General Arrowverse Discussion

[Rorschach2012]

I feel like we've needed a place for us to discuss the Arrowverse in general for a while. We have individual discussions for the different shows, but here we can talk about characters we would like to be introduced into the Arrowverse, the crossover events, and the general direction we would like this universe to go in.

I personally think the film side should give the Arrowverse more free reign to do what they want to do, as they have arguably been more successful with their adaptations of DC characters than the DCEU.

Once Flash and Arrow have run their course, I would love to see a CW Justice League series. Hopefully now that Cavill is out, WB will allow the CW to utilize the fantastic Tyler Hoechlin as Superman a bit more.

Also, it's about time for them to utilize the Green Lantern Corps. It's long overdue.

 

[Rodimus]

I feel like we've needed a place for us to discuss the Arrowverse in general for a while. We have individual discussions for the different shows, but here we can talk about characters we would like to be introduced into the Arrowverse, the crossover events, and the general direction we would like this universe to go in.

I personally think the film side should give the Arrowverse more free reign to do what they want to do, as they have arguably been more successful with their adaptations of DC characters than the DCEU.

Once Flash and Arrow have run their course, I would love to see a CW Justice League series. Hopefully now that Cavill is out, WB will allow the CW to utilize the fantastic Tyler Hoechlin as Superman a bit more.

Also, it's about time for them to utilize the Green Lantern Corps. It's long overdue.

I agree with this in general mate, one thing though. If they do have a weak point it's probably the tight budgets, so given that do you think they could do the Green Lantern Corps any justice?

 

[FunkMiller]

Totally agree on them being allowed more free reign to use whatever DC characters they so desire. I have no issue with more Superman and the introduction of a Batman to the Arrowverse (though bringing Bruce in massively and immediately overshadows Ollie, which could be an issue).

For all of the Arrowverse show’s faults - the soap opera bull****, or the poor writing on some episodes - it’s still done a far, far better job of representing DC characters than the DCEU has.

I’d personally like to see them introduce more lesser known characters like Blue Beetle or Booster Gold. Both could be a lot of fun.

Green Lantern might be a bit beyond their budget, unfortunately. It’s a shame CW can’t throw as much money at these shows as Netflix can at their Marvel product. The Arrowverse really would be something quite spectacular if they could.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Thanks for creating this. I've been in a quandary sometimes over where to post general Arrowverse questions that don't relate specifically to any one show.

 

[2kt09]

I’d personally like to see them introduce more lesser known characters like Blue Beetle or Booster Gold. Both could be a lot of fun.

Green Lantern might be a bit beyond their budget, unfortunately. It’s a shame CW can’t throw as much money at these shows as Netflix can at their Marvel product. The Arrowverse really would be something quite spectacular if they could.

We could have gotten a live-action GL show, but they opted for a Krypton prequel, yes I know not Flarrowverse-related. It almost seems everything live-action DC has to be a reaction to some other adaptation and that's especially the case with the Flarrowverse. Notable exceptions being the tie-in webtoons - Vixen & The Ray.
So...that's where the DCU comes in.

Also, apparently they're eyeing a Hoechlin Superman show.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Also, apparently they're eyeing a Hoechlin Superman show.

Yes, this is the link that Mightiest Mortal posted on the SUPERMAN SOLO MOVIE NEWS AND SPECULATION thread for anyone who hasn't seen it.

EXCLUSIVE: WB Developing 'Superman' TV Series

 

[Rorschach2012]

It’s a shame that the seasons have to go on for 23 episodes. Some of the shows suffer from this. I do think they could pull off Green Lantern on tv, it may be best to relegate the character to small appearances on other shows though.

Yes, this is the link that Mightiest Mortal posted on the SUPERMAN SOLO MOVIE NEWS AND SPECULATION thread for anyone who hasn't seen it.

EXCLUSIVE: WB Developing 'Superman' TV Series

Hell yeah, I hope it happens. Hoechlin is much better as Superman than Cavill ever was, and he totally deserves his own series. I’ve wanted this for a while!

