Superman Returns Does any one know what 6'3" and 225 pounds lean actually looks like?

People point to the ripping of the suit as proof of how massive Routh is. The truth is that any one of any build will rip clothing that is too small for them. So Routh ripping the suit proves only that the suit was too small for him. It proves nothing about his bulk, or lack thereof.
it proves that, despite what you think, he was commited to bulking up as much as he could and that he was getting 'too' big.
 
DorkyFresh said:
if you're gonna use the word "dork" to address me, please add the "y" at the end of it so i know wether or not you're saying it to diss me...

I'll add the "y" when you stop wasting bandwidth by bringing up the "real" question when you obviously knew what I meant. :)

you mean....YOUR Superman is the Superman you've read in comics. there's no such thing as THE Superman.....he's a fictional character that doesn't exist in reality, therefor he's different depending on who you ask.

Yeah, that's the same argument used about the "real" Batman put articulated recently by Jett from BOF (though he's not the first to think of it). The thing is that there is a "real" idea of Superman that is consistent from comic to comic and so on. Sure things change, but not as drastically as people on this board want to believe. Take a look at the cover of Superman #14 and then look at Superman in today's comics. There's not as much difference between those two images as between them and what we see in the Singer/Routh version.
 
dark_b said:
do you?
supe010b.gif

Yeah I do. Thanks for posting the pic that proves the point. Even back "in the day" Superman was built bigger than Routh and had a much different looking costume than the Singer/Routh version. Sure the S sheild has changed into what we see now in the comics from the pic you posted, but pretty much everything else is the same. Too bad we can't say that for the Routh/Singer version. And that's the problem.
 
DorkyFresh said:
it proves that, despite what you think, he was commited to bulking up as much as he could and that he was getting 'too' big.

It does not! How does it prove he got too big? It proves he was getting too big for the size of the suit that was made or that they made the suit too small in the first place!

Routh bulked up as much as Singer wanted him to bulk up, which is not enough to play the part of Superman. It's not Routh's fault, it's Singers' either for having the vision of a skinny Superman or picking an actor who couldn't physically play the part.
 
JBElliott said:
Yeah I do. Thanks for posting the pic that proves the point. Even back "in the day" Superman was built bigger than Routh and had a much different looking costume than the Singer/Routh version. Sure the S sheild has changed into what we see now in the comics from the pic you posted, but pretty much everything else is the same. Too bad we can't say that for the Routh/Singer version. And that's the problem.
:eek: OMG
 
That same logic, and I already coverd it in my first post because it is the most common argument there is for superman to be skinny.

I don't think he should be skinny. I think a naturally big, well fed country boy shape is the look.

Saying he cnt build muscle, blah blah blah...

Well...blah blah blah....

I take it you don't read comics then.

Yeah....I do.

But, there's different versions. Different artists. Different interpretations, and believe it or not.....not ALL of them look like a giant ball of muscle.

Plus.....comics can't be taken too literal. That's why there will never be a big screen Batman is gray tights onscreen. Because it looks ridiculous onscreen when compared to drawn on paper.

Yeah, that was hilarious. I loved it. The thing is that the skit saterizes all versions of Superman just the same. Glasses aren't going to work for Reeve, Routh, Caine, Welling or the Swan version, the Byrne version, the Ross version and so on. We accept that the disguise works because we willingly suspend our disbelief.

Agreed.

But if the guy is so gigantic, then the whole cover just looks ******ed.

He's too skinny to play the part of Superman.

Again....I don't think so.

Well I suppose that's not quite right. He's too skinny to play the part of the Superman we see in comics. However, in Elseworlds comics like Red Son there can be a lot of variation in Superman. Thus, Superman Returns is an Elseworlds version of Superman where Superman looks like he's 15 years old and built like a decent high school swim team member. I suppose that's okay, but I'd rather see the "real" Superman on screen


Lmfao....

Superman doesn't have to work out, the yellow sun radiation pumps him up. He's "naturally" built like that.

Yeah.....he is.

But, would the yellow sun make him look like....Oh, I dunno....O'Hearn?

By that logic, then Superman would be a super skinny guy with totally atrophied muscle, muscle skinnier than even Routh.

No.

By that logic, he would look like a big guy. Not cut, not defined, and not overly muscular. Just, a big guy. Obviously, I think he'd have a musclar build.....but not some freak of nature look.

