Final Crisis: Revelations

He's a bit off on the "little supported it" statement, though. A lot supported it. Like basically the entire run supported it.

In any case...
Or there is more than one universe inside the main DC universe.
There is actually only one Source throughout all the multiverse, just as there was only one New Genesis and only one Apokolips; there is no "Darkseid of Earth-5," for instance. Similarly, the Presence has to be the same singular God across the DC Multiverse or else by definition He isn't the true God.
 
See, I've heard there is no Apokolips Earth-17 or whatever, and I've heard the same for Oa and the Gaurdians, and yet there are bundles of alternate Green Lanterns, most of them being Hal Jordan(s), so where are these power rings and batteries coming from?

And there hasn't been a single alternate version of any new god shown? No Mister Miracle-48 in the background somewhere?
 
Oh, and just took a leak and was thinking about Kingdom Come, and how they presented Ganthet, Zues, Highfather, and the Phantom Stranger as being higher beings. Now they also hinted at Spectre being on this level or even higher. Now this suggests that, being higher beings, they would be singular beings in the multiverse, seeing as how it's been stated 1 Oa, 1 New Genesis, etc.

Now, this would be fine and dandy except they showed an Earth-2 Spectre in the JSA annual. And not only that, but Kingdom Come is now supposidly Earth-22, meaning the Ganthet and co. they showed there were the Earth-22 counterparts.

It's was a long thought provoking pee.
 
There may be many versions of "Green Lantern" throughout the multiverse, but there should be only one Green Lantern Corps of Oa who wield their willpower-powered rings through the Central Power Battery. This has been true all through pre-Crisis and post-Crisis right up till IC. Look at all your alternate Green Lanterns of various Earths; they all have wildly different power origins, and none resemble the Earth-1/New Earth Oan origins. I don't know what the post-IC multiverse rules are (probably because DC themselves don't really know) but so far I haven't seen anything different.

And, no, there should not be any alternate versions of New Gods throughout the multiverse. This has always been the case, though I can't swear to the fact that no ignorant writer or another has never unwittingly broken that rule at some point.

I wouldn't call the Spectre or Ganthet singular beings at all, or even Zeus or the Stranger. There may have been a time where they were counted as significant enough to be so, but I wouldn't place much gravitas on it. These days Ganthet is just another Guardian, the Spectre just another character, etc.
 
Final Crisis: Revelations #2
Still loving it. Greg Rucka is the best writar evar and all that...on the other hand, I'm not as impressed by the introduction of the Radiant as I think I was supposed to be (although damn that's some pretty artwork). As far as I'm concerned, Jesus Christ is supposed to be God's spirit of mercy in the DCU continuity. By comparison this new character feels very MacGuffiin-ish and not at all steeped in the Spectre mythology. Yeah that's right, sister friend; you don't measure up to Jesus. :cmad:

But seriously, the idea of the Spectre punishing Renee for crimes that he is fully aware she didn't commit and God as he says is fully aware she didn't commit...that doesn't feel at all like the Spectre, not even the recent portrayals of him. The Spectre's edicts are absolute and impartial and harsh, but they're never undeserved. Were we supposed to take this as an indication that Cris as the Spectre is getting uncontrollable and unbalanced [yet again]? If that were the case, it seems that there should be some sort of indication of that from the text, but all that it leads us to believe is that this is sort of par for the course for the Spectre's doings and that Cris is just unbalanced from his own issues. Again, it feels like some sort of plot MacGuffin in order to get the Radiant to show up for her arbitrary reasons.

On the other other hand, the idea of making Vandal Savage into Cain? Pure badass awesome I can't believe how awesome this was. I'm pretty sure this goes against a ****ton of continuity as well -- not only Savage's but, hell, also probably the real DCU Cain's -- but it's just so genius that I don't care. Now it's possible that I'm misinterpreting the scene and Cain has just been reborn in Savage instead of being him all this time, but that's probably not the case; Cain being a spirit of some sort doesn' really jive with the mythology, and Savage seems to know exactly what's going on instead of being all surprised that bald people are showing up at his house and stabbing him with a glowing spear.

(8.1 out of 10)
 
Oh, and just took a leak and was thinking about Kingdom Come, and how they presented Ganthet, Zues, Highfather, and the Phantom Stranger as being higher beings. Now they also hinted at Spectre being on this level or even higher. Now this suggests that, being higher beings, they would be singular beings in the multiverse, seeing as how it's been stated 1 Oa, 1 New Genesis, etc.

Now, this would be fine and dandy except they showed an Earth-2 Spectre in the JSA annual. And not only that, but Kingdom Come is now supposidly Earth-22, meaning the Ganthet and co. they showed there were the Earth-22 counterparts.

It's was a long thought provoking pee.
Here are some thoughts provoked right back at you. The JSA Annual does seem to suggest that, at the very least, the Spectre has a different host for each universe, and may even be a separate entity for each universe. That would be a departure from who he was pre-COIE, but then, the Monitors themselves have changed a lot since the original Monitor, pre-COIE.

Secondly, the Kingdom Come story was back when we had no multiverse, only hypertime. Those characters were elevated to that status for much the same reason that the Monitors were later created in Brave New World and Countdown.

Thirdly, as I understand Morrison's characterization of the 52 multiverse from interviews at the time, the 52 are not actually the universes in which those Elseworlds stories took place. Earth-10 isn't actually where the Freedom Fighters once fought. Earth-5 isn't actually where Captain Marvel comes from. Earth-22 isn't actually where Kingdom Come happened. Essentially, those Elseworlds stories either exist in their own continuity, or exist as hypertimelines (which was the point of hypertime anyway.) This keeps those stories pristine, in a sense, untouched by mainline continuity.
 
