General Motors

[dnno1]

do you know how many people live in poverty in this country?

Should be over 37 million people (you should check with the census bureau for an exact figure). Why do you ask? Do you want to add to that number?

 

[BlackLantern]

I think his point is most of those people would happily take a pay cut if it meant keeping their job as opposed to some of these longtime auto workers who are basically union ****es.....

 

[Kelly]

Also, ya don't want people losing their jobs in the automotive industry......then theyneed to look within to see what they can do to help themselves.......they need to look within before holding out their hand for a hand out. Hell, cut the CEO's to a dollar, cut salaries by 4%, STOP with these outrageous retirement plans. Take the lumps and bumps that are going to come, and maybe, just maybe the American people will look alittle more favorable on billion dollar helps.

Right now we are looking at how the funds given to the banking industry are being used..........that doesn't help anyone, as far as I'm concerned, asking for another hand out.e



Right now, all I'm seeing is the UAW whining...."why are we the only ones being told to do anything...." and the rest of the auto industry trying the hardest to come up with plans that "allow" them to go on with business as usual. Ain't gonna happen.

 

[dnno1]

But cutting pay is a way to save money. I hate to sound repetitive, but Fedex has cut the pay of their salaried employees, beginning with Fred Smith, the head honcho, taking a 20% pay cut. The rest of the board are taking a 10% cut, and the rest of the salaried employees are taking 7%. They're going to save $800 million.

The reason they had to do that is because while people are still sending stuff overnight, the amount has significantly decreased, especially since this is their peak season (Thanksgiving to New Years).

True, but you would be better off laying off the person than to cut his pay. First of all, even though his pay is cut, you will still have to pay the fixed costs of his benefits (unless you want to cut that too). In addition, if I was facing a pay cut I would certainly go somewhere else where the pay is better (especially if I was one of the companies top performers). I wouldn't be surprised if people would start leaving as soon as they find a better paying job.

 

[dnno1]

I think his point is most of those people would happily take a pay cut if it meant keeping their job as opposed to some of these longtime auto workers who are basically union ****es.....

Speak for yourself. I would be gone if I knew I was getting a paycut. They dare not do that in my industry.

 

[Kelly]

True, but you would be better off laying off the person than to cut his pay. First of all, even though his pay is cut, you will still have to pay the fixed costs of his benefits (unless you want to cut that too). In addition, if I was facing a pay cut I would certainly go somewhere else where the pay is better (especially if I was one of the companies top performers). I wouldn't be surprised if people would start leaving as soon as they find a better paying job.

So your argument against pay cuts is that the people would find a job some place else that pays better. So a GM worker has to take a 5% pay cut, he/she is going to go where? Toyota? ..... really? that's your argument? Or maybe they find a different job in a different field......ok? so? Happens in business all the time......let them go.....I have a feeling that there would be alot fewer than ya think. In today's job market, you are better to "keep your job"....it may be the only one you can find.

I live by my mom's work ethic. "Do you job so good that it will take 5 people to replace you, and always remember.............................you are replaceable."

 

[Addendum]

I've not seen reports regarding DHL, UPS, and the Post Office, but I wouldn't be surprised if the amount of items being shipped overnight or internationally has decreased over the past few months.

So if FedEx is having to cut back, UPS and DHL probably are as well.

If you're willing to leave because the company has to...GASP...cut your pay along with the pay of others (it's not like they're singling out poor wittle old you), then it shows a lack of integrity and loyalty on your part, and would paint any previous showings of loyalty and integrity as dubious

 

[BlackLantern]

So your argument against pay cuts is that the people would find a job some place else that pays better. So a GM worker has to take a 5% pay cut, he/she is going to go where? Toyota? ..... really? that's your argument? Or maybe they find a different job in a different field......ok? so? Happens in business all the time......let them go.....I have a feeling that there would be alot fewer than ya think. In today's job market, you are better to "keep your job"....it may be the only one you can find.

I live by my mom's work ethic. "Do you job so good that it will take 5 people to replace you, and always remember.............................you are replaceable."

My dads philosophy as well.....his was "don't ever discount your abilities, but always remember, no matter how good you are, there is always someone better out there, who is willing to do the same thing but cheaper and faster"

 

[BlackLantern]

Speak for yourself. I would be gone if I knew I was getting a paycut. They dare not do that in my industry.

Not even if it meant putting your company in a better financial position?.....see this is that ******** union mindset I was talking about....YOU ARE REPLACEABLE, and your industry needs to get over itself

My uncle is an executive at Sikorsky here in CT, he's been there almost 30 years...there was a prolonged strike about 2 years ago, and some of the salaried workers in the office went to work on the floor...during that time productivity skyrocketed and they got more done in 3 weeks than the regular employees did in 2 months....

 

[Fading]

Speak for yourself. I would be gone if I knew I was getting a paycut. They dare not do that in my industry.

What's the saying? Beggars can't be choosers.

Like other have said, pretty much anyone is expendible. They can, and will find someone more than eager to work for less than you, and willing to work the hours or job you aren't eager about. With buisnesses having trouble, some places closing down, slowing down, or cutting down, finding jobs is going to get harder. If things get competative, a company looking for profits isn't going to stand for someone playing prima dona and shouting they refuse to accept a pay cut.

If your already make a decent wage, and your company is facing a, "cut everyones pay by 5% or lay ppl off, or go out of buisness", I think 5% is a small price to pay to keep your job. Now with someone barely paying minimum wage it's a problem, but auto factory jobs are considered excellent pay in many smaller towns.