 

[Flash525]

It’s a shame that the seasons have to go on for 23 episodes. Some of the shows suffer from this. I do think they could pull off Green Lantern on tv, it may be best to relegate the character to small appearances on other shows though.

IIRC, Legends started off with a 12 or 13 episode run. If the network could get a 22/23 episode budget for a GL show, but only say ... 15 episodes per season, it could work?

 

[FunkMiller]

Yes, this is the link that Mightiest Mortal posted on the SUPERMAN SOLO MOVIE NEWS AND SPECULATION thread for anyone who hasn't seen it.

EXCLUSIVE: WB Developing 'Superman' TV Series

Great news.

And what the hell do WB do if the next few DCEU films bomb, and a series with Hoechlin comes out and is a huge success?

 

[Rorschach2012]

The only truly successful Superman movies were the first two. They have had much better luck with Superman tv shows over the years.

 

[kguillou]

I'm definitely down for a Superman series. Although I think the challenge they'll have is presenting enough of a distinctive difference from Supergirl's show because, lets be honest, Supergirl is acting as the Arrowverse's de-facto "Superman." I think a Superman show risks overshadowing hers. I'm all for it though.

Also, for the Arrowverse overall, I really like what theyve been doing with these crossovers and love how each year they're more and more ambitious. Since JL s*** the bed and we're not seeing the team on the big screen anytime soon would you guys be opposed to a big crossover event with Darkseid and Apokolips? Before you scoff at the idea I think they'd do it justice. I'm continually super impressed at how these shows utilize their visual effects budgets and they seem to be getting better and better at it. I think in a year or two they'd be able to render Darkseid in a cool way and have Green Arrow and co. go up against him and his forces in an epic 4 night event. What do y'all think?

 

[Rorschach2012]

It would be a shame if the Arrowverse is forbidden from using Darkseid and Apokolips. I really want to see their take on those characters, and definitely think they could do it right.

They’re introducing the freakin’ Monitor. These crazy bastards are going to attempt Crisis on Infinite Earths! They’ve been setting it up since 2014. This is clearly the superior live action DC universe. I vastly prefer Gustin and Hoechlin to Miller and Cavill. It’s not about budget, it’s about ambition and adherence to the source material.

Berlanti has proven himself a true fan of the source material, his original Green Lantern script was fantastic! I really hope they give the guy another chance to take on that character. I’d rather see a GL tv series than a movie series anyways. Sure they wouldn’t have the same budget as Star Trek Beyond, but that show proves GL could be done on tv.

 

[FunkMiller]

They’re introducing the freakin’ Monitor. These crazy bastards are going to attempt Crisis on Infinite Earths! They’ve been setting it up since 2014. This is clearly the superior live action DC universe. I vastly prefer Gustin and Hoechlin to Miller and Cavill. It’s not about budget, it’s about ambition and adherence to the source material.

Berlanti has proven himself a true fan of the source material, his original Green Lantern script was fantastic! I really hope they give the guy another chance to take on that character. I’d rather see a GL tv series than a movie series anyways. Sure they wouldn’t have the same budget as Star Trek Beyond, but that show proves GL could be done on tv.

Hand the entire live action DC cinematic and TV universe over to Berlanti. He clearly has a far better understanding of the DC multiverse than the film people if he’s bringing The Monitor in.

He can’t possibly do any worse than what we’ve had to put up with so far, and could well do so much better.

 

[Boy Scout]

Big no to that. Lame effects, melodrama, and overall ****ty writing aren’t what I want from any incarnation of my favorite comic book universe. Just because the movies are ****ing up doesn’t mean that the Arrowverse is particularly good on its own merits. I’d rather not see any of my favorite characters for a while if my only options are the bumbling fools in the movie division or Greg Berlanti.

