Dragonball Z question

[Sloth7d]

I say they should end with frieza and put in all the fusion gimmicks in there while they can...

however if we are moving from the norm, i would say move straight on to bebi, he's probably the best dragonball villain ever but was unfortunately under used...

as for powerl evels, they should do super saiyan fusions and super saiyan four...

2 and 3 are kinda cheap gimmicks,

It's bad enough DBGT exist, I hope they never make it a live action movie.
I don't think they can do fusion either. I can't picture how it'd look.

 

[Alchemyst]

there is alot that goes on in each of the sagas, so i'm guessing that if they are doing more than one movie, storylines are gonna be condensed, who knows, the vegeta saga and frieza saga could be all in one movie.

 

[November Rain]

It's bad enough DBGT exist, I hope they never make it a live action movie.
I don't think they can do fusion either. I can't picture how it'd look.

you have to look at certain arcs individually and you'll find that the bebi arc actually does more for character progression than parts of the buu arc

bebi is actually a worthy bad guy with a decent motive
He's just not the next big bad, he uses a current strong person as a host
The reintroduction of the saiyan tale into the mythos
SSJ four looks badass.

buu just happened to be this 'evil' being and too much effort was spent trying to take him out. It seems there were multiple points within the saga where goku, gotenks, vegetto and gohan all could have easily taken him out (in his various forms) but for some reason or other, they stalled and caused the saga to drag out even further.

With bebi being able to change host, this wasn't really the case for his saga and the idea of using a saiyan to defeat a saiyan is a win/win victory for him.

i'd much rather see elements of fusion with bebi as the main antagonist because buu really brings nothing to the table.

to be fair, without the introduction of future trunks, cell is a bit 2d as well but at least he has the perfect fighting style and it'd be interesting to see if it could be bested (but that's all been done before).

 

[November Rain]

Fusion is just a simple case of gaining an actor who is somewhat a cross between the two leads and having him in a reverse costume get up (if we are talking about the ear rings) or just having goku in the fusion gear and having him use vegeta's move set (or vice versa).

 

[Sloth7d]

You have a point about Bebi. However, I still hope they never bring up any of the other elements of GT. No SSJ4, Hell 17, Shenrons, or the other garbage piled up in there. Well, Super Oozaru form's okay, but other than that garbage.

I still hold my disagreement with fusion. They can try to find an actor who appears to be a cross between the two, but I don't see it happening. In any case even if they find this guy, it'd still be pretty hard to pull off. Most audience members would still see this guy as someone entirely different rather than a fusion.

 

[November Rain]

Well i don't see why a saiyan's ultimate form shouldn't look closer to his oozaru state then perhaps just the glowing hair and green eyes. They are beasts overall, why not make them look more beastly. I mean this happens with naruto with him looking 'foxlike' when he undergoes power boosts so the same should be applicable here (especially if the oozaru form is mentioned/used).

Doing a dragonball movie somewhere down the line without fusion is nearly damn impossible. Every entrance scene for a game leads up to gogeta reveal at the end of it, it's dragonball's biggest trump. NO baddie is even worth mentioning unless you see what they have against a fused being (although none have really faired well in the past).

A simple merger of personalities with one character within another's garments (goku in vegetta's clothing) would easily suffice.

heck even have a scene of humour where they are both fighting over whose looks the fused entity should take (have this with gotenks) and them settling on some neutral looks.

I would say that the neutral looks of gotenks of and gogeta/vegetto should look like one another...

racially speaking, it'd be nice if vegeta and goku where like black and white so the fused beings could easily be recognised as being mix raced but that is a dream.

at the very least give, the goku actor some prosthetics to give him some of vegeta's physical likeness...

 

[Sloth7d]

There's nothing wrong with making it look more... beastly. Heck, SSJ Oozaru is as beastly as it gets. In fact, on it's own I have no problem with SSJ4. However, coupled next to the other SSJ forms, well let's see.

