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BvS Do You Want Arrow, Flash, & Constantine Connected To Superman/Batman?

Do You Want Arrow, Flash, & Constantine Connected To Superman/Batman?

  • Yes

  • No to Constanine, Yes to Flash & Arrow

  • No to Flash & Arrow, Yes to Constantine

  • I'll wait for Flash and Constantine to premiere before giving my final opinion

  • No


Results are only viewable after voting.
Well my reply was in the vein of how easy it would be to fix any minor continuity issues that currently exist, I never said they would actually do it lol.

If they go the route you are suggesting I hope it's not until well down the line when Arrow and The Flash have had their runs on TV, I'd rather not have 2 versions of the same character running around in live action.


Fair point. I forgot this thread is addressing the question of 'should' they merge the continuities, as opposed to the question of if they actually will.

What's wrong with having two versions? This isn't like the Quicksilver situation. Both versions aren't on the big screen at the same time.

Instead, CW Arrow and Flash will appear on TV for their 2.3 Mil niche audience, and the divergent big screen versions will appear on film for the popcorn summer masses.

It won't create much of a problem.


We already have two versions of Bruce and Alfred (thanks to Gotham), and eventually we'll have two versions of Gordon and many of the Batman rogues (when Affleck gets his solo Bat films).
 
I’ve changed my mind on The CW-verse being connected to the films. It should NOT be connected, in my opinion, because The CW-verse is getting to the point where it’s nearly the most perfect live action representation of a superhero universe ever.

Arrow has got nothing on..

The-Avengers-Movie-1-Team-Pose-570x332.jpg


It's not even close. I mean this was the film that inspired Fox, WB, and Sony to build their own cinematic universes to try and cash in on the hype.

The films are really WB's best chance for matching up with what Marvel Studios has accomplished. Hopefully Justice League will deliver.

The CW universe doesn't measure up.
 
granted, no one has seen Constantine yet but judging by the tone & feel of the trailer i can see it blending in with the DC films

Arrow & Flash not so much
 
granted, no one has seen Constantine yet but judging by the tone & feel of the trailer i can see it blending in with the DC films

Arrow & Flash not so much

I don't know anything about the Constantine comics, but would it really be advantageous to merge those two universes? Would Constantine just be better off in its own universe to allow him to deal with more supernatural occult stuff?
 
Sometimes I feel like most people judge Arrow by that small logo on the bottom-right corner of the screen.
 
I don't know anything about the Constantine comics, but would it really be advantageous to merge those two universes? Would Constantine just be better off in its own universe to allow him to deal with more supernatural occult stuff?

Constantine introduces magic and the supernatural. That's a big deal.

Something that the films haven't included yet. It would be really tricky to tie Constantine into the film continuity if the precedence for the supernatural in the DC films hasn't been established yet.
 
No way.

The CW shows should stay on the CW.

The films should have a life of their own.
 
It's not even close. I mean this was the film that inspired Fox, WB, and Sony to build their own cinematic universes to try and cash in on the hype.

The films are really WB's best chance for matching up with what Marvel Studios has accomplished. Hopefully Justice League will deliver.

The CW universe doesn't measure up.

WB has been trying to create a DCCU for a while. There was even talk of putting Routh on screen with Bale. Keep in mind that SR received better critical reception than MoS. Nolan wanted his universe to stand alone though, there may have been more than just that but ultimately Nolan would have had nothing to do with a DC cinematic universe. In my opinion it turned out for the better this way though.
 
Yeah, I know WB considered it but they never felt confident enough to follow through with a plan for a shared universe till after the success of Avengers. Though apparently they wanted Green Lantern to be their Iron Man at one point. Marvel did it, and succeeded.

Based on how the studio-driven Green Lantern turned out, JL:M would have likely been a massive failure.
 
I don't even know how they managed to GL the mess it was...nevermind, when I think about it I can think lot of reasons. I just wanted to point out that WB was trying before there was even a Marvel Studios. They just kept tying the oddest people to their movies. They probably didn't understand the full potential until their own Nolan trilogy and the Marvel movies successes at the box office.
 
Arrow isn't better than the Burton Batman.

I still have yet to watch Arrow. 2 or 3 episodes deep in the first season. It feels just ok.

It gets hugely better the second season.
 
I don't even know how they managed to GL the mess it was...nevermind, when I think about it I can think lot of reasons. I just wanted to point out that WB was trying before there was even a Marvel Studios. They just kept tying the oddest people to their movies. They probably didn't understand the full potential until their own Nolan trilogy and the Marvel movies successes at the box office.