I thought that the DCU had the Source and the Judeo-Christian-Islamic God as separate beings even though the Source created the god wave.
I don't even know that the Godwave is still in continuity. That crossover didn't do very well and wasn't very good.
 
If you have two beings both saying that they are the creators of everything in the universe and there is ample evidence to suggest that both of them are telling the truth, then conventional wisdom would say that they are in fact the same being. Cut away all the dogma and the technicalities and all the superficials, and you're left with the fact that both the Presence and the Source are the origin of all things in this universe and you simply cannot have two origins of all things.
The difference is that the DCU has, for a very long time (implicitly at times, explicitly at others), embraced and supported the idea that philosophy/theology issues are subjectively true/false. If it's true for you, then it's real. It often gets lazily cross-applied to magic, with magic being categorized as philosophical itself. But it's a real-world idea that DC has used effectively to sidestep questions like this: for example, the ancient Greek/Roman gods are less powerful because fewer people believe in them, etc. It's even been explicitly supported at times that different creation myths, different pantheons, and different general mythological structures are "true" for an individual if the individual believes in them.

I'm pretty sure Red Hulk could beat him, though.
Till the rematch a few issues later, anyway.

As far as I'm concerned, Jesus Christ is supposed to be God's spirit of mercy in the DCU continuity.
The Swamp Thing story that was supposed to establish that got ****canned. You and I can say that's the case as much as we like in our personal continuities, but I don't think it's established in canon.

By comparison this new character feels very MacGuffiin-ish and not at all steeped in the Spectre mythology
That might be the point. Obviously, this is no one familiar to the Spectre. He's missed out on her previous appearances.

On the other other hand, the idea of making Vandal Savage into Cain? Pure badass awesome I can't believe how awesome this was.
The forward thinker in me agrees. The crotchety old NoChangey McStopItPants is sad that there won't be any more Vandal Savage stories.

I'm pretty sure this goes against a ****ton of continuity as well -- not only Savage's but, hell, also probably the real DCU Cain's -- but it's just so genius that I don't care.
I don't know that DCU Cain has much continuity. The only Savage continuity I can think of being potentially violated is his continuity from Resurrection Man, but they aren't explicitly contradictory at all. As long as Rucka doesn't make his Cainitude the source of his immortality, the only discrepancies are minor, and could easily be repaired should DnA ever return to the Resurrection Man character.

There may be many versions of "Green Lantern" throughout the multiverse, but there should be only one Green Lantern Corps of Oa who wield their willpower-powered rings through the Central Power Battery. This has been true all through pre-Crisis and post-Crisis right up till IC.
Why would that necessarily be true, though? It's not like the Guardians have the Corps set up in other universes. They're clearly only a presence in the mainline Earth. So there's really no reason that there can't be Guardians for other Universes.
 
The difference is that the DCU has, for a very long time (implicitly at times, explicitly at others), embraced and supported the idea that philosophy/theology issues are subjectively true/false. If it's true for you, then it's real. It often gets lazily cross-applied to magic, with magic being categorized as philosophical itself. But it's a real-world idea that DC has used effectively to sidestep questions like this: for example, the ancient Greek/Roman gods are less powerful because fewer people believe in them, etc. It's even been explicitly supported at times that different creation myths, different pantheons, and different general mythological structures are "true" for an individual if the individual believes in them.
This is true between the pagan pantheons, yes, and it may be what they say is the case for all faiths, but the fact in practice is that the Abrahamic monotheist God has almost always been placed on a higher level of regard and credulence in the DCU, even from other pantheons and magic-users. In Vertigo, the very first thing Tim Hunter sees at the beginning of time is the war in Heaven. Not Olympus, not Asgard, but the war in Heaven between angels. And the current Reign in Hell is not happening in Hades, or in King Yama's realm, or in Hel, but in the Hell of the Bible filled with Biblical demons quoting Bible passages.

And the idea that the DCU gods literally gain power from belief is a bit misleading. That is the case on the surface, but the real crux isn't whether people still believe in them, it's whether they -- and their sphere of influence -- can stay relevant to people. No one cares who Ares is, but war is the biggest deal on the planet, and so he's became the single most powerful Olympian, followed much later by Athena and Aphrodite. The Japanese gods in Vertigo are no more worshipped today than any other old religion but have managed to evolve and change with the times and have therefore retained a lot of their power.

The Swamp Thing story that was supposed to establish that got ****canned. You and I can say that's the case as much as we like in our personal continuities, but I don't think it's established in canon.
I'm talking about the Ostrander Spectre which stated that Jesus was God's spirit of mercy on Earth, and the Spectre was in limbo while Jesus lived because the spirit of wrath and mercy couldn't coexist at the same time, and that ever since then the Spectre had to be bound to a human host to function.

Why would that necessarily be true, though? It's not like the Guardians have the Corps set up in other universes. They're clearly only a presence in the mainline Earth. So there's really no reason that there can't be Guardians for other Universes.
Don't ask me, ask whoever designed the multiverse back then. *shrug* The rule is that there was and should always be only one Oa. It has something to do with the fact that an Oan, Krona, was the one who originally looked back in time and shattered the universe into a multiverse in the first place.
 
I wonder if anyone remembers The Word from Swamp Thing. . .

As far as Radiant goes. . . well, perhaps some explanation may perhaps come up later to reconcile her and Jesus. . .

But with DC as it is now? I'd be surprise if they address Ostrander's run.
 
The forward thinker in me agrees. The crotchety old NoChangey McStopItPants is sad that there won't be any more Vandal Savage stories.

Yeah, but when's the last time he's been a central character in a DC book?
 

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