SSJ1

First form we see. Hair becomes blonde, hair goes up, and eyes turn green. This look is commonly associated with DBZ nowm though ironically they were the second to use it.

SSJ2

Hair becomes more refined/spikier. Eyes become more tealish. Hair is still yellow and resembles the first form


Ascended Saiyan aka USSJ

Muscles bulk up. That seems to be it. Still resembles SSJ1.

USSJ2

Hair becomes super pointy like it can prick you. Muscles become steroided past Brock Lesnar levels. However speed is lost due to the size of this form. Still resembles SSJ1 form aswell as the other forms, though.

SSJ3

The form Goku and Gotenks manage by training outside of earth's dimension.
The hair goes to medusa levels. The eye brows dissapear. Hair is still yellow. Eyes still greenish.

Golden Oozaru

A feral version of the SSJ forms. A giant feral version. You become a giant ape-wolf with golden fur. However the eyes become red, though it still resembles the other SSJ forms.

Now for the grand finale--


SSJ4 a.k.a "WTF?! Who thought of this?!"

Scrolling down through the list, it becomes quite obvious. One of these things do not belong. It's like looking in the Jughead digest books and spotting the odd things in the pictures. I mean seriously, how do you go from SSJ1, to 2, to 3, to SuperFanfic4.
First off, the fur is red!!! Freaking red! Where did this come from?! Why is it red?! After all these transformation, why red all of a sudden?! It makes no sense. It's like after watching Naruto's red chakra'd fox tailed form transformations(0-4), he suddenly transforms int ao 9tailed Kyubi which is pink chakra'd with blue hair. Yeah.
That's another thing. The hair is black or I'm guessing it never changes. So after 7 transformations (I'm counting LSSJ) where the hair is a prominent part of appearance and does change, in this form it does not. It just gets a little messy. Yeah, pillow hair. Look out bad guys, Goku's here to save the day, and he's got PILLOW HAIR. Then to add further insult to the other forms not only are the eyes not greenish, but they are a completely different color depending on who transformed. In fact, the entire transformation varies person to person, unlike previous forms. Gogeta, Goku, and Vegeta all have different colors of fur, eyes, and hair styles when in Superinconsistent4 mode. It's like someones bad fan fic made it into the DBZ mythos and is an insult to Akira Toriyama's works.

Not to mention it's the weakest form ever. You might aswell not transform into it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kApU-3s-6h0

end rant/

Sorry bout that. My anger for GT burns as strong as ever.

As for fusion, I'm not saying that can't do it, but it would never come out right, imo. There are somethings that can be left out of movies, but still have it work. Take Spider-man's web-shooters for instance.

 

[November Rain]

Alright this is easily deduced right here

ssj 1, 2, and 3 are the ultimate forms of saiyans without tails

oozaru, golden oozaru and ssj 4 are the ultimate forms of saiyans with tails

they run in parallel to one another, not in circuit.

ssj4 is not the next step up from ssj 3 and hence why its form must be completely distinguished from the non-tail forms and hence the drastic redesign.

vegeta's variation may be due to the fact he never got their naturally and was artificially raised to that powerlevel. gogeta is simply an amalgam of a fusion between this natural and unnatural form and hence why his look varies from both of theirs.

voila.

simple logic.

 

[Alchemyst]

IMO they should just come up with a plot for the film instead of it being a retelling of the story. Each of the animated DBZ movies took place in an alternate timeline that didnt coincide with the show at all times. The same could be done for the live action movie

 

[animefan]

i say stick to the story as much as you can

 

[CrashNburn]

i doubt it extremely that they will even come close to making 5 dbz movies

 

[animefan]

yeah or that i want 5 dbz movies, especially if the first one sucks.

 

[Alchemyst]

yeah or that i want 5 dbz movies, especially if the first one sucks.

I cant even imagine fox making 5 DB movies, I think if they stick to one series like DBZ, it would be a better film. GT was not really that great and IMO, i feel like they were running out of ideas, Akira Toriyama didnt have any interest in DB at that point.