Again, that's my take on Superman. There's different interpretations..and being a Bat-fan...you learn about how people accept those different takes.

Who knows? Maybe someday....there will be a big screen Superman that can bench press my ****ing house.....and then I'll be the one *****ing....
 
A believable Superman? Then I guess you don't want him to fly, be super strong, invulnerable and so on, since all of those charateristics are completely unbelievable.
you're obviously not paying attention to what you're reading. i said i want a believable SUPERman......not a believable man. do try to actually think of the meaning of the words you're reading instead of thinking of what you WANT to me to mean.

The animated series is just one interpretation, but it's an extremely good and well recieved one
i agree...but it's not the ONLY one.

I'm not sure how writing: "They're out there. It's the responsibility of the people making the movie to find those actors and the responsibility of the actor to look the part. A good director can get a good performance out of a so-so actor" gives me any different mouth than anyone else around here (for example I've been called a dumb ass in this thread).
i may be able to say a lot more on these boards than i would if i were talking to a person face to face, but that doesn't mean i think any differently. if i know that i wouldn't be able to find a musclebound person that's a good enough actor to play Superman, then i'm not going to say that i can and i wouldn't expect anyone else to be able to either. i know you want a huge dude to play Supes, but if you don't know anything about casting....don't spout statements like 'it's their responsibility to blah blah blah' since you don't know the circumstances they deal with.
 
Well, to some people Superman should be a really huge dude.....like gigantic. To some people, that IS Superman.

I mean, to some people....Batman is like 6'6 and weighs 300 lbs.......while, in fact....the official stats on Batman is 6'2 210lbs (like Bale)......but, that doesn't matter in the mind's eye...
 
It does not! How does it prove he got too big? It proves he was getting too big for the size of the suit that was made or that they made the suit too small in the first place!
it proves that, in my opinion, he was getting too big. just like it proves that, in your opinion, the suit was too small. so....i say....Routh was building too much muscle...

Routh bulked up as much as Singer wanted him to bulk up, which is not enough to play the part of Superman. It's not Routh's fault, it's Singers' either for having the vision of a skinny Superman or picking an actor who couldn't physically play the part.
besides the size of Routh's neck, i think he's in perfect shape to pay Supes. i could see him getting a tad bigger but i think a live action Supes would look comedic if he were as big as he's drawn in the comics and the cartoon.
 
C'mon Biggles.....this is constructive debate at it's best....lol
 
JBElliott said:
Thanks Mike! Nice to have another friendly voice in here. Glad you made it back safe and sound from Iran.

On the topic of a constricting costume. I'm not sure I understand that. A human body is made up of about 60% of water (in adult men, about 60% of their bodies are water. However, fat tissue does not have as much water as lean tissue). Water, as is the case with most fluids, is incompressible. So how could Routh's suit compress his muscles? If it really did, then his body would have to bulge out somewhere that the suit was not constricting him. Maybe his hands or head is swollen. I almost said his neck too, but we can see that that's not the case.

Well, shucks, but I think has more to do with the prayers of those back home.

That is a good point, I never thought about that compression aspect.

It may just be an excuse.

Any how, I seriously hope people do not think a build like Clint Walker is too big for superman.

Tall, powefully built, but in a way that can be done without steroids, or about as good as a guy of his hieght would get without it.

I would asume Superman is not a steroid user, so I do not think a Schwarzenegger type build, or an Ohearn build is right.

But I do not see routh as that either.

Honestly the Walker type build is right on the money, even his face looks a LOT like Alex Ross's Superman.

They should have looked for an acter who looked like him. Well at least that is what I would have done, and story wise I would have wanted the movie to showcase the modern comic book superman, rather than being a direct sequel to the first 2 superman films.

BUT the movie will still probably be a good entertaining movie. Think of it as an Elseworlds.
 
Even if Singer had casted a huge muscular guy, he wouldn't look like Superman from the comics because there really isn't any material that can show that kind of muscle definition. I kind of think it would actually make someone kind of fat looking if it were a bodybuilder type in the role.
 
Straight from Routh......6'3 215-220 of muscle for the role.

He's at 211 at the moment, I don't think 230 should be such a stretch for Superman 2.
 
newmexneon said:
Even if Singer had casted a huge muscular guy, he wouldn't look like Superman from the comics because there really isn't any material that can show that kind of muscle definition. I kind of think it would actually make someone kind of fat looking if it were a bodybuilder type in the role.

