Spoilers Endgame Plot Hole: Was There Really "No Other Way"?

[Stormborn]

In Infinity War:
One of the major story conceits involves Doctor Strange going forward in time to look at all possible outcomes of the coming conflict:

We then see:

1. the Avengers/Guardians come close to defeating Thanos on Titan but lose because Star-Lord is overwhelmed by his emotions and screw up the plan when he learns about the death of Gamora.
2. Strange neglects to use the Time Stone in his fight with Thanos and willingly gives it up in exchange for Iron Man's life
3. Thor come close to killing Thanos with Stormbreaker but fail because he did not go for the head and Thanos survived long enough to use the gauntlet.

Half of all life in the universe is wiped out but as Strange turns to dust we're told that the 1 in 14,000,605 victory involved the snap happening:

This was a huge cliff hanger and raises all kinds of questions.

In Endgame

Tony Stark (alive because of Strange) is the MVP. He figures out how to retrieve the stones from other timelines and makes undoing the snap possible. He removes the stones from Thanos' gauntlet and uses them to destroy Thanos and his army.

However, we're never given a reason why Thanos completing the snap, only for the Avengers to undo it later was preferable to preventing it from happening in the first place. For me, this brings into question why there was "no other way".

We get no answers for:

1. Why couldn't Strange have used his foreknowledge to prevent Star-Lord from ruining their near victory on Titan?
   
   
2. Why couldn't Strange have used his sling ring portals to go from Titan to Earth (as we now know he can thanks to Endgame) and tell Thor to go for the head?

Does this seem like a plot hole to anyone else?

 

[Protar]

It's a bit of a stretch, but perhaps any reality in which the Stones continued to exist gathered together resulted in further trouble down the line. Thanos is super strong even without the stones, so it's possible that in many realities, the Avengers on Titan succeed in taking the Gauntlet from Thanos, only for him to get it back. Or perhaps after defeating Thanos they are overwhelmed by his army who take up Thanos' mission in his name. It's also possible that in many realities Strange dies before the end and ergo can't see far enough in the future to be sure that they win in the reality. Ultimately the winning reality was the one where Thanos succeeds in snapping and subsequently he destroys the Stones himself.

TL;DR The only truly victorious timeline is one where the stones are reduced to atoms and can never be used again. In all timelines where they aren't destroyed they are eventually used for evil again.

 

[Detective Conan]

1. Strange did see 14,000,605 futures so in theory he could’ve saw a scenario in which even if they stopped Starlord’s emotionally charged attack that ruined the plan they’d still lose some other way. Thanos might have killed them all anyway considering how much stronger he was than all of them even before using the Guantlet as demonstrated when he singlehandly defeated the Hulk with virtually zero help from the stones power. Plus, I’m not sure any of the heroes on Titan would even be able to use the power of the Gauntlets the same way Thanos did without succumbing to it(even with the stones not being fully collected).

2. We don’t know if Strange would’ve been able to find Thor in time to give that order.

 

[hisham]

If strange had stopped quill from waking up thanos and heroes manage to get gauntlet strange could atleast put him in mirror dimension even if they can't kill thanos

 

[Relugus]

I thought abouy how Scarlet Witch nearly killed Thanos...then I realised the artefact that Strange uses to control the Time Stone is The Eye of Agamotto.

The same Agamotto who orchestrated the "Great Lie."

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I thought abouy how Scarlet Witch nearly killed Thanos...then I realised the artefact that Strange uses to control the Time Stone is The Eye of Agamotto.

The same Agamotto who orchestrated the "Great Lie."

You're really hung up on this.

 

[Stormborn]

It's a bit of a stretch, but perhaps any reality in which the Stones continued to exist gathered together resulted in further trouble down the line.

That's the best theory I've heard but like you say, it's a bit of a stretch and unless Strange says so in a future film I'll find it hard to buy.

I actually wouldn't be surprised if we see the stones again. They've been destroyed before in the comics but always come back since they're fundamental to reality.

1. Strange did see 14,000,605 futures so in theory he could’ve saw a scenario in which even if they stopped Starlord’s emotionally charged attack that ruined the plan they’d still lose some other way. Thanos might have killed them all anyway considering how much stronger he was than all of them even without the Guantlet

If they could've removed the gauntlet, Strange could've immediately sent it out of Thanos reach and he would've stood a good chance of trapping Thanos himself in the mirror dimension.

2. We don’t know if Strange would’ve been able to find Thor in time to give that order.

Pre-Endgame I used to think that Strange didn't try and get a message to Thor because his sling ring portals don't work over that distance and the only thing he could influence was the Battle on Titan. Now we know he can easily use a portal to get from Titan to Earth and he could've easily used some of his 14,000,605 visions of the future to test the best way of getting a message to Thor and the other Avengers.