If anybody knows of a good autopsy of the Green Lantern movie please send me the link. I'm curious to know how something so awful could be made.
 
Yeah, I know WB considered it but they never felt confident enough to follow through with a plan for a shared universe till after the success of Avengers. Though apparently they wanted Green Lantern to be their Iron Man at one point. Marvel did it, and succeeded.

Based on how the studio-driven Green Lantern turned out, JL:M would have likely been a massive failure.

I think GL was more a case of it being ill-conceived rather than studio driven. I think WB just totally underestimated how hard it was going to be to bring GL to the screen.
 
WB has been trying to create a DCCU for a while. There was even talk of putting Routh on screen with Bale. Keep in mind that SR received better critical reception than MoS. Nolan wanted his universe to stand alone though, there may have been more than just that but ultimately Nolan would have had nothing to do with a DC cinematic universe. In my opinion it turned out for the better this way though.


Yet made about $350m less.
 
I think GL was more a case of it being ill-conceived rather than studio driven. I think WB just totally underestimated how hard it was going to be to bring GL to the screen.

They underestimated JLM too, which would have been a much bigger undertaking. 7 heroes with unique actions sequences, Omacs, etc.
 
I’ve changed my mind on The CW-verse being connected to the films. It should NOT be connected, in my opinion, because The CW-verse is getting to the point where it’s nearly the most perfect live action representation of a superhero universe ever. It all boils down to how The Flash will do, but it’s looking so promising that I’m seriously considering it as better than anything the film medium can do in general (Warner Brothers or Marvel Studios – no company bias here, both studios equally). I’m starting to wonder if television is the way to go for this genre.

If you were to take every superhero film ever made (less than 100 films?), write each movie individually on a piece of paper, put them all in a hat and draw a film at random, you could make a legitimately sound argument as to why Arrow is better than that film. That’s because most of the films in the genre aren’t good.

If you look at the two seasons of Arrow, which are a total of 46 episodes for the series so far, that’s 46 episodes times approximately 42 minutes per episode; we’ve gotten over 32 hours of Green Arrow in live action. That’s more hours than Spider-Man or Iron Man, and arguably Superman and Batman if you only look at the films. For those who complained about The Flash not being adapted to live action, by the time the first season is over, we will have gotten 16 hours of The Flash… roughly the equivalent of 8 films.

Yet for Batman vs. Superman, we will have waited over two years to sit in a theater and see a movie that will be approximately two hours. Two YEARS for two HOURS. And half of you people will HATE that film. Arrow’s got 32 hours within two years. The Flash will be connected to that universe with an additional 16, and we’re not yet counting the potential second season of The Flash, nor the guaranteed third season of Arrow. It’s more than the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

My point is, I feel like the films are losing their way, both DC and Marvel. We’re looking at 100 million, 150 million, 200 MILLION dollar budgets, for films that aren’t THAT much better than what we’re getting on television. Do the over-extended CGI sequences matter THAT much to you? If not, television can be the answer. Is the quality of acting THAT much better? If not, television can be the answer. Are the talents of Andrew Garfield, Gal Gadot, Chris Hemsworth THAT much higher in quality than Grant Gustin or Stephen Amell? If not, television can be the answer. 200 million dollars is more than the two seasons of Arrow COMBINED, and that’s the budget of one film.

I’m not citing the hours of these shows as automatically being of a “higher quality” than films… but the whole purpose of these characters was to have continuing stories that lasted a long time. There can be extended arcs on television, even more than a trilogy. You can know and explore characters for longer periods of time than films ever can. What you can’t get in CGI spectacle is made up for with compelling stories. Stories are why these characters have survived so long in the first place.

Let’s face it: comic books are soap operas for dudes. And that’s EXACTLY why The CW is hitting it out of the park. They’re taking the very foundation of comic books and making it exactly that. They are serials. They are soaps. They are continuing, seemingly never-ending stories… as they SHOULD be. They are comic books in live action. Each episode of Arrow is like a single issue of a comic book, whereas we just finished “Issue” #46 (episode 46). Movies can’t do that.

Movies have an impossible task of taking 70+ years of comic book history and making ONE, two-hour film that is the all-encompassing interpretation of all those decades. The Dark Knight Rises tried to incorporate the Knightfall saga, which is roughly 73+ issues, into a two-hour movie that also represented Frank Miller’s The Dark Knight Returns as well as No Man’s Land. Chances are, you’re either going to use 5% of that material, or you’re going to cram so much stuff that it just irritates anyone with knowledge of the material. I’m not criticizing Nolan’s work (I love the trilogy dearly), but the very act of “adapting” any of this stuff to film is going to automatically start with the process of cutting and chopping. People will be unhappy.