 

[FunkMiller]

Big no to that. Lame effects, melodrama, and overall ****ty writing aren’t what I want from any incarnation of my favorite comic book universe. Just because the movies are ****ing up doesn’t mean that the Arrowverse is particularly good on its own merits. I’d rather not see any of my favorite characters for a while if my only options are the bumbling fools in the movie division or Greg Berlanti.

The thing is though, the Arrowverse is immensely popular. I have a lot of issues with it myself, but I can’t deny that it’s working extremely well, with a broad audience.

And give Berlanti bigger budgets and access to the best expertise in Hollywood, and who knows what he might be able to do?

I don’t see anyone else better suited to running the whole thing right now, and with the rumoured storyline and characters for the Elseworlds crossover, Berlanti clearly has a handle on the broader DC comics narrative.

Seriously, who else is there that’s even a consideration?

DC desperately needs someone creatively fully in charge, like Feige. If you can think of anyone better than Berlanti, then please say!

 

[Boy Scout]

The thing is though, the Arrowverse is immensely popular. I have a lot of issues with it myself, but I can’t deny that it’s working extremely well, with a broad audience.

I don’t disagree. But popular doesn’t mean good.

And give Berlanti bigger budgets and access to the best expertise in Hollywood, and who knows what he might be able to do?

Probably not much better. He got a bigger budget and more freedom for Titans and most people think the show is unnecessarily violent and grim so far.

I don’t see anyone else better suited to running the whole thing right now, and with the rumoured storyline and characters for the Elseworlds crossover, Berlanti clearly has a handle on the broader DC comics narrative.

That doesn’t mean that person doesn’t exist. Who saw Kevin Feige coming before IM?

Seriously, who else is there that’s even a consideration?

Bruce Timm and his team. Jonah Nolan. A combination of Patty Jenkins, James Wan, and Walter Hamada (with room for more; I actually like the idea of a “Brain Trust” more than one single person being in charge of everything).

And probably others I’d be interested in seeing steering the ship.

Point is, we don’t need to scrape the layer above the bottom of the barrel to get good content.

 

[Rorschach2012]

I don’t disagree. But popular doesn’t mean good.

Says you!

Probably not much better. He got a bigger budget and more freedom for Titans and most people think the show is unnecessarily violent and grim so far.

Titans is actually great. It was let down by a poor marketing campaign. Also, Geoff Johns and Akiva Goldsman are the primary creative forces behind that show.

Bruce Timm and his team. Jonah Nolan. A combination of Patty Henkins, James Wan, and Walter Hamada (with room for more; I actually like the idea of a “Brain Trust” more than one single person being in charge of everything).

Yeah, Timm and Dini should've been running the DCEU from the beginning. I dunno about the others yet, it seems hasty to suggest Wan and Hamada.

Point is, we don’t need to scrape the layer above the bottom of the barrel to get good content.

I, and many others, genuinely enjoy the Arrowverse. It's fun and it adheres pretty closely to the comic books. I think the highs of the Arrowverse more than make up for the lows, and it's nice to get pretty consistent DC content so regularly. I love it as a fan. It's a far cry from the days where we used to have to wait 4 years between DC movies, and Smallville was the only DC show. It's weird to see a DC fan hating so hard on something that is pretty inoffensive in its adaptation of the source material. It's a tv show, and it has limitations such as a high episode count and a lower budget than a movie, but it's pretty ****ing admirable how well they have adapted the DC universe considering those limitations. The DCEU has none of those limitations and they've shown a clear lack of respect for the source material, and consistently churned out bad products.

I genuinely think the Arrowverse is better than the DCEU overall, and it boils down to the way each universe handled two characters: The Flash and Superman. I bet they'd do a better job with Batman too. Affleck's characterization and performance left a lot to be desired.

 

[Snow Queen]

Big no to that. Lame effects, melodrama, and overall ****ty writing aren’t what I want from any incarnation of my favorite comic book universe. Just because the movies are ****ing up doesn’t mean that the Arrowverse is particularly good on its own merits. I’d rather not see any of my favorite characters for a while if my only options are the bumbling fools in the movie division or Greg Berlanti.

