Discussion: The REPUBLICAN Party - Part 16

[Matt Mortem]

Difference between Jeb handling Trump and Hillary is that Hillary is a vicious goddamn bulldog. Career politician to the core and will do anything and everything to take him down. Trump is a child that doesn't like it when people are mean to him.

 

[summerteeth]

Difference between Jeb handling Trump and Hillary is that Hillary is a vicious goddamn bulldog. Career politician to the core and will do anything and everything to take him down. Trump is a child that doesn't like it when people are mean to him.

Oh she will play dirty for sure, but on the debate stage I can't see her succeeding in her attacks. It's going to be a very ugly election year and it really saddens me to see my country come to this.

 

[SV Fan]

It's going to be very close, but the turnout on the Republican primaries right now because of Trump compared to the turnout on the Democrat's side is worrisome.

I think this is being blown out of proportion. Democratic turnout in 2016 is much better then 2000 or 2004, but when you compare it to 2008 it looks bad.

As for the Republican turnout, I think it's being effected by the spectacle of Trump plus having so many candidates(who are driving out their voters). Let's assume Trump isn't the nominee, I don't think a Trump primary voter instantly becomes a vote for Cruz or Rubio

 

[craigdbfan]

If Trump doesn't get the nomination his core base won't even vote. The Republican party is either going to reform to Trump's beat or they can commit suicide as a party and pull some crooked **** at the RNC and nominate someone else.

 

[chamber-music]

Most of it was from Cruz...

The Republican party members that follow Cruz see their loss in the last 2 elections as a problem of not being "Conservative enough", not being "Religious enough"...it had nothing to do with alienating certain demographics like the "Hispanic vote"..."Women voters" etc...their deafness to this is astounding. Those Republican leaders that GET THIS DEMOGRAPHIC PROBLEM, are the ones dropping out of this race.

The Republican party is weird. I don't know they don't just chill on the social issues and focus on stuff like the economy more. I think they would have a far greater chance of getting and maintaining power if they didn't try so hard to appease a very specific minority of the electorate that make up some of their grass roots.

If your going to build a political platform mostly off of straight white christian men over forty then you will struggle.

Populism wins votes more often than not.

 

[summerteeth]

I think this is being blown out of proportion. Democratic turnout in 2016 is much better then 2000 or 2004, but when you compare it to 2008 it looks bad.

As for the Republican turnout, I think it's being effected by the spectacle of Trump plus having so many candidates(who are driving out their voters). Let's assume Trump isn't the nominee, I don't think a Trump primary voter instantly becomes a vote for Cruz or Rubio

Democrats lost in 2000 and 2004 though and while I agree that Trump supporters may not show up to vote for Rubio or Cruz operating under the assumption that Trump will not win the nomination is going against the most likely scenario.

 

[SV Fan]

Democrats lost in 2000 and 2004 though and while I agree that Trump supporters may not show up to vote for Rubio or Cruz operating under the assumption that Trump will not win the nomination is going against the most likely scenario.

I am not sure that Cruz and Rubio supporters = Trump supporters either. On the flip side 85% of Bernie supporters say they like Hillary. As I said the spectacle of Trump(and all the media attention around him) has increased the numbers for the Republican primary. If Trump is the nominee I do think much like Rubio and Cruz in the primaries, Hillary will get alot of that negative Trump vote coming out in November(not saying she will get the Cruz and Rubio support, more a case that people who are lefties who might not show up if Rubio or Kasich was the candidate will show up to vote against Trump).

It's a basic case if Trump doesn't run, I don't think the Republican primary is nearly as large as it currently is(although probably higher then 2012)

 

[summerteeth]

I am not sure that Cruz and Rubio supporters = Trump supporters either. On the flip side 85% of Bernie supporters say they like Hillary. As I said the spectacle of Trump(and all the media attention around him) has increased the numbers for the Republican primary. If Trump is the nominee I do think much like Rubio and Cruz in the primaries, Hillary will get alot of that negative Trump vote coming out in November(not saying she will get the Cruz and Rubio support, more a case that people who are lefties who might not show up if Rubio or Kasich was the candidate will show up to vote against Trump).

I don't see any evidence that there is a negative Trump vote in the primaries nor do I know of any precedence where an anti-candidate vote helped drive people to the polls in large numbers that impacted an election. People who support Rubio, Cruz, Kasich are Republicans and will support the party in the end for the most part.

I agree if Trump doesn't run we don't see the large turnout, but he has and will most likely win the nomination. People are showing up to vote for him for whatever reason.

 

[CaptainWagner]

If Trump doesn't get the nomination his core base won't even vote. The Republican party is either going to reform to Trump's beat or they can commit suicide as a party and pull some crooked **** at the RNC and nominate someone else.

Committing suicide would be actually going through and nominating Trump. He simply won't win and if, heaven forbid, he did, it would kill the party if his candidacy hadn't already buried it.

 

[SV Fan]

I don't see any evidence that there is a negative Trump vote in the primaries nor do I know of any precedence where an anti-candidate vote helped drive people to the polls in large numbers that impacted an election. People who support Rubio, Cruz, Kasich are Republicans and will support the party in the end for the most part.

