Favorite villain from the old franchise

[ALP]

Never understood the point of making of characters just for the films when ones from the comics will do perfectly. Why make up Grissom when there's a plethora of mob bosses from the comics to use?

 

[El Payaso]

Never understood the point of making of characters just for the films when ones from the comics will do perfectly. Why make up Grissom when there's a plethora of mob bosses from the comics to use?

Well, why putting Carmine Falcone or Flass in a movie if you're going to depict them in a completely different way?

 

[dude stannis]

Catwoman is my all time favourite. I also have a soft spot for Mr. Freeze. Why? Because it would make for the greatest movie of all time:

vs.

 

[Comics N' Toons]

If they had done a serious "animated series origin" of Mr. Freeze where some corrupt bureaucrat had caused Nora's death and kept Ivy and Bane away and given Clooney and co. a better script, Batman&Robin could have been great! Clooney may have made an impressive Batman with better writing. C. O'donnel would have been better if he had acted as the cold, vengeful Robin just like he did in Batman Forever. Also, the Robin suit in Batman Forever was pretty good. They should have kept it.

 

[howl]

joker, no question. catwoman was gnarly too.
bane is one of my fave villains, and they f***ed his character completely in batman and robin.

 

[bonoferox]

1. Riddler (just because I loved the character)
2. Joker
3. Catowman
4. Penguin
5. Mr Freeze
6. Two-Face (my favorite Batman villain for how great of a character he is and BF just turned him into a joke)
7. Bane
8. Poison Ivy

 

[The Joker]

^^^^ You really thought Ivy was worse than Bane?

 

[El Payaso]

Well, it's not like I agree, but at the very least Ivy talked less. She was truly annoying.

 

[bonoferox]

Yeah just because her dialogue made her a little worse IMO. Bane had his terrible "one-word-one-liners" but it wasn't as annoying as anything written for Uma.

F**k you, Goldsman.

 

[The Joker]

Ok, I can understand that. Bane was less in your face than Ivy.

 

[Comics N' Toons]

I don't see why you guys argue. Those films (except for '89) weren't great.

Try watching Batman Returns... you'll see how it doesn't hold up very well.
Batman Forever was actually better than Returns in many respects.
Batman & Robin... well, they can't all be winners.

 

[El Payaso]

I don't see why you guys argue. Those films (except for '89) weren't great.

Try watching Batman Returns... you'll see how it doesn't hold up very well.

Actually it's very good. But not better than BR IMO.

Batman Forever was actually better than Returns in many respects.

Nipples are nipples.

But really, the action was better. Other than that...

 

[Mister H.]

Joker is the only villain in the old franchise that I could say I liked. I loved Batman '89 for a long time and thought Nicholson was the gold standard for the character. I was wrong, and was very excited when BB was released, as I knew Nolan was going to take a stab at the character and do something very fresh.

 

[Comics N' Toons]

Nicholson is the gold standard for the character. Ledger was very very good, but it wasn't the Joker to me. He was a thug/gangster in clown makeup. He was scary, and as far as the modern Joker is concerned he was great, but if you are old like me and grew up with a certain era, well... he wasn't anything like the Englehardt/Rogers Joker. He barely laughed.

But he had the best voice of any Joker.

 

[The Joker]

He barely laughed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgWf_vETKMQ

He laughed plenty.

 

[Comics N' Toons]

fair enough.

 

[RustyCage]

Nicholson is the gold standard for the character. Ledger was very very good, but it wasn't the Joker to me. He was a thug/gangster in clown makeup. He was scary, and as far as the modern Joker is concerned he was great, but if you are old like me and grew up with a certain era, well... he wasn't anything like the Englehardt/Rogers Joker. He barely laughed.

But he had the best voice of any Joker.

Actually, Nicholson's Jack Napier was quite literally a thug/gangster turned clown. Ledger's Joker, oppositely, was a force of anarchy, so he was never anyone's thug (as Jack was Grissom's ) and rather than being a gangster (Jack took Grissom's place), he just manipulated other gangsters/thugs and killed them. So yeah, you've got that one completely and utterly backwards.