Television has that challenge too… but not as much. Arrow has incorporated an INSANE amount of comic material, while even making room for inventing new characters out of thin air. It’s extraordinary. I realize the Batman archives have more material to choose from, but still.

My other point is, is this genre so prestigious and so “high-art” that it NEEDS to have these bloated, ridiculous budgets? Maybe I’m crazy, but the comic book was envisioned as a rag, a funny book, a throw-away magazine, like a TV Guide, or a People Magazine, or a National Enquirer, that you could fold up, roll up into your back pocket, spill chocolate milk on it… and when you were done reading it, you THREW IT AWAY BECAUSE IT WAS TRASH. It was trash art. Now it’s turned into this endeavor where a movie “fails” because it didn’t follow the interpretation of Issue #689 of Blah-Blah-Blah. It’s nuts. If anything, a medium like television is the most appropriate way to represent the genre. It’s cheap, it’s simple, it’s indefinite as opposed to a single film, and you keep coming back week to week for the next installment just like a comic book. And then you throw it away and move on to the next story, just like a soap opera.

Anyway, my overall thesis here is that I wouldn’t connect the shows to the films, because the shows have the potential to be better in the long run. And the total hours of content in live action shouldn’t turn into a Quantity vs. Quality debate, because the shows are clearly showing a higher quality than a LOT of films in the genre (in my opinion).

You know, I want to bring this up because today Rocksteady dropped a new trailer to Arkham Knight. I love Nolan's and Burton's Batman films but Rocksteady's Batman games are way better. I mean they just feel better. They and BTAS are probably the best 2 forms of Batman in media.

When you look at Spectacular Spider-Man, it's the best take on Spidey in media. Better than Raimi and Webb's films. Now I love Raimi's films (Spidey 3 gets an ok) and I'm mixed about Webb but Spectacular is a better interpretation of Spidey.

It's not just in live action TV shows so to speak.
 
The only way it would work if there was a multiverse/crisis-esque crossover.

We're getting a new Barry Allen in the films, and Variety claimed Barry would cameo in BvS .
 
Smallville got away with it when Superman Returns came out..keep them separate..
 
Smallville got away with it when Superman Returns came out..keep them separate..

Yes please, I wouldn't actually mind having two Supermans existing at the same time either (CK in Arrow or Flash :awesome:).
 
Arrow has got nothing on..

The-Avengers-Movie-1-Team-Pose-570x332.jpg


It's not even close. I mean this was the film that inspired Fox, WB, and Sony to build their own cinematic universes to try and cash in on the hype.

The films are really WB's best chance for matching up with what Marvel Studios has accomplished. Hopefully Justice League will deliver.

The CW universe doesn't measure up.

MARVEL. :up:

Really hope GOTG is good. I wonder how it will do at the BO. I hope it inspired WB, but also inspires them to be original. There's a lack of that over there creatively these days. :(
 
If anybody knows of a good autopsy of the Green Lantern movie please send me the link. I'm curious to know how something so awful could be made.

You don't need a critical analysis from people well versed in filmmaking. Just count how many writers are credited and you can see why it failed. Plus Martin Campbell (dir.) was just a hired gun to direct. I wouldn't b surprised if he had no reverence for the material like a Joss Whedon!:csad:

As for keeping the universes, TV and Cinema, just keep them separate. It's hard to have one medium beholden to another. It will just cramp their respective storytelling. I mean did the guys from AOS know that SHIELD was going to be dismantled in TWS when the TV show was being conceived? They probably had to throw in that secret secret Nick Fury base in the finale just so the team could continue. THAT JUST DOESN'T MAKE A LOT OF SENSE! If SHIELD is gone, who is funding that secret base and the team? So unless you've got just one team writing for all these shows and movies, it is just not a good idea. Heck they can't even do that seamlessly in comics!

There are some pros to having a unified TV and Cinematic Universe, but its not enough to overcome the cons. One pro for the DC Cinematic Universe would be rapid expansion and mythology building.

As for pros and cons of TV vs. Movies, movies have immense budgets. They can just present special effects better than on a TV budget. That Quicksilver sequence in DOFP, you know the one, would probably be the entire budget for one season of television! And you can't present the spectacle of superheroes on a TV budget, and not suffer inferior CG, you just can't. Arrow got away with a lot because he doesn't have superpowers. The Flash will work because he has one superpower. But I'm sure they couldn't show it like they did on DOFP!

So no, let the TV and movie guys do their own thing. It's for the better.
 
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