 

[ludovica]

As others have already said, probably Strange saw that any other action would have caused a reaction to effect approximately the same result anyway, except for that one singular path.
It is not "debatable" in-universe, the writers wrote it that way: obviously they could have created a different story but they went with this, effectively preemptively voiding plot holes about Strange's behavior and decisions.
He is so powerful he has to be plot nerfed.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

Thanos says it 3 times in endgame. It's because he's "inevitable."

He barely broke a sweat in IW. If he wanted them all dead he could have destroyed Titan, he could have killed Stark (and almost did) and would have moved on to torturing Strange or people Strange cares about to get the Time Stone.

Strange saw 1/14m wins for the avengers, so he played it exactly how he was meant to. Convincing Thanos he'd won and trading the Time stone for Stark's life played a huge part in that.

Regarding Op's specific questions:

1. Why couldn't Strange have used his foreknowledge to prevent Star-Lord from ruining their near victory on Titan? Who knows? Perhaps this leads to Thanos waking up even more desperate as the Avengers attempt to dismantle the gauntlet, again deciding to kill them all.
2. Why couldn't Strange have used his sling ring portals to go from Titan to Earth (as we now know he can thanks to Endgame) and tell Thor to go for the head? Who knows? Perhaps Strange is unable to convince Thor of this due to Thor's arrogance. Perhaps Thor does go for the head in this scenario but misses.

There's no real way to know some of these things. All we do know is Strange has FAR more information than we do. If he says they lose in 14m scenarios, we have to believe him.

The way I see it, there may have been other futures that resulted in Thanos' defeat. Lets say 2 futures out of 28 million or 3 futures out of 42 million. Strange picked the only one he saw. What's more realistic, is that he stopped searching after finding the one reality where they did win.

Bear in mind, Strange may have had to spend a minimum of something like 10-20 minutes in each reality to discover whether they won (perhaps more). So he spent (in his mind) a perceived 800+ years doing this. And maybe he would have had to look through another billion futures before he saw another future where they win. idk about you, but I'd have probably given up after the first million futures and said "it's over. we lose."

He played the only hand he knew they were capable of. And it resulted in a win. Where's the plot hole?

 

[Venom 1988]

Does this seem like a plot hole to anyone else?

No. Others have already explained it.

 

[Iron_Stark]

Unless numbers stop at 14,000,605, then there are multiple ways past 14million.

It's not a plot hole, but major B.S. that "it's the only way"

 

[NHawk19]

It's the only way that Strange found. Not a plot hole. There are conceivably more than the 14 million plus timelines he could have investigated.

Also I'd assume Strange's starting point was always from when he was on Titan. If he would've done the alternate reality search sooner he may have found something different. Especially since we now have an alternate timeline where Thanos left 2014 +/-, depending on how long it took him to create Pym particles, to come to 2023. Unless Tony's snap sent him and his minions back to 2014 with a mindwipe, which could also be part of why Strange signaled 1.

 

[BoredGuy]

Yeah, that's all he had time for, they were on a bit of a schedule... watching basically a summary video in his mind of an infinite number of timelines would take an infinite amount of time, something they did not have. He viewed as many as he could and found 1 out of 14m worked. That's a very small percentage, and might not have even been worth watching billions more possibilities to get a nominally better outcome

 

[Zarex]

I think leaving only one path to victory in 14M was clever writing, and necessary if you end the story with the good guys holding onto a miracle device. Why didn't they turn back time and save Tony? Or hand the nano gauntlet to Carol? Why didn't Strange restrain Star Lord or warn Thor to go for the head? Or at the very least, tell him to hold off on the taunting?

BECAUSE STRANGE SAW 14M POSSIBLE OUTCOMES AND EVERY OTHER CONCEIVABLE SEQUENCE OF EVENTS LED TO DEFEAT! TO DO ANYTHING ELSE WOULD HAVE DOOMED US ALL, YOU FOOL!

 

[Limonade]

Yeah, that's all he had time for, they were on a bit of a schedule... watching basically a summary video in his mind of an infinite number of timelines would take an infinite amount of time, something they did not have. He viewed as many as he could and found 1 out of 14m worked. That's a very small percentage, and might not have even been worth watching billions more possibilities to get a nominally better outcome

And who's to say--if Strange saw the 1 win in the middle of his search and goes on to look for a win-win and was still unable to find one?

 

[metaphysician]

And who's to say--if Strange saw the 1 win in the middle of his search and goes on to look for a win-win and was still unable to find one?