And Ledger laughed a lot. He laughed nearly every time he was in a scene, often more than once. The entire interrogation scene was loaded with laughter. Rewatch the film.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgWf_vETKMQ

He laughed plenty.

The last one where he's dangling is still so powerful to me. It's just so.. real, for lack of a better word. I feel like the Joker is real during that laugh, like Heath tapped into something. Chills, seriously.

Heath Ledger + Hans Zimmer =

 

[The Joker]

Yeah, I love that last laugh, too. However guys lets not turn my thread into a villain vs villain thread mmmmkay

Btw, I'm surprised DeVito doesn't have nearly as much votes as Nicholson and Pfeiffer.

 

[RustyCage]

Btw, I'm surprised DeVito doesn't have nearly as much votes as Nicholson and Pfeiffer.

I think that may be because a number of people don't like what Tim Burton turned him into. Personally, at the time, I found it a lot more interesting than just another mob boss, but these days I appreciate both angles. DeVito wasn't my favorite villain of the older lot, but he played the part well and that version of the Penguin was interesting.

 

[Comics N' Toons]

Actually, Nicholson's Jack Napier was quite literally a thug/gangster turned clown. Ledger's Joker, oppositely, was a force of anarchy, so he was never anyone's thug (as Jack was Grissom's ) and rather than being a gangster (Jack took Grissom's place), he just manipulated other gangsters/thugs and killed them. So yeah, you've got that one completely and utterly backwards.

Jack was only a gangster because it was an origin story. 2. When adapting comics to films the studio/director/writer always takes certain liberties with the characters. It was never explained where Ledger came from or who he was. I bought him as an amalgamation of TKJ Joker and Batman #1 Joker. His portrayal was very nice and it fit the film... all I'm saying is, It wasn't Joker's 5 Way Revenge Joker or Laughing Fish Joker. i know, i know... I'm notorious for being a ****e to the 70's.

 

[El Payaso]

Actually, Nicholson's Jack Napier was quite literally a thug/gangster turned clown. Ledger's Joker, oppositely, was a force of anarchy,

Nicholson's Joker was also that.

He managed to get Gothamites to attend to their own death with only offering them money. He made a point quite close to what Ledger's Joker tried to prove: people are corruptible.

Much as Ledger's Joker, Nicholson's used the money just to 'send a message.' Instead of burning it, he threw it away so people could be corrupted right before he killed them.

The difference is that Ledger's Joker couldn't prove Gothamites were corrupt since no one on the ferries was able to push the button whereas Burton's Gothamites - knowing Joker had poisoned many people - went to his parade to get the money.

so he was never anyone's thug

We actually don't know that. We don't know who he was previously and how did he become the Joker.

His scars could as well have been made by a gangster.

and rather than being a gangster (Jack took Grissom's place), he just manipulated other gangsters/thugs and killed them.

Both Jokers manipulated and killed other gangsters.

 

[RustyCage]

Fair points in general, Payaso, but different aspects of each Joker were played up or down respectively. Jack was goon turned gangster (even if he was sort of an anarchist to some arguable degree), and Heath was pastless and obviously much more obsessed with chaos and dismantling society than just being top dog. The parade you mentioned was just to get Batman's attention, he had loads of money to give away and still be rich. Really not a good example of anarchy so much as simple zealotry.

Anyway, to respect Joker's wishes, I'm not going to perpetuate the argument any further than this post. We'll just have to move on.

 

[El Payaso]

The good thing about Ledger's Joker was that he had a solid ideology behind him. And very well explained.

And it was clear that Ledger's Joker was born to oppose and challenge Batman's stand.

 

[Daredevil]

Jack Nicholson as The Joker. Honorable mention goes to Mr Freeze because they tried to take his ice puns seriously and the result was absolute hilarity.

 

[Frankenmation]

Catwoman for me. I had my issues with Batman Returns but the Batman/Catwoman relationship was really well done, Keaton and Pfeiffer had such chemistry