Discussion: The REPUBLICAN Party VIII

[moraldeficiency]

Maybe among friends who've developed that relationship.

Among strangers, it just makes you a jerk.

We are friends. At least that's how I feel about you. Now I'm just hurt.

 

[Marx]

Can we cut the snarky banter and stick to the topic at hand please?

 

[moraldeficiency]

When did I say the entire system would be torn down?

The DOE would go away, but all the educational systems in the States as they are would still be in effect if the DOE disappeared tomorrow. (And it wouldn't just go away, it would take time to replace it with some other system.)

The point is that the States could all start working with what they have, and go from there. There doesn't need to be a blank slate. There couldn't be a blank slate. Even if a State decided to try and rewrite their entire system, they have to leave the current one in place while they write it up. And then they still have to push the new system through the political process before it gets put into play. I think there's be a lot of nervous state politicians none to thrilled to put their jobs on the line when they can no longer blame the Federal government when the angry voters come.


As for the religious argument. Since that currently is considered to violate the First Amendment, those schools/states can expect a phone call from the US Attorney General. And any unhappy parents living there.

The DOE is that system, it's the thing that regulates the states. So yes you did say you'd tear it down and let the states (I believe you called it) "experiment". Which is just a horrible idea on so many levels.

So now you want them to tax more for new systems? You want what we currently have plus? We just recently slashed the hell out of the education budget, where's this money coming from?

Calls from the fed without any power other than a stern warning? You're kidding right?

As for the parents it's been shown if the majority supports it in education it almost always happens. If 90% of parents demanded jesus prayer in school after 3rd period and it was left up to that state official who was elected by the 90% guess what happens?

What state do you think would actually get this right? Or states? Which ones do you think would fail? Or do you think no state would fail with this? What penalties would you impose federally if the states failed at your guidelines? How do you actually see this working and based on what before? How many children are ok to experiment with right now?

If you can't answer the above questions easily and honestly then we aren't ready to get rid of the DOE and it's just talking about something to talk about it. I mean it seems like you're going off this standard that of course states would do this better independently just off the data and precedence that state gov. is good and the feds are bad, mmmkay.

 

[Superman]

I have to say that I've really enjoyed reading this debate between moraldeficiency and wiegeabo and that I agree with moraldeficiency 100% in his opinion on how getting rid of the DOE is a very bad ideal.

Keep it up moraldeficiency.

 

[Kelly]

IF the DOE was audited, and jobs that are not needed were done away with....those jobs would be the ones that are redundant, and I think there are many. I think they could cut their budget by at least 10% and if they can't, then those that are in charge of their budgets within the DOE should be fired. If you can't find ways to offset those cuts you should not have that job. My budget in my department was drastically cut this year, and I was able to change products bought, looked at areas that were just not working efficiently, and I was able to find the money without my department hurting one bit. AND, get rid of NCLB....it is ineffective, inefficient, and a waste of tax payer dollars.

The DOE has been "experimenting" since its inception.....it is run by people that have absolutely no clue what goes on in the classrooms across America. It is killing the Advanced Academics across our nation, and creating a massive "brain drain" in this country.

Increase the school year to 220 days...
Begin year around school, and change from the Agrarian Calendar of the 1700s,.....and yes, for those interested, we ARE using the same exact calendar that we used in the 1700s....

Do those things, and I would have no problem whatsoever the DOE staying in place. But, as of right now, it is a department that is a black hole for tax money that does absolutely nothing to further the education of our young people.

 

[Marvolo]

IF the DOE was audited, and jobs that are not needed were done away with....those jobs would be the ones that are redundant, and I think there are many. I think they could cut their budget by at least 10% and if they can't, then those that are in charge of their budgets within the DOE should be fired. If you can't find ways to offset those cuts you should not have that job. My budget in my department was drastically cut this year, and I was able to change products bought, looked at areas that were just not working efficiently, and I was able to find the money without my department hurting one bit. AND, get rid of NCLB....it is ineffective, inefficient, and a waste of tax payer dollars.