Indeed. If nothing else, he would have had a strong incentive once he found the one timeline, to explore a variety of "nearby" branches. If Sequence X produces victory, presumably X' and X" and etc could also produce victory, maybe even a better one.

Only Strange found that the variations came in two varieties: those with only trivial differences, and those where Thanos won.

 

[Stormborn]

Regarding Op's specific questions:

1. Why couldn't Strange have used his foreknowledge to prevent Star-Lord from ruining their near victory on Titan? Who knows? Perhaps this leads to Thanos waking up even more desperate as the Avengers attempt to dismantle the gauntlet, again deciding to kill them all.
2. Why couldn't Strange have used his sling ring portals to go from Titan to Earth (as we now know he can thanks to Endgame) and tell Thor to go for the head? Who knows? Perhaps Strange is unable to convince Thor of this due to Thor's arrogance. Perhaps Thor does go for the head in this scenario but misses.

There's no real way to know some of these things. All we do know is Strange has FAR more information than we do. If he says they lose in 14m scenarios, we have to believe him.

I think leaving only one path to victory in 14M was clever writing, and necessary if you end the story with the good guys holding onto a miracle device. Why didn't they turn back time and save Tony? Or hand the nano gauntlet to Carol? Why didn't Strange restrain Star Lord or warn Thor to go for the head? Or at the very least, tell him to hold off on the taunting?

BECAUSE STRANGE SAW 14M POSSIBLE OUTCOMES AND EVERY OTHER CONCEIVABLE SEQUENCE OF EVENTS LED TO DEFEAT! TO DO ANYTHING ELSE WOULD HAVE DOOMED US ALL, YOU FOOL!

As others have already said, probably Strange saw that any other action would have caused a reaction to effect approximately the same result anyway, except for that one singular path.
It is not "debatable" in-universe, the writers wrote it that way: obviously they could have created a different story but they went with this.

We're told that Strange saw there was no other way and obviously that's something the writers want us to accept. My issue is that it's not remotely believable when the the rest of the story has several close calls where Thanos almost loses and Strange - a genius - had 14 MILLION chances to look into the future, notice those close calls and consider how he could use his ridiculously OP powerset to turn them into victory.

1. Strange obviously looked at the future where they almost got the gauntlet off of Thanos and Star-Lord screwed it up. He chose that future and it's a scene he was in.
   
   It doesn't take a genius to look at that moment and think "what if I stopped Quill from disrupting the attempt to get the gauntlet off and then immediately trapped Thanos in the mirror dimension". There's no convincing reason why that wouldn't have worked.
   
   
2. It also doesn't take a genius to remember Thanos needed the mind stone for the snap and Vision had it. There's no way that teleporting to watch how Thanos gets the mind stone/how the other Avengers try to stop the snap wasn't something Strange did with his 14 million chances. And once he'd watched that, the obvious next step is for Strange to check out what would happen if he teleported to Wakanda and told Thor to go for the head. And on the off chance that doesn't work immediately he could spend a thousand futures trying different ways of convincing Thor to go for the head (0.007% of his 14 million futures). There's no convincing reason why that wouldn't have worked.

The human mind is awful at grasping huge numbers so it's worth taking a moment to think about just how huge of a number 14 million is. The world record holder for counting to 1 million out loud took 89 days of counting non-stop 16 hours a day. At that rate, 14 million would take 3 years and 5 months.

TLDR: There is just no way Strange didn't look at the options I'm speculating about and there's no convincing reason why they wouldn't have worked.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

We're told that Strange saw there was no other way and obviously that's something the writers want us to accept. My issue is that it's not remotely believable when the the rest of the story has several close calls where Thanos almost loses and Strange - a genius - had 14 MILLION chances to look into the future, notice those close calls and consider how he could use his ridiculously OP powerset to turn them into victory.

1. Strange obviously looked at the future where they almost got the gauntlet off of Thanos and Star-Lord screwed it up. He chose that future and it's a scene he was in.
   
   It doesn't take a genius to look at that moment and think "what if I stopped Quill from disrupting the attempt to get the gauntlet off and then immediately trapped Thanos in the mirror dimension". There's no convincing reason why that wouldn't have worked.
   
   
2. It also doesn't take a genius to remember Thanos needed the mind stone for the snap and Vision had it. There's no way that teleporting to watch how Thanos gets the mind stone/how the other Avengers try to stop the snap wasn't something Strange did with his 14 million chances. And once he'd watched that, the obvious next step is for Strange to check out what would happen if he teleported to Wakanda and told Thor to go for the head. And on the off chance that doesn't work immediately he could spend a thousand futures trying different ways of convincing Thor to go for the head (0.007% of his 14 million futures). There's no convincing reason why that wouldn't have worked.

