Do you accept the theory of evolution? - Part 1

I would disagree with that - we have scientific evidence of "winged giant reptiles" existing in terms of countless fossils, we have zero scientific evidence of man-dogs. It's the time frame of their existance, not whether they existed at all, that comes into question when we look at ancient accounts (if you so chose to look at them in more than an entertainment fashion).

But not ones that date back to the time of American Indians or Egyptians. Nothing has ever reliably placed a fossil like that in those times, so all you have to base it on is a coincidence in the imagery that, again, is shared in many mythologies...from times tat also share a complete lack of fossil evidence that remotely corroborate it.

I will have to side with Schlosser though - it's within the realm of possibility that some type of dinosaur(s) outlived it's brethern 65 million years ago for some amount of time (excluding our current-day organisms evolutionary ancestors). Plenty of other organisms survived the meteorite and even flurish to this day. But a real life Flinstones? Nah.


Also, you have to consider this.

If you look at the skeleton of an elephant...with all its flesh removed and skattered about...it really doesn't look like an elephant. In fact, it could easily be deciphered to be the skeleton of a large cyclops or the like...if you didn't specifically know it came from an elephant. Also...look up the skeleton of a dolphin, then think again about the tales of a flying serpent. If you were a person a couple of thousand years ago, without the education or common knowledge that we have today, and you saw one of those on a beach....what would you think it was?

There is a lot of lack in understanding and scientific identifiability of simple things like living whales breaching the surface or their washed-up carcasses that could easily have contributed to imagery in folklore. Basically, takes of 'monsters' in mythology and folklore generally speak more to the human condition than they do the real, tangible natural world of the time.
 
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But not ones that date back to the time of American Indians or Egyptians. Nothing has ever reliably placed a fossil like that in those times, so all yo have to base it on is a coincidence in the imagery that, again, is shared in many mythologies.

It isn't a coincidence though. Like the shared mythologies, its borne from civilizationd expanding and evolving into new cultures, and differing cultures coming into contact with eachother and assimilating one another's stories and bits of culture. It's the "telephone game" on a global level. But we can't really know what of these tales have a shred of truth, and what was just that culture's form of a comic book. Sure, some are FAR more obvious than others, but with others, there is some euhemerism at play to some extent. The fun is trying to figure out which and to what extent there is any truth, and how that truth evolved into the myths we know of.

If you look at the skeleton of an elephant...with all its flesh removed and skattered about...it really doesn't look like an elephant. In fact, it could easily be deciphered to be the skeleton of a large cyclops or the like...if you didn't specifically know it came from an elephant. Also...look up the skeleton of a dolphin, then think again about the takes of a flying serpent. There is a lot of lack in understanding and scientific identifiability of simple things like living whales breaching the surface or their washed-up carcasses that could easily have contributed to imagery in folklore. Basically, takes of 'monsters' in mythology and folklore generally speak more to the human condition than they do the real, tangible natural world of the time.

Very familiar with this idea. Which brings me back to the Cambodian carving of a stegosaurus and how remarkable it is that they were able to recreate or at least understand the fossils they saw enough to depict it accurately, when other cultures in a similar timeframe thought elephant bones were giant cyclopses. Hell, even recently, a japanese fishing boat pulled up a rotting basking shark remains and people jumped onto the plesiosaur train without a second thought.
 
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:pal:

You people act like scientists are so holy & they don't do no wrong. You evolutionists are in NO position to accuse somebody of ignoring facts & data when evolutionists have been ignoring facts & data for decades. And here's one example of what I'm talking about:

Carbon dating was proven to be inaccurate a long time ago but yet evolutionists were still using it to prove that the earth is 4.54 billion years old, or to prove that dinosaurs died off millions of years ago.

A few examples of wild dates by radiometric dating:

1. Shells from living snails were carbon dated as being 27,000 years old.

2. Living mollusk shells were dated up to 2,300 years old.

3. A freshly killed seal was carbon dated as having died 1,300 years ago.

4. “One part of the Vollosovitch mammoth carbon dated at 29,500 years and another part at 44,000.”