The DOE has been "experimenting" since its inception.....it is run by people that have absolutely no clue what goes on in the classrooms across America. It is killing the Advanced Academics across our nation, and creating a massive "brain drain" in this country.

Increase the school year to 220 days...
Begin year around school, and change from the Agrarian Calendar of the 1700s,.....and yes, for those interested, we ARE using the same exact calendar that we used in the 1700s....

Do those things, and I would have no problem whatsoever the DOE staying in place. But, as of right now, it is a department that is a black hole for tax money that does absolutely nothing to further the education of our young people.

The agrarian calendar is the scapegoat for why kids get summer off. If you care to learn why kids actually get summer off read these two informative links.

http://www.eduskeptic.com/2009/01/agraian-calendar-no-its-not-hasnt-been-either/

http://stateimpact.npr.org/ohio/201...f-and-the-agrarian-calendar-isnt-one-of-them/

Kids forget just as much in a 1 month break as a three month break. Year around schools are not going to be some magical fix all for education and rather than looking back at a system of education that we no longer use we need to look forward to a new system.

Focusing on the school years schedule is the wrong place to focus. Fixing the curriculum and firing the piss poor teachers is the place to start.

 

[moraldeficiency]

IF the DOE was audited, and jobs that are not needed were done away with....those jobs would be the ones that are redundant, and I think there are many. I think they could cut their budget by at least 10% and if they can't, then those that are in charge of their budgets within the DOE should be fired. If you can't find ways to offset those cuts you should not have that job. My budget in my department was drastically cut this year, and I was able to change products bought, looked at areas that were just not working efficiently, and I was able to find the money without my department hurting one bit. AND, get rid of NCLB....it is ineffective, inefficient, and a waste of tax payer dollars.

The DOE has been "experimenting" since its inception.....it is run by people that have absolutely no clue what goes on in the classrooms across America. It is killing the Advanced Academics across our nation, and creating a massive "brain drain" in this country.

Increase the school year to 220 days...
Begin year around school, and change from the Agrarian Calendar of the 1700s,.....and yes, for those interested, we ARE using the same exact calendar that we used in the 1700s....

Do those things, and I would have no problem whatsoever the DOE staying in place. But, as of right now, it is a department that is a black hole for tax money that does absolutely nothing to further the education of our young people.

The first paragraph I would completely agree with.

There are several other factors which account for that brain drain and stopping blocks that I don't think you're addressing. You can't blame all educational failures on the DOE much as I'd like to.

I would agree about school days but that calendar thing? Is that really what's holding people back in your opinion?

The DOE is just set up to try to ensure standards across the board in this nation. I agree with most of your changes with the exception of your calendar shenanigans. But I think you're being naive about how easy it would be to say fight things like teacher's unions or PTA's on some of those fronts.

All educating is experimenting to a degree. But to unleash 50 states' thoughts on how to educate better, which would certainly be decided by politicians rather than educators? I can't see any improvements made on that front.

 

[moraldeficiency]

The agrarian calendar is the scapegoat for why kids get summer off. If you care to learn why kids actually get summer off read these two informative links.

http://www.eduskeptic.com/2009/01/agraian-calendar-no-its-not-hasnt-been-either/

http://stateimpact.npr.org/ohio/201...f-and-the-agrarian-calendar-isnt-one-of-them/

Kids forget just as much in a 1 month break as a three month break. Year around schools are not going to be some magical fix all for education and rather than looking back at a system of education that we no longer use we need to look forward to a new system.

Focusing on the school years schedule is the wrong place to focus. Fixing the curriculum and firing the piss poor teachers is the place to start.

This, in just every way. I completely agree with everything said.

 

[Kelly]

The agrarian calendar is the scapegoat for why kids get summer off. If you care to learn why kids actually get summer off read these two informative links.

http://www.eduskeptic.com/2009/01/agraian-calendar-no-its-not-hasnt-been-either/

http://stateimpact.npr.org/ohio/201...f-and-the-agrarian-calendar-isnt-one-of-them/

Kids forget just as much in a 1 month break as a three month break. Year around schools are not going to be some magical fix all for education and rather than looking back at a system of education that we no longer use we need to look forward to a new system.

