Discussion: The Supreme Court

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Justices say Bush went too far at Guantanamo

5-3 ruling says military trials would violate U.S. law, Geneva conventions

Associated Press said:
WASHINGTON - The Supreme Court ruled Thursday that President Bush overstepped his authority in ordering military war crimes trials for Guantanamo Bay detainees.

The ruling, a rebuke to the administration and its aggressive anti-terror policies, was written by Justice John Paul Stevens, who said the proposed trials were illegal under U.S. law and international Geneva conventions.

In brief comments, Bush said he will work with Congress to get approval to try terrorism suspects before military tribunals.

To the extent that there is latitude to work with the Congress to determine whether or not the military tribunals will be an avenue in which to give people their day in court, we will do so,” he said. “The American people need to know that the ruling, as I understand it, won’t cause killers to be put out on the street.”

The case focused on Salim Ahmed Hamdan, a Yemeni who worked as a bodyguard and driver for Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan. Hamdan, 36, has spent four years in the U.S. prison in Cuba. He faces a single count of conspiring against U.S. citizens from 1996 to November 2001.

The ruling raises major questions about the legal status of about 450 men still being held at Guantanamo and exactly how, when and where the administration might pursue the charges against them.

It also seems likely to further fuel international criticism of the
administration, including by many U.S. allies, for its handling of the terror war detainees at Guantanamo in Cuba, Abu Ghraib in Iraq and elsewhere.
Two years ago, the court rejected Bush’s claim to have the authority to seize and detain terrorism suspects and indefinitely deny them access to courts or lawyers. In this follow-up case, the justices focused solely on the issue of trials for some of the men.

Moderate joins liberals
The vote was split 5-3, with moderate Justice Anthony M. Kennedy joining the court’s liberal members in ruling against the Bush administration. Chief Justice John Roberts, named to the lead the court last September by Bush, was sidelined in the case because as an appeals court judge he had backed the government over Hamdan.

Thursday’s ruling, handed down on the last day of the court’s 2005-06 term, overturned that decision.

Bush spokesman Tony Snow said the White House would have no comment until lawyers had had a chance to review the decision. Officials at the Pentagon and Justice Department were planning to issue statements later in the day.

The administration had hinted in recent weeks that it was prepared for the court to set back its plans for trying Guantanamo detainees.

The president also has told reporters, “I’d like to close Guantanamo.” But he added, “I also recognize that we’re holding some people that are darn dangerous.”

Other justices make comments
Justice Clarence Thomas wrote a strongly worded dissent and took the unusual step of reading part of it from the bench — something he had never done before in his 15 years.

He said the court’s decision would “sorely hamper the president’s ability to confront and defeat a new and deadly enemy.”

The court’s willingness, Thomas wrote in the dissent, “to second-guess the determination of the political branches that these conspirators must be brought to justice is both unprecedented and dangerous.”

Justices Antonin Scalia and Samuel Alito also filed dissents.

In his own opinion siding with the majority, Justice Stephen Breyer said that “Congress has not issued the executive a ’blank check.”’

“Indeed, Congress has denied the president the legislative authority to create military commissions of the kind at issue here. Nothing prevents the president from returning to Congress to seek the authority he believes necessary,” Breyer wrote.

Justices also rejected the administration’s claim that the case should be thrown out on grounds that a new law stripped their authority to consider it.

“It’s certainly a nail in the coffin for the idea that the president can set up these trials,” said Barbara Olshansky, legal director of the Center for Constitutional Rights, which represents about 300 Guantanamo detainees.

No word on prison status
The court’s ruling says nothing about whether the prison should be shut down, dealing only with plans to put detainees on trial.

“Trial by military commission raises separation-of-powers concerns of the highest order,” Kennedy wrote in his opinion.

The prison at Guantanamo Bay, erected in the months after the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks on the United States, has been a flash point for international criticism. Hundreds of people suspected of ties to al-Qaida and the Taliban — including some teenagers — have been swept up by the U.S. military and secretly shipped there since 2002.

Three detainees committed suicide there this month, using sheets and clothing to hang themselves. The deaths brought new scrutiny and criticism of the prison, along with fresh calls for its closing.

Hamdan claims the military commissions established by the Pentagon on Bush’s orders are flawed because they violate basic military justice protections.

Hamdan says he is innocent and worked as a driver for bin Laden in Afghanistan only to eke out a living for his family.
The case is Hamdan v. Rumsfeld, 05-184.

© 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
 
Oh, were my war crimes against the laws?

Uh oh... SPA-GHETTI-OS!
 
Except those combatants were never protected by the Geneva convention.
 
War Lord said:
Except those combatants were never protected by the Geneva convention.

seems like the supreme court doesn't share that opinion.
 
