DTL All-Star Selection Thread

[XFanTim]

Hi, everyone.

Most people seem to have voted in the championship match, so while we're waiting for that to finish up I figured we could get started on picking the All-Star teams. I decided it might be nice to have all the nominations and arguments in favor in their own thread, so everyone can see them and they don't get buried.

I've posted below the list of All-Star noms I know about (using the Commish account, so Wieg can add to it if some were PMed to him), as well as any justifications for those noms offered by the people who submitted them.

We weren't allowed to nominate guys from our own teams, but if you want to make a case for your guys now is the time to do it. Just post your argument below.

At some point, wieg will announce that All-Star voting is open (as well as clarifying some rules like how many people we vote for, and whether to PM the votes to him -- as we've done in the past -- or to just post them here.)

- Tim

 

[DTL Commish]

When does voting open? I don't know, ask Wieg

How do we vote? In the past, we PMed votes to Wieg. Personally, I don't see why we can't all just post our votes publicly like we did with nominations, but I guess it's up to Wieg

How many do we vote for? I don't know, ask Wieg

Do we vote only for our own conference's team, or for both conferences? I assume we can vote for both conferences since we nominated for both conferences, but I guess it's up to Wieg

Can we vote for our own characters? I don't know, ask Wieg

Who does the writeups for the All-Star teams? The people who just missed the finals. In this case, Wieg and Ahura/Khell. (If for some reason one of them doesn't want to do it or doesn't have time, it could be passed to another active owner. Aristotle, maybe?)

(Obviously, I'm expecting Wieg to fill in the answers to most of these questions.)

 

[DTL Commish]

Ubers
Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner)
Doomsday/Brainiac
Hadrian (Daemonite)
Captain Marvel (Genis x2)
Thanos
The Turtle

Mediums
Byakko
Magneto (Pre-Fatal Attractions)
Mountjoy
The Vision

Regulars
Proctor
Jaine Cutter
Darkchylde
The Atom
Deadpool

 

[DTL Commish]

Ubers
Tony Stark: Sorcerer Supreme
Fernus the Burning
Josef Huber
Baron Zemo (w/ Moonstones)
Superman Prime

Mediums
Kang
Brainiac-417
Steel

Regulars
Death Wolverine
Devil Slayer
Black Panther
Midnighter

 

[DTL Commish]

Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner)
Tim says: "In week 5 I detailed at length how my team would control the tech-heavy battlefield and use it to take down the opposition. So what does Kyle do in the first five seconds of the fight? Elctromagnetic pulse. Thus wiping out my strategy and handing me my lone loss of the regular season."

Doomsday/Brainiac
Ari says: "He's unstoppable. The only workable way to take him out was battlefield removal, and I don't think anyone was even successful with that. He's too fast and strong for any conventional attack, and too psionically tough for a psi-attack. He might be susceptible to magic through his Kryptonian DNA, but it becomes moot when up against his speed and strength. In a word, he is literally unbeatable."

Hadrian (Daemonite)
Ari says: “I don't really have as many flowery things to say about him, because he was so overshadowed by D/B's performance, but he was one of the most solid players in that conference all season long.”

Captain Marvel (Genis x2)
Ari says: “Like D/B, I believe that Genis is tuber, but I seem to be the only one who thinks so, despite the fact that, at least the way AS wrote him, Genis can and does predict anything and everything, and knows anything and everything, while conveniently sidestepping the whole "cosmic awareness drove him insane" thing.”

Thanos
Ari says: “Another ‘Shouldn't He Be Tuber?’ character, Thanos is, like D/B, virtually unbeatable. I mean, isn't the only thing that can kill him a specialized Thanos-killing forcefield?”
Nightwing says: “He seemed to be the only Uber that caused so many people trouble. When he was faced owners had to really strategise and formulate plans to take him down. Otherwise it was a stalemate and I like characters that require people to think and apply effort.”

The Turtle
Wieg says: “Call him cheap. Call him uber. Call him a freaky old man with a shell fetish. But he's still a very dangerous opponent, and when used effectively, watch out.”