Focusing on the school years schedule is the wrong place to focus. Fixing the curriculum and firing the piss poor teachers is the place to start.

I agree, firing piss poor teachers is a good thing, but unions will never let that happen.

Who said to only focus on the school years schedule? That is simply a place to start.

School districts are already focusing on better curriculum, I make a good deal of my money improving curriculum right now, so I know for a fact that is happening.

And you are correct year around school on a 177-180 year course structure there is very little retention. One month off is too much at a time in my opinion.

Also, most year around schools are in low income areas at the moment, that have far more problems than just retention.

 

[Victarion]

Parents would never stand for year 'round school. In the interest of being a rabble rouser, neither would I even though I've been done with it for going on five years now.

Seems silly.

 

[wiegeabo]

I'm trying to figure out how the ED needs a $70+billion budget. That comes out to over $14 million per employee.

Forget cutting it's budget by 10%. I'd be surprised if it couldn't be cut by 90%.

 

[enterthemadness]

ED...err..Enviromental Department?

 

[Victarion]

Encyclopedia Dramatica.

 

[wiegeabo]

Education Department.

That's the official identifier for the Department of Education.

DOE is Department of Energy. I knew it felt wrong typing it, but couldn't think of why. i should have remembered. The stuff I got from them when I taught was marked ED.

 

[bell110]

Breaking News!!! Huntsman is drop out of the race....

I'm kind of disappointed that he didn't stick it out longer. He barely got a shot to be the Not-Romney candidate.

 

[8wid]

Is Ron Paul as radical as another Theodore Roosevelt or Dwight Eisenhower in stance towards corporations?

 

[Venom'sDad]

I'm kind of disappointed that he didn't stick it out longer. He barely got a shot to be the Not-Romney candidate.

He is more of a moderate, just right of Romney, so he would have not qualified as a "Anti-Romney" candidate....basically on the same plain as Romney who is actually more Progressive than Moderate. Neitherless, Huntsman would have just risen, get veted, than fall, like all the rest, minus Paul. The Establishment and MSM is not going to allow any other candidate, to rise, to become the Republican Nominee. This is a fact....and one should either just vote against Romney, or accept the fact he is.....which many have done exactly that, after hearing day after day, since September, that he is the favorite, or is the only one capable of beating Obama.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I'm kind of disappointed that he didn't stick it out longer. He barely got a shot to be the Not-Romney candidate.

That's because the Not-Romney vote came from die hard conservatives, not moderates that Romney locked up for himself.

 

[8wid]

Perry will be next after South Carolina, Gingrich and Santorum after Florida. Paul will hold off until the next set of primaries as Romney wins them all. He'll look like a fool doing it, but Romney is mistaken too because he is going to narrowly lose Obama in November. It'll be nice to see Paul go further, but it's just not likely.

 

[Venom'sDad]

CNN Poll says, Ron Paul moves neck to neck with Obama

So much with the idea that Romney is the only candidate capable of beating Obama....now if Paul can just seize the nomination from the establishment & MSM(main stream media).

 

[Venom'sDad]

Gingrich & Santorum is intent on remaining until Super Tuesday....beside, I still think Santorum is on the cusp of sliding, which will keep Gingrich in it for a much longer period. Santorum has to get more than 10% in SC and 14% in FL to continue; otherwise, he's done, and may not make it to Super Tuesday.

 

[hippie_hunter]

CNN Poll says, Ron Paul moves neck to neck with Obama

So much with the idea that Romney is the only candidate capable of beating Obama....now if Paul can just seize the nomination from the establishment & MSM(main stream media).

Polls have also shown that Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich are neck and neck with Obama at times.

 

[Venom'sDad]

Have not seen one, and I gage them regularly.

 

[Kelly]

LOL, Newt: "99 weeks on unemployment is an associates degree".....

I don't like Newt personally, but I like that sentiment.... 99 weeks is FAR too long.

 

[enterthemadness]

Paul went to school. On the military vs defense spending.