Discussion: The REPUBLICAN Party - - Part 17

[MessiahDecoy123]

Screw party lines. Now that my party isn't in control.

Obama didn't have a watergate. Obama didn't collude with a hostile, rogue nation to take help over the US government.

 

[Jason Kane]

Obama didn't have a watergate. Obama didn't collude with a hostile, rogue nation to take help over the US government.

Somewhere in the great beyond, the Rosenbergs are thinking "Wonder if those guys especially the orange one will join us underground.

 

[bell110]

Obama didn't have a watergate. Obama didn't collude with a hostile, rogue nation to take help over the US government.

Neither has Trump.

Obama did cozy up with Iran and Cuba, though.

 

[Matt Mortem]

Neither has Trump.

Obama did cozy up with Iran and Cuba, though.

You serious right now? Careful you don't drown in all that Kool-aid you're drinking.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Neither has Trump.

Obama did cozy up with Iran and Cuba, though.

So a hostile, authoritarian regime had the power to blackmail a crony so they help them undermine the presidential election to gain full government power and secrets under their watch.

When did that happen with Obama?

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Neither has Trump.

Obama did cozy up with Iran and Cuba, though.

This opinion has zero insight into actual diplomacy, but it's par for the course I suppose.

The previous administration negotiated with Iran. How that is "cozying up" is baffling. Guess what? That is what you do in the executive branch. You negotiate with hostile powers. It's far preferable to having the sitting president figuratively kiss the ass of an authoritarian strongman constantly, whose country we know was injecting themselves into our election, not to mention the ties we also already know multiple members of his campaign have to that same authoritarian strongman's country.

Unless what you want is to engage in a ground war with Iran? But I thought Donald was going to be the prince of peace, whereas Clinton was the scary warmonger? You know, the guy that literally said he loved war and was wistful about the possibility of going back into Iraq to seize their natural resources? You know, THAT guy?

And as for Cuba? The policy of our embargo has only been kept since the end of the Cold War because the Cuban-American voting block in Florida has been a reliable vote for the GOP since they play up the whole "tough on Castro" act. But Cuba isn't a threat to the U.S. and the only time it ever was happened because, oh, lo' and behold, RUSSIA wanted to put nuclear weapons on the island. Had relations, diplomatic and economic been opened in the 90's the Castro regime probably would have fallen. How having diplomatic relations with a country that poses no actual threat to us is "cozying up" is again, baffling.

But... All that is lost on folks like you cuz ya'll refuse to believe in anything approaching rationality or wisdom or practicality.

 

[bell110]

So a hostile, authoritarian regime had the power to blackmail an Obama crony so they help them undermine the presidential election to gain full government power and secrets under their watch.

When did that happen with Obama?

Russia didn't undermine the election. That's the type of nonsense the Democrats and the media is pushing because they can't admit Hillary lost because of her own record. Obama himself said the election was secure.

But Obama did make friends with long time enemies of the US, Iran and Cuba.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Russia didn't undermine the election. That's the type of nonsense the Democrats and the media is pushing because they can't admit Hillary lost because of her own record. Obama himself said the election was secure.

But Obama did make friends with long time enemies of the US, Iran and Cuba.

Russia did actively inject themselves into the election and said actions were all for the benefit of Trump. You want to debate the effect of that? Fine.

If you want to discount that the information of Russian involvement didn't come from the media but actually comes from American intelligence you are free to. You'd be stunningly separated from reality but you have that right. Thing is... You can only deny reality for so long before it bites you on the ass. The media didn't invent this. This is from our own government agencies. There is far more reason to investigate this thoroughly than there ever was for the "scandals" of Libya or that server.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Russia didn't undermine the election. That's the type of nonsense the Democrats and the media is pushing because they can't admit Hillary lost because of her own record. Obama himself said the election was secure.

But Obama did make friends with long time enemies of the US, Iran and Cuba.

Trump was alerted that Flynn could be a serious security breach because Putin might be able to black mail him.

This is not based on some obscure Mother Jones article. It is public record at this point.

Flynn possibly being blackmailed by Russian intelligence and still given access to most of America's biggest secrets could've become one of the biggest intelligence breaches in US History.