Byakko
Tim says: "One of the most dangerous mediums out there. She's a factor almost every week, but perhaps most significantly in week 10 where her phasing and gravity powers were used to split up the opposition, disrupt their communications, and destroy any of the battlefield tech they might have been able to use. With Byakko keeping their team off balance, Ahura and Khell suffered their second and final loss of the regular season."
Ari says: “Everything Tim said, I agree with. In my Week 12 match against the character, I think Byakko was the toughest character to account for.”
Wieg says: “Gravity manipulation and intangibility? That's one heck of a combo. And LV used that combo quite effectively.”

Magneto (Pre-Fatal Attractions)
Ari says: “He didn't show up every match, but when he was there, he was on fire. He's got a myriad of uses, and the only thing that keeps him in a lower ranking is the lower level of sheer force he can apply. He's one of the most versatile meds in the game.”
Nightwing says: “A very powerful Medium for this tournament. Was able to take a large number of Ubers out successfully. He is probably top end medium but its his overall telepathy resistance and other traits that makes him very effective and near unstoppable.”

Mountjoy
Ari says: “I ****ing hate this character, but no All-Star team from that Conference would be complete without MountJoy.”
Wieg says: “Cheap or not, this guy is deadly effective. You may have to sacrifice your own guys, but it might just be worth it.”

The Vision
Nightwing says: “Could tap into any tech source and over run it giving a great advantage to the owner much like Steel. But his extras such as energy projection and intangibility made him a worthy opponent.”

Proctor
Tim says: "Between brain scrambling and a sword that can cut through anything, Proctor has an answer for everything. He too may have been at his best against my team in week 5, when he managed to keep one of my ubers (Hadrian) busy for a while, and eventually killed my other one (Zoom). Not to mention he masterminded the whole thing."
Ari says: “Again, what Tim said, I can't really add to.”

Jaine Cutter
Tim says: "She took on Quasar in week 4 and Thanos in week 7. Not bad for a reg. She benefitted from AS's lack of a writeup in the latter case, and from some awesome stick figure illustrations in the former, but still... this chick's got cojones."

Darkchylde
Ari says: “It was hard for me to remember a lot of regs that really did it for me this season, and I didn't want to choose a third member of the lineup that beat me in my first match, so I went with Darkchylde.”

The Atom
Wieg says: “Is there a more dangerous regular? That's a rhetorical question. Sort of.”

Deadpool
Wieg says: “C'mon! It's freakin' Deadpool! Is someone talking about me? Shut up, I'm working. Hey, screw you man! You'd like that, wouldn't you? ...maybe...”

 

[DTL Commish]

Tony Stark: Sorcerer Supreme
Tim says: Iron Man's brain and Dr. Strange's powers make him one of the most dangerous uber mages. He was at his best in week 8, where he managed to take down Baron Zemo. Zemo's Moonstones couldn't help him after a spell made him forget how to use them.
Ari says: “If you think you're detecting a pattern in my nominations, a tendency towards ‘Shouldn't He Be Tuber?’ characters, you're right.”
Wieg says: “What really needs to be said. Strange level spell casting at Iron Man computer speeds? Talk about pushing the tubar, and a great character to have on your side.”

Fernus the Burning
Tim says: "After nominating Kyle Rayner and Proctor, I feel I have to nominate the guys that beat them in an impressive week 11 battle. One of the most versatile ubers in this thing, Fernus proved too much for Kyle to handle."

Josef Huber
Ari says: “I'm not entirely sure how this character can even be allowed. If I was more well-versed in X-Men history, I'd be on this guy like a rat on a Chee-To.”

Baron Zemo (w/ Moonstones)
Wieg says: “Brains, powers, and the will to use them. Not someone you want to fight. And he held his own against some of the top characers in the League. So he must be perfect for an All-Star team.”

Superman Prime
Wieg says: “Is he overpowered? Tuber? Cheap? One thing's for sure is that he can probably kick your ass.”

Kang
Tim says: "A later addition to his team, Kang has more than proved his worth. In the aforementioned week 11 battle he managed to not only defeat Proctor but the Vision as well."