Why get someone good when you can just get another kind of bad?

 

[Boy Scout]

Says you!

Indeed.

Titans is actually great.

I doubt that. But I will keep an eye on it to see if it improves.

It was let down by a poor marketing campaign. Also, Geoff Johns and Akiva Goldsman are the primary creative forces behind that show.

Be that as it may, Berlanti is still involved, and therefore shoulders his share of the blame. That said: I’d be happy not to let either Johns or Goldsman run the DC Cinematic Universe either.

Yeah, Timm and Dini should've been running the DCEU from the beginning. I dunno about the others yet, it seems hasty to suggest Wan and Hamada.

Oh, I don’t disagree; I was just tossing some names out there.

I, and many others, genuinely enjoy the Arrowverse.

And that’s great. Seriously. I’m not trying to take that away from you. I’m just responding to your thoughts with my own.

 

[Boy Scout]

Why get someone good when you can just get another kind of bad?

Honestly.

 

[kguillou]

Big no to that. Lame effects, melodrama, and overall ****ty writing aren’t what I want from any incarnation of my favorite comic book universe. Just because the movies are ****ing up doesn’t mean that the Arrowverse is particularly good on its own merits. I’d rather not see any of my favorite characters for a while if my only options are the bumbling fools in the movie division or Greg Berlanti.

Eh, I think you're being too harsh on it. Yes, I too have big problems with the Arrowverse but I think theres a LOT they do right. I may not watch all of the shows but their crossovers have been excellent and very impressive for TV. The "Crisis on Earth X" crossover last year was way better than The Defenders....way better than Justice League even. The storytelling on each show could use work and I think thats a result of having such long seasons each year but they've done a great job of assembling a very likeable cast of actors embodying these characters and when they interact with each other its gold imo.

I also think some of it just isn't for me and Im ok with it. Legends of Tomorrow for example is just too goofy and campy for me but I've heard a lot of people praise the show for those same reasons.

P.S. guys theyre about to cast Lex as a recurring character on Supergirl.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Try watching Titans before having an opinion on its quality. Maybe it'll surprise you. I really enjoyed the pilot.

And yeah, I don't watch Legends of Tomorrow either, and the Arrowverse is obviously nowhere near perfect. But it deserves more credit. It's insane how much ground they've covered so far, how many fan favorite characters they've tackled, and how many storylines they've taken inspiration from. I just wish they were allowed to adapt whatever characters and storylines they want to. It's nice to see how much more freedom they've gained over the years after proving themselves.

That's great to know they'll be incorporating Lex Luthor. I think it's pretty much a guarantee that their version will once again be superior to the DCEU version.

 

[kguillou]

I think the CW shows also play much much better when you binge them instead of watching over the course of 30 weeks. I recently binged the latest season of Arrow and it was a very enjoyable watch and I think that was in big part due to the ability to watch the next chapter right away and keep the story momentum going. I plan on watching the first handful of episodes this season and then waiting for it to land on Netflix for the rest next year. Thats also how I watch The 100 (an absolutely FAN-TASTIC show btw).

 

[Boy Scout]

Try watching Titans before having an opinion on its quality. Maybe it'll surprise you. I really enjoyed the pilot.

Like I said, I’ll keep an eye on it

And yeah, I don't watch Legends of Tomorrow either, and the Arrowverse is obviously nowhere near perfect. But it deserves more credit. It's insane how much ground they've covered so far, how many fan favorite characters they've tackled, and how many storylines they've taken inspiration from. I just wish they were allowed to adapt whatever characters and storylines they want to. It's nice to see how much more freedom they've gained over the years after proving themselves.

They’ve achieved a lot, but...no. Sorry. The writing, in my opinion, just isn’t strong enough.

 

[Boy Scout]

Eh, I think you're being too harsh on it.

Maybe, but I stand by what I said.

P.S. guys theyre about to cast Lex as a recurring character on Supergirl.

That makes me wonder what the heck is gonna happen to Superman during Elseworlds.