I NEVER said I wanted a "huge muscular guy", or bodybuilder type in the role.

In fact a stated I did NOT want a bodybuilder for the role.

Why is it that when I say they could have got a guy who looks more masculine than Routh, find an unknown who looks like a Clint Walker, or that type of build etc...

I then get more response saying things like; they can’t put a bodybuilder type in that role.?

The kind of build for superman is NOT a bodybuilder type, just more masculine than Routh is.

Not just his build but his face looks young, he has a skinny neck, and an hourglass structure. Pretty effeminate for the man of steel.

Why do I even bother?

When next I come on there will be more posts, by people who did not read my other posts I guess, since they feel I had wanted a bodybuilder in the role, even though I specifically stated I did not.

Let more of the "SuperMike335! you are an idyot cuz U think superman shude be a bodybuilder" begin.
 
JBElliott said:
I don't there's anything to it either. It was an excuse. Why did they even bother trying to say that? Did they feel they were wrong in leaving it off and needed the excuse?

Migenbach never said anything about the CGI in her interview - she said it wouldn't have sat right on the folds of the cape. It's only stupid speculation by fanboys who bring up the GCI thing - they try to equate the (valid) reason that STAS used for having no S (hard to animate on a fluttering cape) and apply it to CGI - but it doesn't apply at all.

However, they way the hung the cape IS a valid excuse - it *wouldn't* have looked good on it it *would* have been all folded and wouldn't have read well - IF they had to use that style of cape-hanging - but then they should have hung the cape a different way anyway.
 
Look: Routh has a reasonable amount of muscle on a narrow frame.

O'Hearn has a STUPID amount of muscle on whatever frame he's got.

Reeve clearly had a broader frame, but not always as well-developed as he should have been.

What supes needs, ideally is a reasonable amount of muscle on a *broader* frame. It's the frame that counts. Routh is a big guy but he's not a big guy. His frame will never be any broader.

Someone like Clint Walker's frame and build are right in their proportions, but a tiny bit big in overall scale. I don't think Superman should be 6'6".

Really, I think you need Routh's development (and quality of costume and padding) on something like Reeve's frame.

Also, I don't think it's wrong to have Clark Kent be conspicuously big at all. He can NOT be conspicuously super-pumped, because that'll show. But he should be like, as people say the naturally big farm-boy. You shouldn't be able to tell with his Business suit on whether he's well-muscled, or well-feed. Honestly I imagine that Lois would imagine that underneath his clothes, Clark is a slightly pudgy guy. That's trhe thing - with a big FRAME, it's impossible to tell whether a guy is well-developed muscularly, or just sorta in shape but a bit chunky/pudgey/flabby. My brother, for instance, is 5'11" and about 210 pounds - in a suit he looks like a big, bulky guy, but it's impossibe to know whether he's really ripped or just chunky (it's the latter).

Size - breadth - of frame is eveything, and Routh falls a little short of ideal in that department, though not enough to discount him purely for that reason. But no mistake, it's his frame that gives us this very lanky Superman. And Supes has never been lanky in the comics.
 
Chris Reeve looked big in his Kent clothes because of his broad shoulders. Even George Reeves who had narrow shoulders supplemented with padding looked big as Kent. I don't see what;'s wrong with that. Chris was able to play with this a little by changing his body posture and slouching-- remember the scene where after he did the interview with Lois he turns up as Clark and is about to reveal he's Supes? That was superb. I could handle the padding if it was done better. To my eye (and I'm an artist, for what that's worth), Routh's physique in that outfit looks almost deformed, certainly not like any real or possible human proportions I'm aware of. That's a shame, really, as this cannot help but to hinder his effectiveness in the role. I'm not looking to cause trouble, it's just that the way he fills the suit out is a distraction because I'm constantly aware of it.
 
Yeah is is kind of distracting but part of the problem is the "low cut" undwear on his costume.

It make his waist look like even more of an hourglass.

That is my biggest problem with the suit, the belt line and underwear are low like a womans underwear.

I dont want it to be up to his arm puts, but the cut should be normal, not low.

I think that little change would help him a lot.
 
SuperMike335!! said:


I NEVER said I wanted a "huge muscular guy", or bodybuilder type in the role.

