Follow up to Under the Hood?

[Laber79]

I just finished reading the Under the hood 1 & 2 Story arc and really dug it, Jason Todd reminded me of Garth Ennis's Punisher just a badass criminal killing machine especially the rocket launcher scene but I was a little confused on how Superman played into bringing Jason back to life and which graphic novel comes after this?

 

[Joker]

The last issue of that ends with the big Infinite Crisis thing right? with the universe exploding?

 

[Laber79]

Yep, Bludhaven gets blown away and thats where it ends, is there a graphic novel thats follows that?

 

[Joker]

nah, it went to One Year Later...Jason Todd popped up in the Nightwing One Year Later arc, impersonating Dick...but other than that interesting concept, the story was terrible (for example, they turned Jason into a giant gelatinous blob near the end)...Jasons next appearance was in 52 as one of the Challengers (with Donna Troy, Bob the Moniter, and Kyle Rayner), where he can still be seen today...

It looks as though he may become...

Spoiler

Red Robin, as the latest issue of 52 showed him in the company of a Batman who's version of Jason was Red Robin

 

[RobC]

Yeah didn't Under The Hood basically lead into Crisis?

It's kinda hard to follow the Crisis('s) if you're a TPB reader and not a comic reader. I very rarely pick up actual comics, I prefer TPB's, so i'm way out of line with everything that's happened with 52 and Crisis and stuff.

 

[Joker]

So are most of the people who read the comic...it was confusing, and not very good. Which is most likely why DC are already doing another f**king crisis to fix the problems Infinite Crisis made.

 

[RobC]

Man, why do they need that? Just accept the errors and move on, i'm sure the fans would prefer that over *another* Crisis...

 

[Joker]

At this point I dont even care...there new idea will probably be something like making the reverse gender world the world that all the comics focus on, or something equally terrible. I mean, there big solution with Infinite Crisis seemed to be "Hey, remember the Silver Age? Wasnt that great? Let's do that again, including having stupid puns on every single cover, and terrible over the top stories!"

 

[Doctor Baywatch]

"Hey, remember the Silver Age? Wasnt that great? Let's do that again, including having stupid puns on every single cover, and terrible over the top stories!"

that would rock

But it's not the Silver Age that must return, it's the Bronze Age. Don't fear what ya do not know.

 

[RobC]

Agreed, DC should stick with what they do best, i'm talking Death Of Superman, Year One, Hush etc... Good stories, good art, making the characters worth something again.

None of this stupid 'oh everytime you spot a mistake that takes place on a different planet' that's just stupid.

 

[Joker]

that would rock

But it's not the Silver Age that must return, it's the Bronze Age. Don't fear what ya do not know.

It's what they did with Infinite Crisis already...You have evil mad scientist Lex Luthor, Superman who's just so incredibly over powered that it's ridiculous, Batman who cracks jokes constantly, etc.

 

[Doctor Baywatch]

It's what they did with Infinite Crisis already...You have evil mad scientist Lex Luthor, Superman who's just so incredibly over powered that it's ridiculous, Batman who cracks jokes constantly, etc.

Yeah. That's good

 

[RobC]

Really? I mean, I pretty much like the modern Hush/Under The Hood/Face The Face type Batman, the no nonsense kicking ass and taking names. But with a mix of family love thrown in for good measure...

 

[Doctor Baywatch]

Really? I mean, I pretty much like the modern Hush/Under The Hood/Face The Face type Batman, the no nonsense kicking ass and taking names. But with a mix of family love thrown in for good measure...

it's all about balance.

Why can't Batman have some serious stories against realistic threats and then a few not-so-serious? And people who don't like these stories should not buy it. I don't see why some people feel like Batman get "stains" when he is a written in a lighter way.

I mean, at the moment, I am happy. There are Dini's gritty detective stories and on the other half Morrison's fantasy adventures. Why not keep it that way. "Batman" for the superhero-ic stories & "Detective Comics" for the more realistic?

 

[RobC]

Exactly, I agree, I prefer Dinni's work, but that doesn't mean i'm not gonna buy the Joker's origin in TPB, same way that I got TKJ and Hush you know?

It doesn't bother me, what does bother me is DC's almost obsessive need to have a Crisis every time a fanboy spots a mistake, we all know they're comics, so why do we need to have a revamp everytime they make a continuity error?

IMO it's stupid to have a fantasy event to try and make the comics seem more real? Like, the whole upshot of the Crisis's is to make put the comics in line with continuity, which is a real-world thing, but to achieve that they're gonna have this massive inter-planetary ****-fest...

 

[Joker]

it's all about balance.

Why can't Batman have some serious stories against realistic threats and then a few not-so-serious? And people who don't like these stories should not buy it. I don't see why some people feel like Batman get "stains" when he is a written in a lighter way.

I mean, at the moment, I am happy. There are Dini's gritty detective stories and on the other half Morrison's fantasy adventures. Why not keep it that way. "Batman" for the superhero-ic stories & "Detective Comics" for the more realistic?