(Thank God it was leaked)

But Hillary's emails deserved how many investigations and hearings?

It's almost as if Hillary did the collusion with a hostile, authoritarian power and undermined our presidential elections and national security to the fullest extent, not the Trump campain.

 

[KevanG]

Yesterdays enemies are tomorrows allies.

Things change over years and decades, political alliances change and things you'd never expect countries to do, they go and do. Hell, look at Terminator 2. They had a line that went along the lines of "Why attack Russia? Aren't they our friends now?" That was just after the Cold War ended and the USSR dissolved. Put that in context of today and you'd get weird looks from everyone if you put that in a blockbuster movie.

Trying to make allies all over the world is smart and even if they were opponents for the last few decades, it's always worth trying to be friendly as you never know how it will pay off. It doesn't matter how big you are and how powerful you are, everyone needs friends.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

It's also pretty obtuse to clain that Obama made Cuba and Iran our "friends".

We aren't tied to those nations the way we are to say, the U.K. or Australia.

*This isn't directed at you Kev.

 

[KevanG]

I figured but I appreciate the reassurance.

 

[Sithborg]

It's also pretty obtuse to clain that Obama made Cuba and Iran our "friends".

We aren't tied to those nations the way we are to say, the U.K. or Australia.

*This isn't directed at you Kev.

Or where. Trump almost seems to want to upend decades long allies. Though, the Iran war hawking seems a bit weird for a Russian puppet, since they are allies to Russia.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Yesterdays enemies are tomorrows allies.

Things change over years and decades, political alliances change and things you'd never expect countries to do, they go and do. Hell, look at Terminator 2. They had a line that went along the lines of "Why attack Russia? Aren't they our friends now?" That was just after the Cold War ended and the USSR dissolved. Put that in context of today and you'd get weird looks from everyone if you put that in a blockbuster movie.

Trying to make allies all over the world is smart and even if they were opponents for the last few decades, it's always worth trying to be friendly as you never know how it will pay off. It doesn't matter how big you are and how powerful you are, everyone needs friends.

None of these rogue nations are our friends.

Anyone who disregards human rights and civil liberties are hostiles, that includes Cuba and Iran (it includes Trump too actually).

The main difference is Cuba and Iran didn't infiltrate our democratic and national security apparatus which is kind of a big deal if you think about it.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Or where. Trump almost seems to want to upend decades long allies. Though, the Iran war hawking seems a bit weird for a Russian puppet, since they are allies to Russia.

Being anti-American helps the Iranian regime consolidate power within their borders.

Ditto for Trump's anti-Iranian rhetoric within our borders.

 

[MaceB]

Russia didn't undermine the election. That's the type of nonsense the Democrats and the media is pushing because they can't admit Hillary lost because of her own record. Obama himself said the election was secure.

Russians did hack the DNC and they did work to disseminate false info to confuse voters. Hillary lost because she was a bad candidate, but Trump won, in part, through the help of a hostile foreign power. Deal with it.

But Obama did make friends with long time enemies of the US, Iran and Cuba.

Well you can't make friends with your allies, can you? Making friends out of enemies is usually a pretty good goal worth trying. You make this sound like it's bad, when Obama got our biggest diplomatic foe to agree to UN inspections and a draw down of their nuclear material. Obama got our biggest enemy to disarm and to allow inspectors in to their country in order to prove it... so, yeah, I guess Obama did make friends with them. He should be hailed as a patriot and a hero for the work he did to ease tensions between our two countries. Instead, we just have foolish people like yourself clamoring for more military action where our men and women die needlessly. In three weeks, our Republican elected president has nearly wiped out all of that progress and threatened this historic agreement with our greatest foe. Shameful.

 

[Sithborg]

Don't forget, there is evidence that they hacked the RNC as well.

 

[SV Fan]

Russia didn't undermine the election. That's the type of nonsense the Democrats and the media is pushing because they can't admit Hillary lost because of her own record.

You are acting as if it's an either or scenario. I don't think that the Russians interfering is the only thing that made Hillary lose but to act like it made no difference at all would be lying. My guess is at the end of the day their interference had less then a 1% effect on the voters but when you look at some states that could have made all the difference(mainly Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan, all which Trump won by 0.7% or less. You might even throw Florida in their but he won that state by 1.1%)

But Obama did make friends with long time enemies of the US, Iran and Cuba.