Brainiac-417
Ari says: “The unbeatable med.”

Steel
Nightwing says: “He was used so effectively by his owner. He's a valuable asset to any team and his over all skill levels make him a tough opponent.”

Death Wolverine
Ari says: “Really the only reg from this conference that jumped out at me as having really kicked ass.”

Devil Slayer
Ari says: “Like I said earlier, aside from a couple, there weren't a lot of regs that really did it for me. I remember Devil Slayer from one of the first matches I read, before I even started playing officially, and I believe he killed Zauriel in a pretty well-written match (this was before X went nuts).”

Black Panther
Wieg says: “T'Challa is a dangerous opponent. An expert in almost everything. And Harl made you remember that when you faced him.”

Midnighter
Wieg says: “Not sure which version was used better, but does it really matter?”
Nightwing says: “I chose the Post-Worldstorm version over the other Midnighter as I felt he was used to great effect. He, like Thanos, is an opponent that requires fore thought to defeat. Ari's use of this character left alot of opponents struggling to find ways to handle him. A valuable reg.”
Tim notes: The two Midnighters are similar enough that I felt that listing them separately would unfairly split the vote. So I just listed Midnighter. If you prefer a version, you can specify the version when you vote, and if Midnighter makes the team it will be which ever version was preferred by more people.

 

[XFanTim]

Now here's the case for picking my characters. Hopefully this will encourage a few of you to make similar arguments for your own team members (or really for any character who you'd like to see on the All-Star team). This is also a chance to brag about some of your favorite moments with these characters over the course of the season.

Doomsday-Brainaic
He's strong and fast enough to beat a JLA team consisting of Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Flash, Green Lantern, Orion, Plastic Man, and the Huntress. Against someone without Superman-level speed, he'll basically obliterate them before they can blink, especially if you pair him with someone like Darkchylde who can teleport him right into striking range (and rescue him from attempts at removing him from the battlefield -- his only real vulnerability). He also has Brainiac's intelligence and telepathic attacks like psi-blasts, plus telepathic shields so good that Martian Manhunter couldn't even detect Brainiac's mind with a direct scan. Brainiac was only forced out of Doomsday's body when Superman slapped a psi-blocker right on his forehead, something few people could get close enough to do. And even then, you'd still be left fighting Doomsday.

In particular, it's worth noting that most of the top-level Marvel ubers don't have Superman-level reflexes, which puts them at an immediate disadvantage against Doomsday. I exploited this when Doomsday fought Thanos in Week 2 (although there I used Tempo's time manipulation to slow Thanos even further.)

Hadrian
He's got an extensive list of powers, including strength, speed, flight, invisibility, energy blasts, forcefields, regeneration, enhanced senses . . . and of course, teleportation. He's proven to be physically a match for Superman-level beings like Mr. Majestic, but the teleportation makes him even more dangerous. He can teleport someone from across the globe without knowing where they are to begin with. In other words, he basically guarantees his team will get the drop on their opponents.

Oh, and my version is evil. Which brings me to my favorite Hadrian moment: in week 12 he teleported Hal Jordan up into space and teleported the ring right off his finger, leaving him defenseless against the vacuum.

Magneto
He controls metals and the full electro-magnetic spectrum, and has even shown an ability to manipulate gravity on occasion. His forcefield is strong enough to withstand damn near anything any regular or medium will hit him with, and he's not going to fall to telepathy either -- his telepathic resistance is high enough that he's sometimes even withstood Xavier's uber-level telepathy. He also has electromagnetic senses, and has located and attacked opponents when they were miles away. And he's such a good multi-tasker that he can often take on the opposing medium and multiple regs, freeing up the regs on his team to help out against the opposing uber (as I've done with Darkchylde against magical ubers). Magneto will be an especially useful member of the All-Star team if they're going up against foes who use metal or electronic weapons and technology (like, say, basically every medium or reg who's been nominated from the National Conference).

