifted the concept from. The idea isn't that you necessarily live the exact same life and experiences over and over again, but that you are presented with alternate ways of learning the same lessons in different lifetimes until you finally "get it". Fun, heady stuff.

jag

 

[dnno1]

Sounds like tinfoil hat crap to me.

Not tinfoil but copper.

 

[jaguarr]

With the price of copper being what it is, I HIGHLY doubt they'd make coins out of it. Even the penny only has a fraction of copper in it's composition these days. I believe the rest is zinc oxide. At any rate, something about those "Ameros" looks off. There's something overly-simplistic about their design that makes me think they're a mock-up someone made.

jag

 

[lazur]

*cough*

WRONG.

Here's why:

Radiometric Dating

Accuracy of Fossils and Dating Methods

Carbon Dating



This is priceless

Actually, recorded history is traced back to about 3300 BCE which is roughly 5300 years ago - NOT 3000 (you may have confused 300 years ago with 3000 BCE).

First off, the first examples of recorded history are few and far between - these were (as far as we know) carved into stone due to the weathering and erosion of rocks. Any recording on organic matter that may have existed, however, has not been preserved and, therefore, not made it to the present day for us to study.

Secondly, Our planet may have been around for 4.6 billion years, but life didn't start to appear until about 3.4 billion years ago. These unicellular microorganisms didn't change much until about 1.5 billion years ago when multicellular organisms evolved from their simpler counterparts. The numbers of these creatures rose for the next 900 million years. The first hard-bodied organisms started to become numerous in the Cambrian explosion around 545 million years ago.

You can look up where it went from there if you like, but I'm sure you'll continue to shove your index fingers into their repective ears whenever people talk about things you don't agree with.



Who said they do? Anyone who does is delusional.



We may not have complete understanding (and it's very unlikely we will in totality), but to say we have none is rather arrogant of you.



It's mutation, actually - a perfectly natural random change in the genetic code.

Mutation



So? Alchemy doesn't exist



...because things have changed INCALCULABLY since the beginning of the universe 14 BILLION YEARS AGO that things have only increased in complexity.

Things only become simpler with decay.



That all depends on what one thinks is logical, per se.



What's wrong with being hopeful?

Is this somehow worse than assuming one "knows" that the universe was created by some external entity?

Good luck trying to explain how THAT got there in the first place...



Pluto - NASA

"Pluto is about 39 times as far from the sun as Earth is. Its average distance from the sun is about 3,647,240,000 miles (5,869,660,000 kilometers). Pluto travels around the sun in an elliptical (oval-shaped) orbit. At some point in its orbit, it comes closer to the sun than Neptune, the outermost planet. It stays inside Neptune's orbit for about 20 Earth years. This event occurs every 248 Earth years, which is about the same number of Earth years it takes Pluto to travel once around the sun. Pluto entered Neptune's orbit on Jan. 23, 1979, and remained there until Feb. 11, 1999. As it orbits the sun, Pluto spins on its axis, an imaginary line through its center. It spins around once in about six Earth days."

You should take a few science classes - it may help you a bit with your misunderstanding of basic principles

Fact: Radiometric dating is yet another method of carbon dating, and carbon dating can, at the most, reliably measure thousands of years (or so scientists believe) - not millions and certainly not billions years. And ALL dating methods we have are flawed and subject to atmospheric and planetary conditions at the time the object existed that we're attempting to date. (http://www.allaboutarchaeology.org/carbon-dating.htm)

And I know a bit more about science than you give me credit for. This is not about understanding science. This is about understanding that science doesn't provide all of the answers. In fact, science provides NONE of them. To the degree science can, it explains the 'what' behind everything - ie, what a tree is made out of. But it doesn't provide the how or the why. And that's where you and I see this much differently.

Now, I'm trying to have a reasonable and respectful conversation on the subject. Perhaps you should do the same.

 

[UA-Archangel]

Jesus. I skipped ahead a page and I thought I'd slipped into a alternate parallel universe for a second.

This whole economic crash is simply going to get more people sounding an alarm, even if what they fear has little chance of coming true. So the worse this gets, the more of this kind of worrying we'll be hearing as the opinion becomes more widespread. So it's important to focus on what will likely happen.

I can promise you one thing, and that's Canadians would revolt in the streets if we were told we'd been sucked into a North American Union. There is NO way that even the most liberal-minded Canadian would ever consider the possibility of abandoning our country. I can imagine it's a similar thing with Americans, in that they are proud of being American and nothing is going to change what that means. It's more than likely the case in Mexico, too.

I guess it's because our three countries are still of another generation or two from the member states of the EU that we cling so tightly to that which makes us unique. So what happens instead is that Canada and the USA both independently strike up trade talks with the EU, but not really with each other. I would guess that our independent currencies will make it through this depression and last all the way to the next one.

Hopefully by then we'll have moved closer to matching the globalization of our society with that of our economy.

Canadians are more practical than this. They would accept a closer union, eventually to the point of merging, if the situation required it.

 

[dnno1]

Fact: Radiometric dating is yet another method of carbon dating, and carbon dating can, at the most, reliably measure thousands of years (or so scientists believe) - not millions and certainly not billions years. And ALL dating methods we have are flawed and subject to atmospheric and planetary conditions at the time the object existed that we're attempting to date. (http://www.allaboutarchaeology.org/carbon-dating.htm)

And I know a bit more about science than you give me credit for. This is not about understanding science. This is about understanding that science doesn't provide all of the answers. In fact, science provides NONE of them. To the degree science can, it explains the 'what' behind everything - ie, what a tree is made out of. But it doesn't provide the how or the why. And that's where you and I see this much differently.

Now, I'm trying to have a reasonable and respectful conversation on the subject. Perhaps you should do the same.