I'm not talking about the threats though. I'm talking about Batman himself being happy, and jokey. That's not the character, and it sucks. The entire Silver Age sucked. It was poor storytelling and bad characterization, and was terrible, and it needs to go back where it came from and stay there this time.

 

[Doctor Baywatch]

Exactly, I agree, I prefer Dinni's work, but that doesn't mean i'm not gonna buy the Joker's origin in TPB, same way that I got TKJ and Hush you know?

It doesn't bother me, what does bother me is DC's almost obsessive need to have a Crisis every time a fanboy spots a mistake, we all know they're comics, so why do we need to have a revamp everytime they make a continuity error?

IMO it's stupid to have a fantasy event to try and make the comics seem more real? Like, the whole upshot of the Crisis's is to make put the comics in line with continuity, which is a real-world thing, but to achieve that they're gonna have this massive inter-planetary ****-fest...

The problem is basically that there are a lot of writers. And one person cannot know everything in the DC universe. So, yeah, people who spot things and say "Hey, quote x by character y violates what happend in issue z in the year a". Even in fiction when just one person writes it there are errors. When they are big then it's bad. But if not, well, ignore it.

The same goes for things when people point out that, Batman, for example, fights a big alien sorcerer who turns him into a pig with the Justice League and then fights a brutal murderer in his own stories can't be the same person. Well, I say, why not? If you don't like it, ignore it.

As you have said, this is not the real world, nor is Batman a giant daily soap TV show or even a great epic saga. It's basically a fictional character thrown into certain stories.

 

[RobC]

I agree, the first Crisis I understand, it was needed, it cleaned up the entire universe and sorted a lot of problems, the ongoing ones are just stupid and un-needed.

I mean, just accept that there are hundreds of different Batman interpretations out there, and if needs be, only read the ones that you yourself enjoy. Sure the Silver Age was campy, but at the time it was probably seen as brilliant, and I have no doubt that in another forty years we'll look back at this current 'gritty' Batman and think 'wow, they got that wrong' and so on...

 

[Doctor Baywatch]

I agree, the first Crisis I understand, it was needed, it cleaned up the entire universe and sorted a lot of problems, the ongoing ones are just stupid and un-needed.

I can't even say if the first crisis was good or bad thing. I love the many different worlds, but they totally exaggerated it. And I don't like the "new Superman" that came after the crisis, but I totally love Perez' "Wonder Woman". The problem was and is that after they "strealined" their universe they re-introduced so many things from the old continuity. Now we had the Justice Society operating long before Superman first appeared, we had two(!) Black Canary's, five Green Lanterns (or so), we still had the Legion of the Superheroes, even when the non-existance of Superboy made them kind of redundant. It just became more and more confusing. They should have made a clear cut or simply made a completely new earth from the scratch.

I mean, just accept that there are hundreds of different Batman interpretations out there, and if needs be, only read the ones that you yourself enjoy. Sure the Silver Age was campy, but at the time it was probably seen as brilliant, and I have no doubt that in another forty years we'll look back at this current 'gritty' Batman and think 'wow, they got that wrong' and so on...

That is how I see it, too. I don't understand why so many people totally loathe those "silver age elements"( "Oh nooo! Batmite! Please nooo!" and such reactions. )

To your last sentence: yes, I think in a few decades people will see those uber-dark stories as "stupid". But that's just how the things go. Well, I guess some people would even call this "campy" these days

"What a silly design!"

 

[RobC]

Exactly, I mean the silver foil does nothing for the ergonomics and the antenae, well...

Oh wait, you sarcastic little scamp

I agree, when they re-did the DC Universe they should have cut the crap and got to the point, the new Superman was ok, agree with Wonder Woman, and well, obviously Year One as an opus for Batman in terms of story-telling.

 

[Joker]

Some big stuff went down with Countdown this week, as far as Jason Todd is concerned...

 

[RobC]

Care to elaborate my friend?

 

[Joker]

Spoiler

A few issues ago he, along with Donna Troy and Kyle Rayner, ended up on earth 51, which was a "perfect" earth. It was, in reality, only perfect because when that universes Jason Todd got killed, Batman snapped and just killed every supervillain. So some s**t went down, and Jason ended up captured by this universes Batman. After they sorted things out, he suited up in that universes Jasons outfit...Red Robin. So, we now have our answer as to who Red Robin is, and it is, in fact, Jason, as was speculated.

 

[MALFUNCTION]

y'know, most of these continuity issues would work them selves out over time if, like most companies with a production schedule, the writers of all the titles would have monthly or quarterly meetings with eachother and go over their ideas. They could point out discrepancies and make adjustments. But that would mean they would all have to write 6-12 months in advance and actually keep a 'universe bible' going like alot of serialized TV shows do.
In the comic book biz this is crazy talk. So istead they do these half-azzed Crisis fix alls that actually make everything worse.

 

[RobC]

Huh, sounds crazy! So now he's back in the standard universe? Hopefully. I agree with the above poster, if DC got its act together the need for multiple Crisis' would be averted.