Iron Fist Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

[TheVileOne]

I thought Marvel are normally the ones to make the announcements for these Netflix series. Wasn't that the case with DD, JJ and Luke Cage?

Usually they like to be the ones to make the announcements, but it seems some other outlets managed to get the word out first.

Just saying, those outlets are not clickbait fansites. They have good track records.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

If things weren't how they are, it would indeed kind of be interesting to see Danny Rand be a third or fourth generation asian-american, thrust back into his ancestral home he no longer has any ties to. But in this regard he could be black, latino, native american or jewish. It truly would not matter.

Because i'd say its a defining trait of Danny's origin to be a fish out of water. But that doesnt mean he has to be white. He has just been historically white.

 

[chamber-music]

This was always going to be a lose/lose situation for Marvel. the character is great but at the same time very problematic.

My main issue has always been that tiresome trope of a white dude going into another culture, submerging himself in it, and somehow emerging as the best that culture has to offer. Its the same reason why The Last Samurai was such a face-palmer for a lot of people despite the movie being pretty solid.

In the comics Danny became really good at marital arts because he was motivated to get revenge on Harold Meacham for his parents deaths. Danny pushed himself harder than everyone else which is why he got so good. It was never that he was simply better because he was white.

It also worth remembering that he is only one of the seven Immortal weapons.

It's not like the opposite isn't true in Asia. As someone who's watched a lot of Asian films and dramas it isn't uncommon for someone to go train or study in America and come back as the greatest doctor/agent/detective/whatever. There are two Asians on the main cast of AoS. And Iron fist is definitely going to add some more.
If you really want to avoid tropes you should have asked for a Latino actor. Then we could have the Latino savior. Better yet make him Chamorro. Has there ever been a Chamorro comic book character? No and you don't hear me ****ing.

A western immersing themselves in Asian culture and becoming extremely skilled isn't even a unusual concept in really life.

Look at Steven Seagal.

Seagal started learning aikido under master Harry Kiyoshi Ishisaka as a kid. At 19 he moved to Japan continued training under various masters and became a master (dan) in aikido. Seagal became first foreigner to operate an aikido dojo in Japan.

 

[Monochron]

What if a white actor is represented as more than just a kung-fu expert and "mighty whitey?"

The mighty whitey trope is still the fundamental problem. It can't be eliminated if the main lead is white.

It's the same problem as in films like The Last Samurai and The Last of the Mohicans.

 

[MadVillainy]

I'd have more of a problem with the Mighty Whitey trope if it wasn't the source material. I mean if you have a problem with it in the comics as well as the show then okay.

But getting mad at the casting because of the trope is silly especially considering that you shouldve seen it coming.

 

[TheVileOne]

The mighty whitey trope is still the fundamental problem. It can't be eliminated if the main lead is white.

It's the same problem as in films like The Last Samurai and The Last of the Mohicans.

Except this is an actual Marvel comic hero. And this the source material has always had Danny Rand as a white character.

Thorson, when you get right down to it, there's no reason the likes of Doctor Strange and Daredevil and Ant-Man couldn't be a minority or Asian American either and yet no one says anything when these roles are cast.

 

[TheVileOne]

I'd have more of a problem with the Mighty Whitey trope if it wasn't the source material. I mean if you have a problem with it in the comics as well as the show then okay.

But getting mad at the casting because of the trope is silly especially considering that you shouldve seen it coming

Doesn't the fact that Iron Fist has a relationship with Luke Cage or that they will depict that means they could address these issues head on?

 

[MadVillainy]

Doesn't the fact that Iron Fist has a relationship with Luke Cage or that they will depict that means they could address these issues head on?

I mean I guess. I dont know why you're quoting/asking me. I dont know or care because the "mighty whitey" thing doesnt bother me in this scenario

 

[Monochron]

Except this is an actual Marvel comic hero. And this the source material has always had Danny Rand as a white character.

Yes and sadly from its very start it was a fundamentally problematic concept.

Thorson, when you get right down to it, there's no reason the likes of Doctor Strange and Daredevil and Ant-Man couldn't be a minority or Asian American either and yet no one says anything when these roles are cast.

The story of Ant-Man and Daredevil are not examples of the trope we are discussing. With Dr. Strange there is an argument to be made but nowhere near as strong as with Iron Fist.

 

[Stark Bauer]

Finn Jones reaction to the Internet also applies to Iron Fist casting

[YT]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvoRkiEW1WY&app=desktop[/YT]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvoRkiEW1WY&app=desktop

 

[SuperT]

Thorson, when you get right down to it, there's no reason the likes of Doctor Strange and Daredevil and Ant-Man couldn't be a minority or Asian American either and yet no one says anything when these roles are cast.

I wasn't paying much attention to the Daredevil and Ant-Man casting but yes - both of those characters could have easily been any other race and I would have had no problem with it.

I do remember there was A LOT of talk though around the Doctor Strange casting and there was a long, diverse group of actors people were suggesting. When Cumberbatch was cast, it was a big of a letdown.

 

[Dasher10]

Glad that Iron Fist was cast. Hoping to see more casting news soon.