 

[Timstuff]

Alright this is easily deduced right here

ssj 1, 2, and 3 are the ultimate forms of saiyans without tails

oozaru, golden oozaru and ssj 4 are the ultimate forms of saiyans with tails

they run in parallel to one another, not in circuit.

ssj4 is not the next step up from ssj 3 and hence why its form must be completely distinguished from the non-tail forms and hence the drastic redesign.

vegeta's variation may be due to the fact he never got their naturally and was artificially raised to that powerlevel. gogeta is simply an amalgam of a fusion between this natural and unnatural form and hence why his look varies from both of theirs.

voila.

simple logic.

Simple logic would be this:

DBGT is BS.

 

[November Rain]

well some of dragonball is complete trollocks.

you can't look at everything collectively.

 

[Sloth7d]

Alright this is easily deduced right here

ssj 1, 2, and 3 are the ultimate forms of saiyans without tails

oozaru, golden oozaru and ssj 4 are the ultimate forms of saiyans with tails

they run in parallel to one another, not in circuit.

ssj4 is not the next step up from ssj 3 and hence why its form must be completely distinguished from the non-tail forms and hence the drastic redesign.

vegeta's variation may be due to the fact he never got their naturally and was artificially raised to that powerlevel. gogeta is simply an amalgam of a fusion between this natural and unnatural form and hence why his look varies from both of theirs.

voila.

simple logic.

Even the form SSJ4 comes from (golden Oozaru) has a tail and yellow fur, though, yet SSJ4 doesn't even resemble that. Not even remotely.

As for Vegeta obtaining the form, scientifically it was no different than how Goku did it. Blots waves were the cause, it just came from a different source. It's like comparring getting tanned by the sun or tanned by a machine. In the end you're still going to turn bronze. The source doesn't matter.

 

[November Rain]

well frieza's final form has no resemblence to his past forms, no one really complains there, so why make it an issue here. It is what it is...

as for the source, how are you to know the effects, unless the creator actually gave a press release, your guess is as good as mine so why not choose one that makes you sleep at night.

 

[Sloth7d]

Frieza's final form is his true form, and not a transformation. His other forms are disguises, basically, which were made to conserve energy. In any case they still have the same color scheme and some resemblance.

 

[Sloth7d]

Basically, I can't understand why it didn't look some what like this--

 

[November Rain]

one could argue that lower forms of saiyans are power conserving forms as well since they are only used sparingly and one has to train to stay in that form without the loss of large amounts of energy. It's just that we happen to see them move through them so it's less aparent.

if frieza took a heavy enough beating, his form would also revert back to its simplest form...

the only person to abstain from this rule would perhaps be cell but he physiology is different from other living beings.

the golden form looks alright and was probably their first idea. Personally i prefer the red, especially the all over red of gogeta.

There isn't much different between a tailed gogeta or a non tailed gogeta otherwise.

Perhaps they were originally planning on having a teen gotenks and gogeta on at the same time and wanted their designs to be varied to not confuse them (without coping out with a simple hair cut variation).

I think fur and eye colour aren't really that important at the end of the day, as long as a physical representation of a change in power level can be noticed,, it's all that really matters.

 

[Lobo]

Brolly, but lets make sure we get a good first film before deciding on the villain for the 6th

 

[Sloth7d]

one could argue that lower forms of saiyans are power conserving forms as well since they are only used sparingly and one has to train to stay in that form without the loss of large amounts of energy. It's just that we happen to see them move through them so it's less aparent.

It's completely different. With SSJ they are transforming up and trying to reach new levels of power. In this case, even though each new stage brought a serious upgrade in power, they always remained consistent with certain traits, the blonde hair and green eyes.

Freeza was actually reverting backwards, and his other forms are a ruse and not his true appearance.

if frieza took a heavy enough beating, his form would also revert back to its simplest form...