I don't see Rubio and Cruz supporters showing up enthusiastically for Trump though. My basic point about the negative vote for Trump is I think many people who are going out to vote for somebody other then Trump are basically being drawn out due to all the attention Trump brings to this race(thus driving up other people's numbers). Now chances are that Republican Primary voters will most likely vote Trump in a general election, but I think the negative draw of Trump will help Hillary get alot of people who would be otherwise disinterested to come out in November. Latinos for instance had pretty poor turnout in 2012(less then 50%), so I could see them coming out more then they normally do

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I am not sure that Cruz and Rubio supporters = Trump supporters either. On the flip side 85% of Bernie supporters say they like Hillary. As I said the spectacle of Trump(and all the media attention around him) has increased the numbers for the Republican primary. If Trump is the nominee I do think much like Rubio and Cruz in the primaries, Hillary will get alot of that negative Trump vote coming out in November(not saying she will get the Cruz and Rubio support, more a case that people who are lefties who might not show up if Rubio or Kasich was the candidate will show up to vote against Trump).

It's a basic case if Trump doesn't run, I don't think the Republican primary is nearly as large as it currently is(although probably higher then 2012)

There is a real battle for the soul of the Republican Party right now. It reminds me a lot of the Democrats in 1968. That drives turnout up. The Democratic race simply isn't anywhere near as exciting or important to Democratic voters. Clinton and Sanders agree on most things and the vast majority of Democrats would be fine voting for either one if their candidate lost. That is not the case with the Republicans.

I don't think it necessarily gives us much of an indication of what will happen in November.

 

[Donner]

I think part of the problem that the Republicans have is that they have no idea where Trump really stands. He just says he's a Republican, but his opinions are all over the map. Trump is as much of an enemy to the Democrats as he is to the Republicans. He doesn't fit in anywhere because he's constantly changing his mind about what his policies are and really, he's just a bully on stage, to both sides.

The guy is a clown and I would not blame the Republicans at all if they chose a different nominee. He's pandering to the lowest common denominator and their voice is, unfortunately, the loudest right now.

 

[Matt Mortem]

If Trump did win the general election I'm sure the two parties would unite to impeach.

 

[Marvolo]

If Trump did win the general election I'm sure the two parties would unite to impeach.

Why would the GOP do that? The GOP will just try to put party members around Trump, and they will still control the House and Senate. Trump would need to entirely shut the GOP out of his cabinet before they would consider impeachment.

 

[Matt Mortem]

Why would the GOP do that? The GOP will just try to put party members around Trump, and they will still control the House and Senate. Trump would need to entirely shut the GOP out of his cabinet before they would consider impeachment.

Fair enough. I still think a Trump victory would unite the parties on a lot of things.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

They wouldn't impeach Trump right away, but he does enough to piss them off with executive orders and generally acting like a king I could see it happening at some point. If Trump is willing to work with them, it won't.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Why would the GOP do that? The GOP will just try to put party members around Trump, and they will still control the House and Senate. Trump would need to entirely shut the GOP out of his cabinet before they would consider impeachment.

Unless the formal nomination of Trump torpedoes the party. If he's the pick, a lot of Senators are going to have to choose between supporting him or maintaining their own seat.

 

[wiegeabo]

They can only impeach if they can come up with charges.

Well, charges that have a chance of sticking, at least.

 

[Marvolo]

They can only impeach if they can come up with charges.

Well, charges that have a chance of sticking, at least.

Not really. The House and Senate handle the impeachment and decide whether the President has to leave office. If they all or a majority of the House want him out and the Senate want him out of the White House they could kick him out with even superfluous charges.

 

[Kelly]

That would set a horrible precedents imo.

 

[Marvolo]

That would set a horrible precedents imo.

I dont think a precedent being set matters. Its already law that impeachment and removing a president lies entirely with the House and Senate and the judicial courts agree that it is a legislative matter. Congress doesnt need a precedent to do something like this now or in the future. They have the constitution on their side. Precedents in this matter really doesnt matter.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Would neo cons rather see Hillary or Trump in the White House?

 

[Webfoot Hero]

I dont think a precedent being set matters. Its already law that impeachment and removing a president lies entirely with the House and Senate and the judicial courts agree that it is a legislative matter. Congress doesnt need a precedent to do something like this now or in the future. They have the constitution on their side. Precedents in this matter really doesnt matter.

If they did that for no reason, they'd better be prepared to face heavy scrutiny from the press and then their constituents. It's be suicide to get rid of someone from your own party for doing nothing egregious or unlawful.

 

[Marvolo]

If they did that for no reason, they'd better be prepared to face heavy scrutiny from the press and then their constituents. It's be suicide to get rid of someone from your own party for doing nothing egregious or unlawful.

No doubt which is why theyve never done anything like that. As long as they answer to us they are unlikely to do something like that.

But frankly I think Trump acting like a racist bafoon is valid reason enough to do it so if they did it to Trump I really wouldnt say anything against it. The constitution is on their side and if he behaves in office the same way he is behaving now then he isnt fit to be president.

And lets be honest, Trump isnt a part of the GOP. He is using them as a ride into office and pandering to the far right GOP voters but the only party Trump belongs to is the Trump party so if he turns on the GOP after getting in office I doubt theyd have any qualms about turning on him. They probably see him as a cancer more than anything.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I wouldn't be concerned about precedent. It would require bipartisan support to convict him. A situation where both parties would be angry enough at a sitting president to even consider agreeing to do that would be extremely rare.