5. “Structure, metamorphism, sedimentary reworking, and other complications have to be considered. Radiometric dating would not have been feasible if the geologic column had not been erected first.”

6. Material from layers where dinosaurs are found carbon dated at 34,000 years old.

:lmao:

That big lmao smiley only serves to underline just how ignorant you are about this subject. You talk about carbon dating, which is only good for a little over 50,000 years, then proceed to list a number of things that would date back millions. C14 has been calibrated and proven to be quite accurate. It does have limitations, such as nothing less than 150 years due to excessive carbon in the atmosphere during the Industrial Revolution and nuclear testing in the 50's and nothing over 50,000 due to the characteristics of the carbon isotope.

Radiometric dating is used for older rock strata. Not live objects or objects that contain organic matter.

So you have managed another useless list of data that does nothing but underline your ignorance. But the smiley was a nice touch. Keep up the good work champ.

I wanted to add to this since I have my computer and not doing this on my phone.

1/2. The living snails and mollusk shells that were dated at 27,000 years were in a limestone sinkhole and did not have access to atmospheric C14, but were getting it from the limestone itself, hence the older dates.

3. Again, not taking into account where the seal got the C14; the prey fish feed on zooplankton brought up by ocean currents from the sea floor.

4. The mammoth tale is all Kent Hovind. The original paper has no such dates, and the measurements it does have are from different mammoths by different people. The entire line is a falsehood.

5. Here is the entire quote, minus the editing:

"Even after the analyses are calculated as dates, they have no geologic significance until placed in the context of previous work on maps. Otherwise each anlysis represents only its particular sample. Structure, metamorphism, sedimentary reworking, and other complications have to be considered. Radiometric dating would not have been feasible if the geologic column had not been erected first.

The technique having passed its pragmatic test, some enthusiasts are already talking about its replacing stratigraphy entirely. They even say that radiometric dates calibrate stratigraphy (Vita-Finzi, 1973 p. xi, p. 1-3).

The axiom that no process can measure itself means that there is no absolute time, but this relic of the traditional mechanics persists in the common distinction between 'relative' and 'absolute' age. How can age be anything but relative, when it requires comparison of at least two points, whereas absolute means existing without relation or qualification? 'Absolute age' is a self-contradiction. For this reason, and for giving an exaggerated impression of certainty, the term was deplored by the very man who did the most to make radiometric dating practical (Holmes, 1963, p. xx-xxi)."

But Christians never deceive anyone, do they?

6. Obviously, we don't use C14 to date dinosaur layers. Too old for the method.
 
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It isn't a coincidence though. Like the shared mythologies, its borne from civilizationd expanding and evolving into new cultures, and differing cultures coming into contact with eachother and assimilating one another's stories and bits of culture. It's the "telephone game" on a global level. But we can't really know what of these tales have a shred of truth, and what was just that culture's form of a comic book. Sure, some are FAR more obvious than others, but with others, there is some euhemerism at play to some extent. The fun is trying to figure out which and to what extent there is any truth, and how that truth evolved into the myths we know of.

It is a coincidence in terms of similarities, but again, it speaks more to imagery common to the human condition, not the plausibility of it being based on real, accurate accounts. The fact that it is done for the sake of art and folklore, again, speaks a lot for that, since it wasn't serving the purpose of science and real/applicable knowledge. It's important to make these distinctions since we have the knowledge and ability to.

Of course, it's dramatic and cool to think that it was...like with mermaids and dragons, etc...but scientifically very improbable. Besides, we already see the remnants of dinosaurs today every time we see a bird....there's the wonder and awe of it all around us.
 
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No. I REFUSE to believe the chicken I ate last night used to be a T. Rex. :csad:

It was a stupid spinosaur. :awesome:
 
13th Foundational Falsehood of Creationism

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Every "evolutionist hoax" ever alleged was either fabricated or misrepresented to such a degree that each contributes to a growing list of creationist frauds.
 