The human mind is awful at grasping huge numbers so it's worth taking a moment to think about just how huge of a number 14 million is. The world record holder for counting to 1 million out loud took 89 days of counting non-stop 16 hours a day. At that rate, 14 million would take 3 years and 5 months.

TLDR: There is just no way Strange didn't look at the options I'm speculating about and there's no convincing reason why they wouldn't have worked.

Okay, all you are saying is that you are unconvinced. There's not "no convincing reason."

First off, there's a very convincing reason. Dr Strange saw proof of it and has yet to lie or have any benefit of lying on screen.

As I mentioned before, Thanos was nigh omnipotent in IW and barely even broke a sweat. The most pissed he got was on Titan when he threw a MOON at the heroes. If he wanted to, he could have killed most them immediately (see their interaction on Knowhere).

You are essentially making up fan fic battle strategies for the Avengers pre-snap right now. I could easily make up just as many reasons Thanos surmounts the scenarios you're referring to.

"what if Strange stopped Quill from disrupting the attempt to get the gauntlet off and then immediately trapped Thanos in the mirror dimension"

If Strange stopped restraining Thanos' arm with the bands of Cyttorak, he would have immediately grabbed Mantis with his right hand and crushed her spine.

At which point is Strange going to warn Thor? Obviously only after he gets to Earth (because there is no way of knowing Thor was on Nidavellir while he and Thanos were on Titan). So sometime between arriving on Titan and giving Thanos the Time stone.
- Say Strange leaves Titan, back to Earth before Thanos arrives: He proceeds to sit and wait in Wakanda for Thor to arrive. Without Strange would the Titan avengers even have stood a chance? The most likely outcome is all of them are dead and Thanos goes to Earth with an entirely different strategy (as he only has 4 stones at this point). My best guess is he tortures Stark/Parker until they give him vital information for defeating Thor/Vision/Wakanda. Or calls back his troops, regroups and starts destroying major cities with superior weaponry until Vision or Strange comes out of hiding.
- Say Strange slips away after the battle but before handing Thanos the Time Stone. Stark dies, the other Avengers die and Strange has mere minutes to find and convince Thor to aim for the head. Thanos probably still arrives on earth with a different strategy, knowing he only has 4 stones at this point (and therefore no Time Stone re-dos). So he would probably still call back his troops, and prepares for a more devastating attack. To which they still lose to his superior power. Maybe he takes Stark prisoner, tortures him to find out Thor's weakness, finds Jane Foster and holds her hostage.
- Say Strange slips away immediately after handing Thanos the Time stone. Strange has mere seconds to convince Thor to go for the head. This time without the help of the time stone. He fails catastrophically, everyone dies.


It's one thing to say this is a matter of lazy or incompetent writing. But why on earth question the in-universe logic that was developed? Strange saw MILLIONS of scenarios where they lose. To look for more would have been illogical (given they were strapped for time) and to go with any other than the winning future would have been suicide.

 

[Stormborn]

It's one thing to say this is a matter of lazy or incompetent writing. But why on earth question the in-universe logic that was developed? Strange saw MILLIONS of scenarios where they lose. To look for more would have been illogical (given they were strapped for time) and to go with any other than the winning future would have been suicide.

Questioning the writing is exactly what I'm doing. I'm not saying Strange is a dishonest character, I'm saying the writers made him say something that's not remotely believable.

"Strange looked at 14m timelines and there was no other way" is a paper thin in universe explanation that's very inconsistent with how close the Avengers came to winning in Infinity War and how huge of an advantage 14 million retries would be.

I waited for Endgame to see if there was a "greater good" style reason why Strange wanted Thanos to have the stones (e.g. another threat) but there wasn't.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Questioning the writing is exactly what I'm doing. I'm not saying Strange is a dishonest character, I'm saying the writers made him say something that's not remotely believable.

"Strange looked at 14m timelines and there was no other way" is a paper thin in universe explanation that's very inconsistent with how close the Avengers came to winning in Infinity War and how huge of an advantage 14 million retries would be.

I waited for Endgame to see if there was a "greater good" style reason why Strange wanted Thanos to have the stones (e.g. another threat) but there wasn't.

The greater good was to end with the life eradicated by the Mad Titan having been returned five years later.

 

[Random490]

My head-canon is that Strange can only see his future and only as long as the time stone exists. At her death the Ancient One said she had seen this moment countless times but no further. He can't see past his death or something he wasn't present for.