Anyway, I hope that Tony Jaa is Steel Serpent, Maggie Q is Colleen Wing and we get some old Hong Kong martial arts actors for Thunderer and Professor Wing.

 

[Lencho01]

Alright.

I was actually expecting the chosen actor to be older based on Mike Colter.

 

[Dark Raven]

How old is Jones?

There was really no other American actor who could play the part that they had to go for another Brit?

 

[Web-Head]

How old is Jones?

There was really no other American actor who could play the part that they had to go for another Brit?

27, but he turns 28 next month

 

[MadVillainy]

Does it really matter if he's British or not?

If the boy can act I dont have a problem.

 

[chamber-music]

How old is Jones?

There was really no other American actor who could play the part that they had to go for another Brit?

Maybe Jones was awesome in his audition and had the best chemistry with Colter.

I don't think nationality matters. Charlie Cox is a Brit and a good Daredevil.

Alright.

I was actually expecting the chosen actor to be older based on Mike Colter.

Danny is younger than Luke in the comics and I imagine the show will deal with him returning to New York after years in k'un lun so I expected him to be younger.

Colter doesn't look his age either.

 

[Protar]

Kinda like Luke a farm boy from in his isolated world becoming the best jedi of the galaxy.
Or Agent J, a nobody, becoming the hero in the Men in Black instead of all the trained agent.
Or the anime, MÄR where a japanese boy is going to another world and become the hero from there.

It's just being the main character, being a nobody in his world becoming a hero in another place he just discovered,this story is everywhere and they don't become hero because of their race.

That's a very naive stance. If these stories are just about the protagonist discovering themselves, why not allow them to be minority characters coming into their own within their own culture rather than making it about a white guy being better at another race's traditions?

Now I'm not saying I'm furious that they've cast a white person as Iron Fist. He is white in the comics and I like Finn Jones, I think he's one of GoT's most underutilised cast members imo. I haven't been happy with the direction they took his character in later seasons so seeing him get his own TV is great.

But that said, I also would have liked to see them rectifying the problematic tropes that Ironfist represents. So I'm a little disappointed but at the same time happy that an actor I like got the part.

 

[Pokkle]

That's a very naive stance. If these stories are just about the protagonist discovering themselves, why not allow them to be minority characters coming into their own within their own culture rather than making it about a white guy being better at another race's traditions?

Now I'm not saying I'm furious that they've cast a white person as Iron Fist. He is white in the comics and I like Finn Jones, I think he's one of GoT's most underutilised cast members imo. I haven't been happy with the direction they took his character in later seasons so seeing him get his own TV is great.

But that said, I also would have liked to see them rectifying the problematic tropes that Ironfist represents. So I'm a little disappointed but at the same time happy that an actor I like got the part.

It isn't limited to white guy.
The Karate Kid remake was about an black kid.
From zero to hero, the main character win, there is the same story everywhere and in every color.

And american movie and show are way more diverse than Asian drama and anime (I love anime though)

 

[TheVileOne]

Yes and sadly from its very start it was a fundamentally problematic concept.



The story of Ant-Man and Daredevil are not examples of the trope we are discussing. With Dr. Strange there is an argument to be made but nowhere near as strong as with Iron Fist.

That argument makes no sense.

 

[Monochron]

That argument makes no sense.

In what way?

 

[Pokkle]

That argument makes no sense.

Clearly.

Daredevil case is very similar to Iron Fist.
Nobu clearly said to Daredevil that the old man train him in "their ways", and Daredevil beat him.
(And DD win not because he was a white guy anyways.)

 

[TheVileOne]

In what way?

More white superheroes saving the day. Doctor Strange goes to train and learn the magical arts in Asia too.

 

[Protar]

It isn't limited to white guy.
The Karate Kid remake was about an black kid.
From zero to hero, the main character win, there is the same story everywhere and in every color.

And american movie and show are way more diverse than Asian drama and anime (I love anime though)

You're conflating two separate tropes. Zero to hero, that's everywhere, no problem with that trope. The trope people have a problem with is when a writer wants to draw upon a foreign culture because it's cool and mystical and exotic, but they still choose a white lead because....well because erasure, appropariation, white-defaultness, and orientalism.

Now I can understand that Marvel was in a bit of bind here because asian kung fu master is also a racial trope. But imo it is the lesser of two evils because that trope is lessened greatly if the character is fleshed out outside of that. Plus just getting some more diversity would be better.

ETA: And also, good point I saw on another site is that the show will doubtless have the asian martial arts master trope anyway. Only more likely to fall into stereotyping because the asian martial arts masters will be secondary characters instead of the lead.

 

[Monochron]

More white superheroes saving the day.

You are oversimplifying the 'Mighty Whitey' trope. It's not simply about white superheroes saving the day, Iron Fist is like if the story of Black Panther were about a white guy going to Wakanda who becomes their best warrior and is deemed worthy by the Panther God to be the Black Panther.

Neither Ant-Man nor Daredevil do anything like that.

Doctor Strange goes to train and learn the magical arts in Asia too.

Yes that's why I implied there is an argument to be made about the trope applying to Dr. Strange as well.