In fact a stated I did NOT want a bodybuilder for the role.

Why is it that when I say they could have got a guy who looks more masculine than Routh, find an unknown who looks like a Clint Walker, or that type of build etc...

I then get more response saying things like; they can’t put a bodybuilder type in that role.?

The kind of build for superman is NOT a bodybuilder type, just more masculine than Routh is.

Not just his build but his face looks young, he has a skinny neck, and an hourglass structure. Pretty effeminate for the man of steel.

Why do I even bother?

When next I come on there will be more posts, by people who did not read my other posts I guess, since they feel I had wanted a bodybuilder in the role, even though I specifically stated I did not.

Let more of the "SuperMike335! you are an idyot cuz U think superman shude be a bodybuilder" begin.

The answer is obvious: Comprehension is NOT a strong point for a lot of people here. They see what they WANT, not what is said.

As soon as it is obvious that someone has reservations, their eyes glaze-over and right away they go into attack mode. Most of the time it is unwarranted, but that doesn't stop them.
 
ChrisBaleBatman said:
I don't think he should be skinny. I think a naturally big, well fed country boy shape is the look.



Well...blah blah blah....



Yeah....I do.

But, there's different versions. Different artists. Different interpretations, and believe it or not.....not ALL of them look like a giant ball of muscle.

Plus.....comics can't be taken too literal. That's why there will never be a big screen Batman is gray tights onscreen. Because it looks ridiculous onscreen when compared to drawn on paper.



Agreed.

But if the guy is so gigantic, then the whole cover just looks ******ed.



Again....I don't think so.




Lmfao....



Yeah.....he is.

But, would the yellow sun make him look like....Oh, I dunno....O'Hearn?



No.

By that logic, he would look like a big guy. Not cut, not defined, and not overly muscular. Just, a big guy. Obviously, I think he'd have a musclar build.....but not some freak of nature look.

Again, that's my take on Superman. There's different interpretations..and being a Bat-fan...you learn about how people accept those different takes.

Who knows? Maybe someday....there will be a big screen Superman that can bench press my ****ing house.....and then I'll be the one *****ing....

I won't bother taking the time to reply to all you've written since it's so utterly wrong. Thanks for playing though. :)
 
guys, theres no point debating JBElliot. He seems to be negative about EVERY Dc comic movie that comes down the pike. When flash and wonder woman are in development, chances are he'll be whining about that too.
 
SuperMike335!! said:
Hi all,

Not new to the boards, but have been lurking for a very long time. I read posts a lot, and I am of the group that does NOT like the way Routh looks as superman, or the costume changes.

At age 25, I am a life long superman fan, and comic collector as well, and this is far and away my favorite comic book character, so admittedly I am hard to please.

I am also an Iraq war vet with about 5 years in the army, and I have been an avid natural bodybuilder for a long time too, and have a good grasp on what bodyweights at certain bodyfat% look like, for given heights.

There seems to be a lot of argument on what build a superman actor should have. Some people here consider any muscular body a “muscle bound” freak, and think that 225 at 6’3” is skinny (not true at all). Others seem to favor a more Arnold Schwarzenegger type build for superman.

So what is “muscle bound?” The definition of muscle bound, is when a skeletal structure has so much muscle that is has lost a degree of movement to the point where it can no longer be athletic.

Let my say first off that only the most massive of bodybuilders are truly muscle bound. Guys like Ronnie Coleman 5’11” 300 pounds current Mr.Olympia, Jay Cutler 5’9” 300 pounds, Gunter Schlierkamp 6’2” 320+ pounds, Markus Ruhl 5’10” 300+pounds, are big time muscle-bound.

Lou Ferrigno, when he was on TV as the Hulk, although muscular, was only mildly muscle bound, and had the ability to still be athletic, so was Arnold S. Back in this time bodybuilders where not nearly as massive as they are to day.

For the most part, only bodybuilders, and some powerlifters, tend to be muscle-bound.

So by now you may be thinking that I would prefer a bodybuilder, like Mike O’hearn, to play superman? Absolutely NOT.

Remember Boagrius from the movie Troy (the giant guy Pitt kills in the beginning scene)? That was 6’11.5” 360+ pound bodybuilder, and WSM competitor Nathan Jones. That kind of build is WAY too massive for a role like superman, but would not be bad for a Juggernaut doomsday type character.