Ok then give me information from these testings. I want to know what happened in these laboratories with these fruit flies, mice, and bacteria.
Here are some references:

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v457/n7231/full/nature07892.html -- this is the one with the fruit flies, and it also mentions the mice

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v446/n7134/full/446386a.html -- this involves microorganisms

http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1471-2148-5-17.pdf -- this is one about the cichlid

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18582563 Here is one involving ecology and evolution in microbial systems.

http://www.broadinstitute.org/scien...rtebrates-invertebrates/tilapia/tilapia-genom -- Here is the Tilapia Genome Project

More fruit flies: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/08/120810144715.htm

Actually, there are no transitional fossils. Those so-called transitional fossils were proven to not be transitional fossils after all.
Actually, here is a list of transitional fossils:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transitional_fossils
http://www.transitionalfossils.com/


:pal: I'm glad you brought up that ape/human DNA similarity bull-ish.

Apes could NEVER evolve into humans and this is why:

Steve Jones
Scientist, Evolutionist

An exceptional quote to begin with, revealing that specific, pinpointed similarities between two separate species can mean very little. Baboons, according to research, share 90% of their DNA with human beings. Does this, therefore, make them 90% human? The answer, in light of this quote, is absolutely not. Dr. Barney Maddox, a leading genetic genome researcher, also noted concerning man/monkey genetic differences:

"Now the genetic difference between human and his nearest relative, the chimpanzee, is at least 1.6%. That doesn't sound like much, but calculated out, that is a gap of at least 48,000,000 nucleotides, and a change of only 3 nucleotides is fatal to an animal; there is no possibility of change."

Human Genome Project, Quantitative A Disproof of Evolution, CEM facts sheet. Cited in Doubts about Evolution?

Source - http://www.trueauthority.com/cvse/monkeybusiness.htm

:applaudThat little fact alone tears up the evolution fairy tale.
Apes indeed did not evolve into humans. We ARE apes, hominids to be exact -- we broke off into our own branch from our hominid relatives:

Family tree showing the extant hominoids: humans (genus Homo), chimpanzees and bonobos (genus Pan), gorillas (genus Gorilla), orangutans (genus Pongo), and gibbons (four genera of the family Hylobatidae: Hylobates, Hoolock, Nomascus, and Symphalangus). All except gibbons are hominids.

Early primates seemed to have flourished in Eurasia in a lineage leading to the African apes and humans that migrated into Africa. They eventually gave rise to all living species, including the anthropoids: New World monkeys, Old World monkeys, and the great apes, including humans.
 
The quote by Dr. Barney Maddox, a "leading genetic genome researcher" is a lie. And Dr. Maddox is not a "leading genetic genome researcher," he's a urologist from Texas with a BS in Biology.

But we are not being deceived here.
 
Well this egyptian heiroglyph found at Abydos has what appears to be a helicopter in it. Obviously there were no helicopters thousands of years ago snd it is something else in the heiroglyph.

helicoptercartouche.jpg


Point being, when do we base science and fact on drawings and stone carvings? Isnt it more reasonable that someone used their imagination to carve the creature in the cambodian temple. Or possibly they cant carve for ****.
 
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I'm actually open to the extraterrestrial hypothesis for some UFO incidents.

But some of the stuff they have on that Ancient Alien show makes about as much sense as the bull **** excuses people have used to debunk certain UFO incidents.
 
I'm actually open to the extraterrestrial hypothesis for some UFO incidents.

But some of the stuff they have on that Ancient Alien show makes about as much sense as the bull **** excuses people have used to debunk certain UFO incidents.

Given the size of the universe probability id in favor of other intelligent civilizations. And there are some odd things all over the world that do not quite line up with the current mainstream theories about locations and history around the globe. It could be explained away without extra terrestrial inclusion or with extra terrestrial inclusion. Im not gonna say one way or the other. However they reach really far on that show. There is some weird evidence out there but they just pull **** out of their asses.
 
Like I said early, I think the majority of cryptozoology, included Ancient Aliens is total BS, but I'd be lying if I didn't find some weird, obsessive enjoyment out of it all.
 
Space men visitations to the Mayans by travelers in astronaut suits, etc..
 
