Arrow Can someone explain the Batman/Superman embargo

[ZIPBAGS]

For years going back to "Smallville" their has been an embargo of the use of Batman and Superman on these shows. Can someone explain why? You are already going to have two versions of the Flash and Suicide Squad.
If you don't want to use them in Arrow or Flash that's fine. But, how about a mention of them even in passing.

I could deal with a tv-verse and a movie-verse when it comes to DC characters. But, with Titans and Supergirl coming we soon will have 4 different DC tv-verses...Flash/Arrow, Supergirl, Gotham, Titans. And I am not even included the Lucifer and Constantine verses.

 

[Matt]

I think if Supergirl starts rough (or even starts strong and then starts to decline in ratings), we are going to see how dedicated Warners is to the embargo. Superman appearing during sweeps would probably be sufficient to give a decent ratings boost. So if the show starts rough or drops...will Warners bring out the big guns to save it? Or will they let it die before they break the embargo?

 

[DarKush]

^
Personally I think they would let it die. They might be afraid of "tarnishing" the Superman brand by having him appear on a struggling show. At least we know Superman exists in the Supergirl universe so there is that, and I give them credit for that. And Wayne's company exists in Flash's future. Still it would be great to get more references and direct references to Superman and Batman, or their cities on Flash and Arrow.

 

[Thundercrack85]

For years going back to "Smallville" their has been an embargo of the use of Batman and Superman on these shows. Can someone explain why? You are already going to have two versions of the Flash and Suicide Squad.
If you don't want to use them in Arrow or Flash that's fine. But, how about a mention of them even in passing.

I could deal with a tv-verse and a movie-verse when it comes to DC characters. But, with Titans and Supergirl coming we soon will have 4 different DC tv-verses...Flash/Arrow, Supergirl, Gotham, Titans. And I am not even included the Lucifer and Constantine verses.

I think there are two main reasons. The first is that they don't want to confuse people. When I watched Avengers, a lot of people were confused by Quicksilver.

The other major factor is likely not wanting the market to be saturated with Batman and Superman. You don't want to use them too lightly or often.

TV has always been seen as an inferior medium. Even when budget is not an issue (and that's rare) a lot of film actors will not do television.

 

[storyteller]

Well that's changing a great deal now. A lot of film actors can't do a show over SAG or some nonsense.

 

[DrCosmic]

For years going back to "Smallville" their has been an embargo of the use of Batman and Superman on these shows. Can someone explain why? You are already going to have two versions of the Flash and Suicide Squad.
If you don't want to use them in Arrow or Flash that's fine. But, how about a mention of them even in passing.

I could deal with a tv-verse and a movie-verse when it comes to DC characters. But, with Titans and Supergirl coming we soon will have 4 different DC tv-verses...Flash/Arrow, Supergirl, Gotham, Titans. And I am not even included the Lucifer and Constantine verses.

Thundercrack is right, confusion, saturation and lack of actor crossover are huge issues.

I think it actually can be a bit simpler than that: lack of coordination. If someone at DC says it's all one universe, then whoever is doing Suicide Squad has to have a Manu Bennet play an Oliver Queen-obsessed version of Slade Wilson. Or vice versa, the TV shows have to ask for explicit permission for every thing they do with a character that's going to be used in the film, an approval process that can make the show un-doable. What really makes it not work is there is no "Someone at DC" to make these decisions. There's no Kevin Feige. There's no Joss Whedon. It's a committee, of businessmen generally, making all of these calls. So there's no one guy saying 'this is where the DC Universe is going. So that means it can't all go the same direction.

Now you bring up a good point, there are some exceptions, Smallville and Superman Returns. Flash on CW and the Flash movie. So it's not a hard and fast rule, especially when it's different versions of the characters or the characters aren't very popular, or very important to either Universe. Flash is a trip.

Also, Constantine was in the Arrow/Flash verse, and Supergirl may be as well.

Now... can someone explain the need for easter eggs like these mentions? I appreciate them usually when they're they're there, but I don't miss them when they're not. What is the big deal?

 

[Micromind]

Can someone explain the Batman/Superman embargo

There's also a Wonder Woman embargo and Blue Beetle embargo.

And now, a Deadshot embargo.

 

[DarKush]

Thundercrack is right, confusion, saturation and lack of actor crossover are huge issues.

I think it actually can be a bit simpler than that: lack of coordination. If someone at DC says it's all one universe, then whoever is doing Suicide Squad has to have a Manu Bennet play an Oliver Queen-obsessed version of Slade Wilson. Or vice versa, the TV shows have to ask for explicit permission for every thing they do with a character that's going to be used in the film, an approval process that can make the show un-doable. What really makes it not work is there is no "Someone at DC" to make these decisions. There's no Kevin Feige. There's no Joss Whedon. It's a committee, of businessmen generally, making all of these calls. So there's no one guy saying 'this is where the DC Universe is going. So that means it can't all go the same direction.

Now you bring up a good point, there are some exceptions, Smallville and Superman Returns. Flash on CW and the Flash movie. So it's not a hard and fast rule, especially when it's different versions of the characters or the characters aren't very popular, or very important to either Universe. Flash is a trip.

Also, Constantine was in the Arrow/Flash verse, and Supergirl may be as well.

Now... can someone explain the need for easter eggs like these mentions? I appreciate them usually when they're they're there, but I don't miss them when they're not. What is the big deal?

Isn't Geoff Johns part of the group that is supposed to be steering the DC entertainment projects? Seems like he could become their Feige to me.

Is that official that Constantine is part of the Arrow/Flash universe? I think it would be cool if that were the case, but I haven't seen anything making that official.

For me the big deal is just pure geek satisfaction or fulfillment. To see some big crossover, all these heroes working together, it's a total geek out moment for me like when the Justice League formed on Smallville and then when Oliver and Firestorm recently helped out the Flash.

I like the idea of a shared TV universe at least and the idea that Batman and Superman are out there, even if we don't see them. I mean Arrow has used quite a few Batman villains and Flash has even mentioned Wayne Enterprises. It would be great to see more stuff in that vein. Perhaps mentions of the Daily Planet and guest spots for Vicki Vale or Ronald Troupe. I'm guessing there might be Superman villains that they aren't going to use in the movies that they could use on Flash or Arrow (though with Supergirl coming out now all bets are off on what Superman villains they could use), and also Arrow might be constrained even further into dipping into Batman's well once Titans joins Gotham. I mean, Arrow already beat Titans to the punch in taking their main adversary in Deathstroke.

Also there are members of the Batfamily like Batwoman and Black Bat (especially) or Batwing (David more than Luke) that could work on Arrow. Intergang could work on either Flash or Arrow.

 

[yonny616]

Honestly, this is why I wish they would have gone more earth-2 for the TV side of things. While I love Barry as The Flash they should have made him Jay Garrick. I mean, they could have used Batman, but have it be Thomas Wayne instead of Bruce.

 

[metaphysician]

The problem with saying Superman is in the same setting as Arrow/Flash, is that there is no evidence that Superman exists. If Superman just went public tomorrow, and joined the setting that already has Arrow and Flash and whatnot, sure. The idea that he's *already* been active for some time? Not believable in the slightest. Nobody has acted in even the slightest way that would hint at a godlike alien publicly saving the day.

Batman, you could do. It would just be more than a little redundant with Ollie stealing so much of his schtick. Either Batman is the johnny come lately, or else Batman renders Ollie 100% irrelevant. Neither is exactly likely.