I think that bodybuilders tend to look way too muscular and especially the steroid using ones would just look cartoonish as Superman, on top of that they tend to be under 6 foot (not always the case, but many of them are), and even the taller ones these days still tend to be too built for the role of superman.

One thing we do agree on is that superman is ripped. He may not be a bodybuilder, but he can be very lean. No one wants a fat superman.

Then there is the “logical” argument that superman should be skinny because he could not lift weights to increase his muscular size. Nothing in the known galaxy would give him that type of resistance training. Not unless he was working out with planets, right?

WRONG, that is applying human physiology to him too much. If that were the case by the same logic superman would look sickly atrophied as everyday life would not give him the resistance his muscles need to maintain themselves!

Clark is an ALIEN, he can simply have whatever build that a Kryptonian has when under a yellow sun. No need to put logic to it, a strong lean muscular build (but NOT super-heavyweight bodybuilder), at a height of 6’3”. He can look like a guy who lifts weights even though he does not actually have to in order to maintain his body.

Then there is the Clark Kent argument, seriously, you think if a guy looked well built in a suit, that people would just assume he is a superhero? Absurd, it is well known that millions of men in the US. Lift weight to stay in shape, be muscular and healthy, and any one who knows him would just think “well he was a big farm kid, and he must work out”.

Also the real reason no one find his secret identity is that no one is looking for it! He does not wear a mask, so most people in the DC universe might just assume he does not have an identity he is trying to protect.

Now, officially, according to DC comics superman is 6’3” and 225 pounds. Sometimes it is printed as 235, like in the DC encyclopedia, but I will go with the 225 just to be conservative.

I happen to know what a lean 225 at 6’3” should look like. I know that some magazines have printed that Routh is 220 (even one typo that he was 250) yeah right!

Bull*****, Routh is not even 210, unless his bodyfat is >15%, and that IMHO is not lean enough to be superman if that is the case.

Some people may be thinking; “I have a friend who is 220 at 6’2”, and he does not look very muscular at all, to be muscular you got to be like 250”, well if that is the case your friend has a lot of bodyfat making up his weight%, or he is padding his weight to sound bigger.

I know several guys in my company who do work out, lift weights and who are lean by army standards, and weigh between 220-230, and are 6’2”-6’4”, and they all look way bigger than Routh does.

There are several guys who are the same weight as the guys who work out a lot, but who do not work out as much, and the difference is huge. The guys who work out minimally still are in half ways decent shape, and although they are not as lean as the better shape guys, even though they weigh similar, the visual difference in muscular size is huge. It all has to do with the bodyfat %. 6% fat vs. 18% at the same weight the 6% will look far more muscled.

6’3” at around 225 pounds, ripped, is actually more like an in-between Vin Diesel, and the Rock build. Vin only weighs about 210, and the Rock in the Run Down, and Walking tall weighed about 245 pounds at 6’5”.

So what Singer should have done was found a guy of that build with a face that resembled the current comic superman, and who can act, and I am sure that lots of guys can fit that bill.

That is just the way it is. Physically, IMHO Routh does just not look like a "superman", at all.

Reeve I think could have been about 15-20 pounds more muscular for his superman portrayal; and that still would not have been bodybuilder or muscle-bound proportions, or even closely resemble a Schwarzenegger look at all.

His face also does not look right, he looks too young. His face lacks the masculine qualities that Christopher Reeves had. Sure he may resemble Reeves, when Chris was 16 years old, but Routh does not look like superman to me. Not at all.

I think that the costume has also been changed too much. All the small changes add up to being a big change, and the hair cut on him is too long. Superman does not have a buzz cut, and sure his hair should be long enough to be wavy as Superman, but still look like a conservative business haircut on Clark.

Also the portrayal of Clark in modern day comics is much more head strong and less nerdy than it was during the Reeve era. More like the Bruce Tim animated Superman cartoon than the previous Superman movies.

It may be way late in the game to join in on this thread but i really like this post:up: I'm a huge fan of SR and i absolutely love Brandon Routh as Superman, but i can definitely see where you are coming from. How long, and what kind of training/work out would you say BR needs to bulk up to your suggested Superman size
 
Straight from Brandon: he was 220 during the shoot, after gaining about 22 lbs of muscle. He was perfect for me. i dont really want him to get above 225.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"