Like I said early, I think the majority of cryptozoology, included Ancient Aliens is total BS, but I'd be lying if I didn't find some weird, obsessive enjoyment out of it all.

Most of it i would concur and call ********, but their are some oddities in old extinct religions, cults, and tribal religions. And there are some odd cartographic evidence pointing to possible influence from a more intelligent species. But all this looking like evidence could be caused by a lack of context due to lots of historical documents being lost over time.

I heard a good line of reasoning by Neil Tyson one time. Im paraphrasing:

'Maybe the reason we havent met a higher intelligence is because we are not aware of them and they choose not to be aware of us. Like we do not concern ourselves with the ant these higher beings do not concern themselves with us. The ant can not comprehend us and we can not understand these higher beings. They are on an entirely different intillectual level.'

If there are more intellegent beings in existence i really dont think we will ever meet or make contact. There psychology and thought process could be so different that any relations between our species and theirs would be impossible.
 
I don't really mind the idea that aliens visited Earth thousands of years ago. That's possible. And maybe early humans misconstrued them as gods (it's happened in our own history). I see no real evidence for it, but it's not outside the realm of possibility.

But that aliens who mastered interstellar travel would come to a backwater world to the teach the primitive locals how to build a stone wall, a statue, or a glorified sun dial, that I find nonsensical.
 
Most of it i would concur and call ********, but their are some oddities in old extinct religions, cults, and tribal religions. And there are some odd cartographic evidence pointing to possible influence from a more intelligent species. But all this looking like evidence could be caused by a lack of context due to lots of historical documents being lost over time.

I heard a good line of reasoning by Neil Tyson one time. Im paraphrasing:

'Maybe the reason we havent met a higher intelligence is because we are not aware of them and they choose not to be aware of us. Like we do not concern ourselves with the ant these higher beings do not concern themselves with us. The ant can not comprehend us and we can not understand these higher beings. They are on an entirely different intillectual level.'

If there are more intellegent beings in existence i really dont think we will ever meet or make contact. There psychology and thought process could be so different that any relations between our species and theirs would be impossible.
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They'd probably have to be way more advanced than we are, at least technologically, by the simple fact they're even able to visit us from so far away.
 
I don't really mind the idea that aliens visited Earth thousands of years ago. That's possible. And maybe early humans misconstrued them as gods (it's happened in our own history). I see no real evidence for it, but it's not outside the realm of possibility.

But that aliens who mastered interstellar travel would come to a backwater world to the teach the primitive locals how to build a stone wall, a statue, or a glorified sun dial, that I find nonsensical.

Unless the 'zoo hypothesis' were true. Basically it hypothesizes that they seeded the planet amd treat all the planet like a reserve. They step in on occassion behind the scenes and adjusted our progess and helped nudge us and other species along. Because of various reasons their society does not allow for direct and open exposure of themselves to us.

Another similar hypothesis hypothesizes that they can only obswrve us but some rogues may have directly interferred.

Obviously this is all pure speculation without any substantial evidence.

Note im not saying i subscribe to this hypothesis.
 
I have to say I was rather underwhelmed by Tyson's views on UFOs.

But until fairly recently, discussing them seriously was a good way to destroy your career, especially in astronomy.
 
No doubt. It was a taboo subject in science and a reason for that is due to the nutjobs and movies turning the subject into a joke. There is an acedemic and serious way to discuss the subject. Its still taboo but its not just for the crazies anymore.
 
What say you, Vincent Cassone, chairman of the University of Kentucky biology department?
“The theory of evolution is the fundamental backbone of all biological research.”
“There is more evidence for evolution than there is for the theory of gravity, than the idea that things are made up of atoms, or Einstein’s theory of relativity. It is the finest scientific theory ever devised.”
 
No doubt. It was a taboo subject in science and a reason for that is due to the nutjobs and movies turning the subject into a joke. There is an acedemic and serious way to discuss the subject. Its still taboo but its not just for the crazies anymore.

There's a serious, sensible context in which to at least speculate about it without..as alluded...making it out to be the stuff of matinee adventures. Or even worse, 'conspiracy'.
 

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