For the sake of argument the US embargo on Cuba is/was ridiculous. They pose 0 threat to the US and the only reason we still have the embargo is because of pandering to a bunch of voters in Southern Florida. If the US could let bygones be bygones with Vietnam they sure as hell could let their beef go with Cuba.

In the case of Iran, Obama didn't become friends with them, he just eased up on some restrictions in place for Iran in exchange that they agree to some stuff. If Israel and Saudi Arabia have issues with Iran let that be their problem not ours. It's int he US best economic interest to have a better relationship with Iran and in all reality in the past 30+ years what exactly have they done bad to us? I should probably add on the terrorist front I do think Iran is more secular(not saying they are secular) then most countries in the Middle East so I think so I think an Iran as part of the economic community could be a huge boon for the war on terror.

 

[LoganGambit87]

Kid Rock's name was thrown around as a potential Republican candidate for a Michigan seat during the state's Republican convention this past weekend.
https://twitter.com/i/moments/831944090128363520

 

[SV Fan]

Kid Rock's name was thrown around as a potential Republican candidate for a Michigan seat during the state's Republican convention this past weekend.
https://twitter.com/i/moments/831944090128363520

Republicans have a legitimate shot of winning that seat(I would say it's a leans Democrat but I wouldn't be surprised if the Dems lost it) , why would they waste it on Kid Rock who would turn a leans Democrat to Likely Democrat

 

[Marvolo]

Kid Rock's name was thrown around as a potential Republican candidate for a Michigan seat during the state's Republican convention this past weekend.
https://twitter.com/i/moments/831944090128363520

This is the equivilant of drunk teens trying to shoot bottle rockets out of their anus.

 

[Sithborg]

Yeah, the mid term is going to be bad for any Republican in MI. With the governor race in full swing, bet on backlash against Snyder and the poisoning of Flint.

Which is why it boggles my mind why Hillary didn't put in respectable effort here.

 

[Fading]

Russia did actively inject themselves into the election and said actions were all for the benefit of Trump. You want to debate the effect of that? Fine.

If you want to discount that the information of Russian involvement didn't come from the media but actually comes from American intelligence you are free to. You'd be stunningly separated from reality but you have that right. Thing is... You can only deny reality for so long before it bites you on the ass. The media didn't invent this. This is from our own government agencies. There is far more reason to investigate this thoroughly than there ever was for the "scandals" of Libya or that server.

Well bell also said Obama said the election went just fine, as part of his no Russian interference spiel. Yet Obama put sanctions on Russia, and kicked Russia diplomats out of the country over Russia hacking us. On top of what you're saying to his statement of the Russia hacks being a democrat/media concoction to cover for Hillary, despite the information having come straight from our intelligence agencies directly.

As for his Iran deflecting, he's like Trump with China. Trying to make nice with Iran is not an apples to apples comparison with current affairs. Russia hacked us (as well as Germany, and France). Recently got caught with a spy ship right off of Delaware. Is secretly talking with members of Trump's administration. Just recently worked against us in Syria.

Trying to work with a long time troubled region to improve relations. Gain a stronger alliance in the middle east. Prevent nuclear weapons from being built. As well as work against giving terrorists further propaganda against us is =/= to Russia messing with us while we play nice with them. Russia is the one actively causing problems, why should we bow to them, or make apologies for their current actions?

 

[KevanG]

None of these rogue nations are our friends.

Anyone who disregards human rights and civil liberties are hostiles, that includes Cuba and Iran (it includes Trump too actually).

The main difference is Cuba and Iran didn't infiltrate our democratic and national security apparatus which is kind of a big deal if you think about it.

I'm not saying they should be considered friendly nations/close allies but at the least America shouldn't be trying to force every other country on the planet to actively hate them.

 

[mclay18]

Jeff Sessions' top priority as Justice Department head is religious freedom

http://www.wral.com/religious-freedom-could-top-sessions-civil-rights-priorities/16530288/

This guy makes me ashamed to be associated with Methodism.