So most of those 14 million is Strange dying to protect the stone. Now when he dies it could mean Thanos doesn't necessarily succeed in getting all six but he'll still have at least 4 which is enough to still slaughter half the universe just at a much slower pace. But most importantly, Strange wouldn't know if he succeeded or not and he won't risk half of life without a guarantee of success.

He must willingly give the stone away, in front of Tony. Without the knowledge that Strange choose to hand it over The Ancient One would never had handed over the stone in the past.

And it has to come down to Tony snapping his fingers because the gantlet is damaged and cannot reshape to fit anyone other than the Hulk or Thanos. But Iron Man is the only one with nanotech armor to pull the stones off the gauntlet and form a new one on the fly.

The "1 in 14,000,605" is simply the one scenario that has a 100% guarantee. The whole universe survives, Thanos and his army dies, and the stones possess a threat no more.

Let's run through some alternate scenarios:
Thor goes for the head - Thanos only goes to Earth once he has the time stone, which means Doctor Strange must be dead and unable to see Thanos die thus has no idea if he was successful.

Captain Marvel gets the gauntlet through the quantum tunnel - The time stone no longer is present and Strange cannot see what happens next. Considering Thanos has already time traveled that doesn't mean they're safe.

Doctor Strange use a portal to cut off his arm or go for the head - Okay, that is a plot hole. You could say that it's difficult to time so there isn't a guarantee, but really, yeah...

Also remember a lot of those 14 million could just be slight variation with similar outcomes.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

Questioning the writing is exactly what I'm doing. I'm not saying Strange is a dishonest character, I'm saying the writers made him say something that's not remotely believable.

"Strange looked at 14m timelines and there was no other way" is a paper thin in universe explanation that's very inconsistent with how close the Avengers came to winning in Infinity War and how huge of an advantage 14 million retries would be.

I waited for Endgame to see if there was a "greater good" style reason why Strange wanted Thanos to have the stones (e.g. another threat) but there wasn't.

So, okay. I completely agree that would have been extremely interesting to see. Be that Adam Warlock, Kang, Galactus or some greater threat that Thanos usurped by destroying the stone and half of life in the Universe.

But buddy, we may still see that! That's whats so exciting. I love the idea that Thanos was some kind of twisted hero too. Or like, an anti-hero. Or anti-villain? Lol. But at least painting him in a shade of grey that still leaves you wondering after the un-snap. Was he right?

That's why I like lines like Cap's, "I saw a pod of whales when I was coming over the bridge. There's fewer ships, cleaner water."

Obviously Thanos made a positive change in this universe. And, if you're familiar with the Great Filter. I've always found it possible that Thanos was attempting to undercut the Great Filter for civilizations (such as his own) who cannibalize themselves before becoming truly self-sufficient on their own respective planets. Essentially providing all intelligent life an honest shot at approaching advanced civilization. Not just the ones who are cruel and merciless (like the Kree/Skrulls/Brood, etc.). Thanos is the balance to human morality, obviously no benevolent species is going to agree to the genocide of half their species. So most will die off and the galaxy will be lesser for it.

Anyway, that's how I kinda make my peace with how they approached Thanos in Endgame. Yes they kinda made him a more traditional baddie than some sort of anti-hero (as he was portrayed in IW) but there are reasons to still believe he may have been working toward the greater good.

 

[Xeno]

Maybe there was only one scenario in which Hero Rat plopped his plump butt on the Quantum Tunnel control panel and freed Scott Lang from the Quantum Realm. Ever think of that?

 

[Stormborn]

The greater good was to end with the life eradicated by the Mad Titan having been returned five years later.

How is that a greater good than preventing the snap in the first place?

If Strange had used his foresight to prevent Quill from screwing up the plan on Titan then

• Vision, Widow and Tony wouldn't have to die.
• The snap survivors wouldn't have to go through the trauma of losing loved ones and spending five years in a post-apocalyptic world.
• The snap victims wouldn't have to struggle to rebuild their lives after not existing for five years (during which new people will have moved into their homes and taken over their jobs, their loved ones will have aged or died etc)

So, okay. I completely agree that would have been extremely interesting to see. Be that Adam Warlock, Kang, Galactus or some greater threat that Thanos usurped by destroying the stone and half of life in the Universe.
But buddy, we may still see that! That's whats so exciting.

I hope so and if there's a line from Strange in a future film that tells us the snap was necessary to weaken/delay a threat that would've destroyed earth then that'll be an awesome answer to the plot hole. I'm not confident the writers will do that though.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Nah dude or dudette... You missed the point when questioning how there was any greater good reason why Strange gave up the stone when THE ENTIRE STORY OF AEG IS THAT GREATER GOOD REASON.

Bolded for reasons of clarity.