Emrys said:
seems like the supreme court doesn't share that opinion.

The Supreme court, being unaccountable, doesn't have to worry about the consequences of making hard decisions.
 
lol

One of the most revealing things is to see how this is being reported. Most media outlets are falling all over themselves trying to portray this as a direct loss for GW Bush. When in fact it is just another bone headed ruling by the Supreme Court.

Elected representatives will always trump the judiciary. So lets wait and see how this shakes out.
 
Truthteller said:
lol

One of the most revealing things is to see how this is being reported. Most media outlets are falling all over themselves trying to portray this as a direct loss for GW Bush. When in fact it is just another bone headed ruling by the Supreme Court.

Elected representatives will always trump the judiciary. So lets wait and see how this shakes out.

ah so elected representatives can ignore the law?
 
Emrys said:
ah so elected representatives can ignore the law?

The Supreme court is beyond its jurisdiction when it's handling cases that don't involve its citizens.

So quite possibly, yes.
 
War Lord said:
The Supreme court, being unaccountable, doesn't have to worry about the consequences of making hard decisions.

Hard decisions like ignoring the constitution and international treaties? Interesting so if the laws don't suit us we ignore them?
 
War Lord said:
The Supreme court is beyond its jurisdiction when it's handling cases that don't involve its citizens.

So quite possibly, yes.

the problem is, the constitution does not only account for citizens. Last time I checked it says "all people" not just "all US citizens"
 
Emrys said:
Hard decisions like ignoring the constitution and international treaties? Interesting so if the laws don't suit us we ignore them?

That's why laws aren't hardened in stone, because when laws are created, there can come a day when they aren't any longer appropriate to have.
 
Emrys said:
the problem is, the constitution does not only account for citizens. Last time I checked it says "all people" not just "all US citizens"

So, you'll respect how the US constitution applies to you over in Switzerland?
That should a law in your country conflict with the US constitution, you'll feel bound to strike down the law?
 
War Lord said:
So, you'll respect how the US constitution applies to you over in Switzerland?
That should a law in your country conflict with the US constitution, you'll feel bound to strike down the law?


You miss the point, Jonty. The detainees are on American soil, being held by the American government, which has standards it is supposed to live up to, as outlined in the Constitution.
 
War Lord said:
So, you'll respect how the US constitution applies to you over in Switzerland?
That should a law in your country conflict with the US constitution, you'll feel bound to strike down the law?
We'll if an US citizen is held here he is granted the same rights as a switzerland citizen in terms of due process and all that other stuff.

So how is it unreasonable to expect that someone who is held captive by US forces is granted the same rights to a trial and all ?
 
bored said:
You miss the point, Jonty. The detainees are on American soil, being held by the American government, which has standards it is supposed to live up to, as outlined in the Constitution.

That's fine. The only alternative to the Bush administration is to ultimately let them go create havoc whereever they are], because trying them in a civilian court is not going to happen.
 
War Lord said:
That's why laws aren't hardened in stone, because when laws are created, there can come a day when they aren't any longer appropriate to have.

ahhh okay so we uphold the laws only when it suits our agenda and here I though someone like you doesn't believe in relativism.
 
Emrys said:
We'll if an US citizen is held here he is granted the same rights as a switzerland citizen in terms of due process and all that other stuff.

So how is it unreasonable to expect that someone who is held captive by US forces is granted the same rights to a trial and all ?

Because, between a choice of letting the person go or reveal national secrets, letting the person go is preferable.
 
War Lord said:
That's fine. The only alternative to the Bush administration is to ultimately let them go create havoc whereever they are], because trying them in a civilian court is not going to happen.

and pray tell me, why is that not an option?
 
War Lord said:
That's fine. The only alternative to the Bush administration is to ultimately let them go create havoc whereever they are], because trying them in a civilian court is not going to happen.


Why not? They're not soldiers, so trying them as criminals in a civilian court makes sense. That the only alternative is to let them go is illogical.
 
War Lord said:
That's why laws aren't hardened in stone, because when laws are created, there can come a day when they aren't any longer appropriate to have.
True. Someone should've told this moron:


moses.jpg
 
Emrys said:
ahhh okay so we uphold the laws only when it suits our agenda and here I though someone like you doesn't believe in relativism.

It's not about upholding laws that I find preferable, but the understanding that laws that were appropriate at one time, aren't always so.
 
bored said:
Why not? They're not soldiers, so trying them as criminals in a civilian court makes sense. That the only alternative is to let them go is illogical.


Concur.
 
War Lord said:
Because, between a choice of letting the person go or reveal national secrets, letting the person go is preferable.

national secrets??? what do the detainees in Guantanamo have to do with national secrets?
 
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