Some season highlights for Magneto include trapping the Atom in a magnetic atom trap in week 7, and frying Doom 2099's phasing device when he was halfway through a wall in week 10. (It's established that Magneto can create electric fields that can affect phased individuals, as he once did against Shadowcat.) Oh, and he killed Thanos in week 2 with a massive solar flare after Darkchylde teleported them to the sun (although in fairness that was uber-level Magneto, and Doomsday-Brainiac had already softened Thanos up a bit).

Darkchylde
She can teleport through space (including intergalactic range), through time, and through dimensions. This makes her a threat even to many ubers due to her ability to remove them from the battlefield (not to mention that she can be used to retrieve characters from her own team who've been taken off the battlefield.) By teleporting her teammates to strategic locations, she can help insure that they get favorable matchups. She also has some magical abilities (astral projection, scrying, detection of magic, etc.), which are amped up to uber level if she takes the fight to Limbo. Her partially-demonic soul gives her such strong psi-defenses that Xavier couldn't even read her thoughts.

But the reason Darkchylde really needs to be on the All-Star team is because of her magic-disrupting Soul Sword. Given that the opposition will likely have a Sorcerer Supreme on their side, doesn't it make sense to choose someone with a proven anti-magic ability?

 

[Aristotle]

When voting for our conference, can we vote for our own players? If not, can I vote for the other Midnighter?

Here's the case for my boys:

Superman-Prime: SMP joined the DTL what, halfway through? And participated in like two matches? And yet he still made huge waves and a huge impact on this season. I frankly don't know why I didn't just use him in every match after I got him. SMP is bigger, stronger, and faster than Superman, and he's misguided/evil/tragically good, meaning he can gel with pretty much any squad.

That's going to be important in an All-Star match: team chemistry. We don't get to use the (tired, worn-out, ********) excuse that "my team's played together all season long." These are new teams now, and team chemistry will be a key factor. Out of the potential nominees from this conference, expect Brainy and Steel to know who SMP is. Brainy is cold enough not to care if it wins him the fight. Steel...well, I'm just not betting on Steel being on the squad. If it comes down to having Steel on the team or having SMP on the team, c'mon, you'd rather have SMP. Besides, I'm sure we're all voting Brainy in the med slot anyway.

So with no real opponents on his squad, SMP can be allowed to pass himself off as Superman, just as he did for my team during the season. When he thinks he can be Superman, Prime is much less likely to come unhinged. So now we've got a super-Superman, willing to work with any squad, because he's played hero and villain, and doesn't even know the difference between the two anymore.

Paired up with good support staff like Brainiac-417 and Black Panther, he can be outfitted with psi-shields and other tech that can make him even more formidable than he already is. Add to that his lack of magic-weakness (which basically means a VERY high resistance, since he's Superman Prime), and this is one very solid all-around uber. Pair him up with Stark Supreme and we have the ultimate brick and the ultimate mage. I don't see how your uber votes can go to anyone but Superman-Prime and Stark Supreme.

Midnighter
What are your regs going to be doing in a given match? Fighting and supporting the ubers. Out of our list of nominees in the reg department, the only guy who's going to be much help as support staff is Black Panther. So let's call him a shoo-in. Highly skilled martial combatant, tech genius, he's the best all-around reg.

So who's the other guy gonna be? Well, since none of them are that good with support, it's gotta be the combat aspect. For that, we have to turn to Midnighter, the reg so nice, he got drafted twice. Now sure, Death Wolverine has done some good solid work this season, but to be honest, anything he can do, Midnighter can do better. That's always been the Midnighter gimmick. Where Wolverine is the best at what he does, Midnighter is better than everyone else. He's taken down Superman-sized threats singlehandedly in the source material, all thanks to his precognition and his unmatched hand-to-hand combat skills.

Finally, this is the All-Star Game, and the votes are to be based more on in-season production than anything else like raw power or comics-based achievements. Midnighter was on two teams for most of this season! You go back and look through the match threads. Not only did he serve as one of my regs almost every match, but he made some good appearances for (I think) Khel and Ahura as well. Honestly, if it was my choice, I'd support Midnighter and Anarky as the reg team of our conference, but Midnighter and Black Panther sounds like a hell of a combo as well.