The final form we see Freeza in was his true form though, which didn't transform into the weaker states after he cut himself in half.

the only person to abstain from this rule would perhaps be cell but he physiology is different from other living beings.

If you exclude GT, then all the characters are govern by this rule. That's why I never acknowledge it. Most everything that happens in GT is a contradiction to everything that's happened before it.

the golden form looks alright and was probably their first idea. Personally i prefer the red, especially the all over red of gogeta.

Well, I don't mind how SSJ4's look on it's own. Coupled with the fact that it's stated to be SSJ4 and accossiated with the term SSJ, however, irritates me. If they were going to do that, the fur should have been blonde, especially since the form itself comes from controlling the giant golden monkey state.

There isn't much different between a tailed gogeta or a non tailed gogeta otherwise.

Perhaps they were originally planning on having a teen gotenks and gogeta on at the same time and wanted their designs to be varied to not confuse them (without coping out with a simple hair cut variation).

I think fur and eye colour aren't really that important at the end of the day, as long as a physical representation of a change in power level can be noticed,, it's all that really matters.

I think they should stick with the guide line for SSJ given to them instead of making it completely different. The key traits should have remained the same.
However, you bring up another problem though. SSJ4 came off as the weakest of all the transformations and never made a difference in battle except against Ice Shenron(even though Goku still would have lost if not for Fire Shenron), and when Gogeta used the form. In fact, Gt is pretty well known with it's power level inconsistancies which is another reason I hated the series. Toei couldn't have made a bigger mess of Akira Toriyama's work.

 

[November Rain]

well if we want to talk about power inconsistencies, then how could a super saiyan goku even spar with a kid buu or how more than enough power in that state to launch his genki-dama attack sucessfully. Even though he was reverted back to full strength, he only used a fraction of it in super saiyan form to finish off the attack.

the inconsistencies start coming up in the buu saga, i won't even go into the debate about which one of his forms is supposed to be the strongest etc...

 

[Avangarde]

Basically, I can't understand why it didn't look some what like this--

He looks like he has banana's coming out of his head.

 

[Sloth7d]

well if we want to talk about power inconsistencies, then how could a super saiyan goku even spar with a kid buu or how more than enough power in that state to launch his genki-dama attack sucessfully. Even though he was reverted back to full strength, he only used a fraction of it in super saiyan form to finish off the attack.

the inconsistencies start coming up in the buu saga, i won't even go into the debate about which one of his forms is supposed to be the strongest etc...

Oh, I agree. Though, I don't think Kid Buu was an inconsistency. Not the spirit bomb part atleast. Kid Buu was having a hard enough time deflecting that muchgathered energy on it's own, once Goku's SSJ form gave it an extra push that was it. Though there are still many inconsistency through out DB-DBZ. I'm starting to figure it just happens in comics, even if only one person's been writing it.
However, GT is just one enormous inconsistency. From the get go, for some reason Goku has to use his SSJ form to fight several beings through out the universe, even though aside from sealed entities, beings from different dimensions, and recently created monsters no being in the universe should have powers near Freeza's level since he was the ruler of it. The strongest until Goku became a SSJ. Then there are instances like Uub hitting Super 17 with punches that don't even make him move, yet SSJ1Goku kicks him across the globe. SSJVegeta loses to regular #17. Goku not being able to power up around pollution. What is he Captain Planet? The wind keeping Goku from powering up. Goku's clothes magically regenerating when he turns SSJ4 from Oozaru and as a kid. Goku winning ALL the fights(well that's not an inconsistency just one of my peeves.) Freeza and Cell losing to Base Kid Goku. Golden Oozaru Bebi not being able to destroy the earth with his kamehameha when he wanted to. Base Kid Goku defeating enemies he couldn't as a SSJ4. SSJ4 never defeating any opponent outside of Ice Shenron who he needed help to beat. And there are other things. GT was just a quick cash cow with no thought or imagination behind it. It's a series I'm embarrassed exist, because it insults my intelligence, my love for DB, and Akira Toriyama's vision.