Carbon dating can only measure items under 60,000 years in the past. This is because the dating system is related to the half-life of radioactive Carbon-14 (half-life = 5730). The Battousai referenced radiometric dating which could use a number of radioactive isotopes that have much larger half-life. A uranium-lead radiometric dating scheme can measure dated as early as 2 million to 2.5 billion years with a 2-5% accuracy rate. By measuring certain rocks, scientists predict the age of the earth to be 4.6 billion years using this method. Radiometric dating is one of the oldest techniques available, as well as one of the most highly respected. As far as your comment about science, it is actually the best way, we can discover the truth and explain the phenomena of the physical world. Without it we would not be as advanced as we are and I certainly couldn't deliver this message to you.

 

[hippie_hunter]

And another thing, the world economy is still heavily dependent on the US dollar that the other governments would be opposed to it. The Amero is not going to happen.

 

[dnno1]

About 4 years ago there was talk by a lot of countries to wean off the dollar and start trading in Euros. This was due to the fact that the currency is devaluing. I am not saying that the Amero is going to happen any time soon (if at all), but if the dollar continues to devalue we could be in for a big surprise.

 

[hippie_hunter]

About 4 years ago there was talk by a lot of countries to wean off the dollar and start trading in Euros. This was due to the fact that the currency is devaluing. I am not saying that the Amero is going to happen any time soon (if at all), but if the dollar continues to devalue we could be in for a big surprise.

The dollar has actually been rising in value for quite some time.

 

[Carcharodon]

There's no evidence that it takes millions of years to form dirt. The entire premise of our understanding of 'dating' rests in the only physical dating process we've ever both wholly accepted and wholly debunked at the same time - carbon dating. It's a proven hoax.

1) Your ignorance is amusing. In fact, carbon-dating is only used to date things less than a few thousand years old. Past that there are other methods that prove far more reliable, with half-lives on the order of billions of years. Where are you getting your information?

2) Do you even know how radiometric dating works?

3) Radioactive decay is great because it works in a mathematically predictable manner, meaning that even though we haven't been around to actually witness the half-lives of many of these useful materials, it can be predicted with an enormous amount of reliability.

I'd love for you to back your comments about dating up...though I will concede that I agree with a lot of your more general points regarding science and our understanding of the universe.

 

[Carcharodon]

Carbon dating can only measure items under 60,000 years in the past. This is because the dating system is related to the half-life of radioactive Carbon-14 (half-life = 5730). The Battousai referenced radiometric dating which could use a number of radioactive isotopes that have much larger half-life. A uranium-lead radiometric dating scheme can measure dated as early as 2 million to 2.5 billion years with a 2-5% accuracy rate. By measuring certain rocks, scientists predict the age of the earth to be 4.6 billion years using this method.

This.

 

[Carcharodon]

Fact: Radiometric dating is yet another method of carbon dating....

Wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. You have it backwards: carbon dating is merely one of MANY methods of radiometric dating.

 

[hippie_hunter]

There's no evidence that it takes millions of years to form dirt.

You're right in that human kind is nowhere near solving all of the mysteries in the universe, but seriously, we're not that ignorant.

 

[dnno1]

The dollar has actually been rising in value for quite some time.

http://www.dollars2pounds.com/ExchangeRateChart.php

If you look at the 5-year chart you will see that the dollar has only gotten stronger over the last year. Prior to that it was getting progressively weaker.

 

[hippie_hunter]

http://www.dollars2pounds.com/ExchangeRateChart.php

If you look at the 5-year chart you will see that the dollar has only gotten stronger over the last year. Prior to that it was getting progressively weaker.

True, but in the more recent weeks, the dollar has made some very impressive gains against the Euro and British pound.

 

[Nivek]

Public. Why?

The teachers who passed you in any science class should be fired. At least if your home schooled it would explain your level of ignorance in basic scientific theory and method of study. The fact that someone recieved a state paycheck to educate you, and you cant wrap your head around carbon dating, simply dissapoints me that so many people gave you a free pass.

 

[Paradoxium]

Canadians are more practical than this. They would accept a closer union, eventually to the point of merging, if the situation required it.

Canada should throw Quebec under the bus if it ever happened.

 

[danoyse]

True, but in the more recent weeks, the dollar has made some very impressive gains against the Euro and British pound.

It has. And of course, that had to start happening after my trip to London and Paris.

 

[dnno1]

It has. And of course, that had to start happening after my trip to London and Paris.

I was there last year.

 

[UA-Archangel]

The teachers who passed you in any science class should be fired. At least if your home schooled it would explain your level of ignorance in basic scientific theory and method of study. The fact that someone recieved a state paycheck to educate you, and you cant wrap your head around carbon dating, simply dissapoints me that so many people gave you a free pass.

Actually if you look at scores, home-schoolers usually score higher on tests than those who went to school.

 

[The Battousai]

Actually if you look at scores, home-schoolers usually score higher on tests than those who went to school.

That depends on what subjects you're talking about as well as who's doing the teaching and how that teaching is being administered.

Do you have some reliable statistics to reference here?

 

[The Senator]

Why are we arguing over homeschooling? I thought this was a thread to discuss economic conspiracies which aren't real and will never come into fruition?

 

[The Battousai]

Why are we arguing over homeschooling? I thought this was a thread to discuss economic conspiracies which aren't real and will never come into fruition?

I think you answered your own question, jman

 

[hippie_hunter]

It has. And of course, that had to start happening after my trip to London and Paris.

It's gone back to levels to when I went to Western Europe.

 

[UA-Archangel]

That depends on what subjects you're talking about as well as who's doing the teaching and how that teaching is being administered.

Do you have some reliable statistics to reference here?

http://www.hslda.org/docs/nche/000010/200410250.asp