So vote with your head, folks:
Superman-Prime
Stark Supreme
Brainiac-417
Midnighter
Black Panther

 

[Khellendros]

Hmm. I'd actually rather have The Burning or Zemo than Emoboy Prime.

 

[XFanTim]

When voting for our conference, can we vote for our own players?

I was thinking we probably could, but I'll add it to the FAQ above for wieg to answer whenever he turns up.

 

[Aristotle]

You think Fernus stands a chance against the ubers the Timely Conference has in the running? Hell no! We're the weak conference in this thing, man. We gotta take our two baddest of asses and put them on the squad.

 

[wiegeabo]

Here's what I'm thinking in regards to the questions in the FAQ.


When does voting open? Monday, May 3rd if everyone has already nominated.


How do we vote? If no one cares, we can post votes in here. I just use pm's in busy threads because votes can easily get lost.


How many do we vote for? I'm thinking you get one vote for each position. So you get to vote for 2U, 1M, and 2R.


Do we vote only for our own conference's team, or for both conferences? I'd like to make it vote for your conference only. Then the match is more of one conference fighting another. But since it looks like there's so few of us left, I'm willing to open it up. (Which would mean you vote 2U1M2R in both conferences.)


Can we vote for our own characters? I'm really conflicted on this one and would like to hear input.


Who does the writeups for the All-Star teams? The people who just missed the finals. In this case, Wieg and Ahura/Khell. (If for some reason one of them doesn't want to do it or doesn't have time, it could be passed to another active owner. Aristotle, maybe?) This is just fine.


Any other questions we need to get answered?

 

[XFanTim]

I think you mean Monday, May 5th.

Other than that, all the above answers look fine.

Given the relatively small number of people who've been active lately, I think it makes sense to have everyone vote for both teams (except, I guess, for the owners who'll be doing the match, since it doesn't really make sense to have people picking their opponent's characters.)

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with letting people vote for their own characters if they so choose. It was nice that we had people nominate from each other's teams rather than just submitting all their own guys, but now that we have diverse list of guys to choose from I don't think it's necessary to maintain that for the actual voting. Letting people vote for their own guys means characters belonging to active voters are more likely to get picked, but I don't really think that's a bad thing.

 

[XFanTim]

By the way, just to reiterate one point in arguing for my guys above, it's worth noting that Doomsday/Brainiac, Hadrian, Magneto, and Darkchylde all have substantial amounts of telepathic resistance -- which is important if they might be going up against someone like Fernus or Huber. (Obviously, it matters more for the ubers, but there are ways telepathy could be used against the regs without it constituting an attack -- e.g., probing their minds to learn all the details of their team's strategy.)

 

[wiegeabo]

I think you mean Monday, May 5th.

Other than that, all the above answers look fine.

Given the relatively small number of people who've been active lately, I think it makes sense to have everyone vote for both teams (except, I guess, for the owners who'll be doing the match, since it doesn't really make sense to have people picking their opponent's characters.)

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with letting people vote for their own characters if they so choose. It was nice that we had people nominate from each other's teams rather than just submitting all their own guys, but now that we have diverse list of guys to choose from I don't think it's necessary to maintain that for the actual voting. Letting people vote for their own guys means characters belonging to active voters are more likely to get picked, but I don't really think that's a bad thing.

No, I meant Monday, May 3rd, 2010! Stop putting words in my mouth. :P

 

[Aristotle]

I really think we shouldn't vote for opp conferences. That means we're getting votes from people with a vested interest in an inferior team.

 

[wiegeabo]

I really think we shouldn't vote for opp conferences. That means we're getting votes from people with a vested interest in an inferior team.

That's sort of why I was opposed to it.


Also, I'll let people vote for their own characters if no one has a complaint.

 

[XFanTim]

I really think we shouldn't vote for opp conferences. That means we're getting votes from people with a vested interest in an inferior team.

Well, I thought about that, but I figured we'll all be voting on who wins the match, too, so at some point we have to trust people to put any bias aside.

But really I'm fine with it either way.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Shouldn't the writers be able to choose their team of 5 among the 10 nominated?

It would seem to make more sense.

I am thinking along the lines of Khell who got stuck with a lousy line up because of me (I should have had Iron Stark in that match but of course I didn't , sorry Khell).

Iron Stark
Zemo or Fernus (thinking more Zemo though)
Brainiac 417
Midnighter
Black Panther

 

[XFanTim]

If we did it that way, though, people would probably mostly use the guys from their own teams because they know them better. Whereas in theory the All-Star game characters should be the ones the majority wants to see represent the conference. I don't think there are really any especially weak characters on the list. Hopefully if you got someone you're not that familiar with, other owners in your conference will submit suggestions on how to use them.

If we restrict voting to in-conference, then it'll basically be you/khell, ari and gog picking the team. Since you and Ari agreed on 4 out of 5, you'd almost certainly have
Stark Supreme
Brainiac-417
Midnighter
Black Panther

Gog might have to be the tie breaking vote on the second uber, since you and Khell have expressed a preference for Fernus/Zemo and Ari prefers Superman Prime. But it's not like any of them are weaklings.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Never said they were. And I do get Ari's point regarding SP but....

 

[wiegeabo]

Ok, I'm ready to open voting. Here's how it will work.

From each conference list that Tim posted at the top of the thread, vote for 2 Ubers, 1 Middleweight, and 2 Regulars.


I liked Ahura's idea of the owner getting to pick from the top nominated, but I think we can all trust each other to put together two kick ass teams that we'd like to see. So we owners will play with the five characters with the most votes.

But I will compromise. If there is a tie (like 3 ubers getting the most votes) I'll let the owner pick which characters they use. As long as lineups are finalized before I open the battle thread.


So, the last question I'll put forward: Should we do voting by pm's to keep it a surprise, or go ahead and make them public?

 

[XFanTim]

Personally, I think we might as well have everyone post them here. But I guess I'd be fine with it either way.

 

[wiegeabo]

Well, hell. I'll go first. I think the only easy choices I had were with the mediums. Trying to pick just two ubers and regs was a ***** for me. In fact, I kept flipping my uber choices as I was writing this little blurb.


Timely
Ubers
Doomsday/Brainiac
Captain Marvel (Genis x2)

Mediums
Byakko

Regulars
Proctor
The Atom


National
Ubers
Tony Stark: Sorcerer Supreme
Baron Zemo (w/ Moonstones)

Mediums
Brainiac-417

Regulars
Death Wolverine
Midnighter

 

[XFanTim]

I'm mostly going to go with guys I nominated (e.g. Stark, Kang, Proctor), except where I'd rather replace them with characters from my team. I feel a little guilty about going with so many of my own guys after Wieg honorably passed on Kyle Rayner for more powerful ubers, but darn it I just think my characters are that good. (Plus, they work well together.)

Doomsday/Brainiac has a big speed advantage on most of the other available ubers. (For the same reason, I gave the other team Superman Prime so they'd have someone who can keep up.) Hadrian also is faster than most of the other nominated ubers, and his ability to teleport people without knowing where they are ought to prevent the National team from just hiding all their guys with invisibility spells and such (which would be a good way to neutralize Doomsday's speed advantage, since speed isn't much good if you can't find your target).

Magneto ought to fare well against any of the opposing meds/regs, since they're all reliant on weapons/tech. Plus he has good senses to counter their efforts at stealth, and he can help defend Hadrian from EMPs and such.

Darkchylde is the only available character with anti-magic abilities, so she seems essential against Stark (who I thought was an obvious choice for the National team.)

Timely
Ubers
Doomsday/Brainiac
Hadrian (Daemonite)

Mediums
Magneto (Pre-Fatal Attractions)

Regulars
Proctor
Darkchylde


National
Ubers
Tony Stark: Sorcerer Supreme
Superman Prime

Mediums
Kang

Regulars
Black Panther
Midnighter