 

[Kelly]

In my district, we had to take a pay cut, which came about because we didn't get the usual 3% raise for cost of living and insurance increase. Our insurance increased and we ended up getting paid less than the previous year. I stayed with the district, and we are doing better than many now because we simply took the lumps for a few years. We had teachers "pisssseeeed" and they left. Guess what, they want to come back to or district now, and the answer is..................hell no, I won't hire any of them back for my department.

 

[XpunkRocker]

Should be over 37 million people (you should check with the census bureau for an exact figure). Why do you ask? Do you want to add to that number?

to people in poverty, 44,000 a year is a lot of money.

 

[XpunkRocker]

Speak for yourself. I would be gone if I knew I was getting a paycut. They dare not do that in my industry.

if you fail to do your job, you should be fired or given a pay cut. employees should not be rewarded for failure. plain and simple

 

[Marx]

Not even if it meant putting your company in a better financial position?.....see this is that ******** union mindset I was talking about....YOU ARE REPLACEABLE, and your industry needs to get over itself

My uncle is an executive at Sikorsky here in CT, he's been there almost 30 years...there was a prolonged strike about 2 years ago, and some of the salaried workers in the office went to work on the floor...during that time productivity skyrocketed and they got more done in 3 weeks than the regular employees did in 2 months....

Exactly.

 

[Fading]

Like I mentioned before, my mom works for a company called Tisa who makes doors I believe for our local Toyota. Our local Toyota is cutting back and taking time off, because of that so is Tisa. My mom's work is going to start doing a work a week, take a week off (unemployment pay) for a while starting in January. It's going to hurt her check. However she's still making more there than she would in other places close by (it's a small town). So she's willing to put up with it until things smooth out.

It sucks, but sometimes that's just how it goes. I'm sure some ppl will quit because of that, and then they'll find out there just aren't enough jobs and that they should have stayed. Personally I'd rather take a pay cut at an auto factory making $18+/hr, than search around and end up having to settle with an $8/hr job working fast food or at a Wal-Mart.

 

[dnno1]

if you fail to do your job, you should be fired or given a pay cut. employees should not be rewarded for failure. plain and simple

But this is not an issue of a failure to perform. You are speaking of hyperbole. The reason why these company's are in trouble is because the banks are not giving out loans and people aren't buying enough cars. I don't see how that is the fault of anyone at GM, Ford, or Chrysler.

 

[dnno1]

Also, ya don't want people losing their jobs in the automotive industry......then theyneed to look within to see what they can do to help themselves.......they need to look within before holding out their hand for a hand out. Hell, cut the CEO's to a dollar, cut salaries by 4%, STOP with these outrageous retirement plans. Take the lumps and bumps that are going to come, and maybe, just maybe the American people will look alittle more favorable on billion dollar helps.

Right now we are looking at how the funds given to the banking industry are being used..........that doesn't help anyone, as far as I'm concerned, asking for another hand out.e



Right now, all I'm seeing is the UAW whining...."why are we the only ones being told to do anything...." and the rest of the auto industry trying the hardest to come up with plans that "allow" them to go on with business as usual. Ain't gonna happen.

Um... I think they did.

 

[dnno1]

What's the saying? Beggars can't be choosers.

Like other have said, pretty much anyone is expendible. They can, and will find someone more than eager to work for less than you, and willing to work the hours or job you aren't eager about. With buisnesses having trouble, some places closing down, slowing down, or cutting down, finding jobs is going to get harder. If things get competative, a company looking for profits isn't going to stand for someone playing prima dona and shouting they refuse to accept a pay cut.

If your already make a decent wage, and your company is facing a, "cut everyones pay by 5% or lay ppl off, or go out of buisness", I think 5% is a small price to pay to keep your job. Now with someone barely paying minimum wage it's a problem, but auto factory jobs are considered excellent pay in many smaller towns.

That's not necessarily true and that's why they have unions. Furthermore most people will try to get the highest pay they can going in. The only people I know that will take less are those that are under-skilled and hiring a lot of those folks will only hurt your company's performance and productivity. Believe me I have seen a company put a bunch of inexperienced people on a project and what they eventually produced was junk. What was that other saying I heard?.. Oh yeah, "The cheapest comes to the dearest.

 

[BlackLantern]

But this is not an issue of a failure to perform. You are speaking of hyperbole. The reason why these company's are in trouble is because the banks are not giving out loans and people aren't buying enough cars. I don't see how that is the fault of anyone at GM, Ford, or Chrysler.

It is actually.....my next car will be a foreign car, probably a Nissan...my mother just bought a brand new Hyundai and my grandparents just picked up a pre-owned Mercedes.....no one I know is buying American cars, granted the big 3 have a lot of vehicles on the road right now, but that 66 percent market share has shown signs of shrinking

 

[BlackLantern]

That's not necessarily true and that's why they have unions. Furthermore most people will try to get the highest pay they can going in. The only people I know that will take less are those that are under-skilled and hiring a lot of those folks will only hurt your company's performance and productivity. Believe me I have seen a company put a bunch of inexperienced people on a project and what they eventually produced was junk. What was that other saying I heard?.. Oh yeah, "The cheapest comes to the dearest.

Unions were originally established to protect the basic rights of workers....when Unions came about there were no established labor laws, no federal safeguard or safety standards....We have those things now and the current incarnation of the union is an antiquated, bloated, and corrupt entity.....it needs to change if it wants to stay involved....

 

[dnno1]

Not even if it meant putting your company in a better financial position?.....see this is that ******** union mindset I was talking about....YOU ARE REPLACEABLE, and your industry needs to get over itself

My uncle is an executive at Sikorsky here in CT, he's been there almost 30 years...there was a prolonged strike about 2 years ago, and some of the salaried workers in the office went to work on the floor...during that time productivity skyrocketed and they got more done in 3 weeks than the regular employees did in 2 months....

Not even. I am not going to be disrespected for the work I have done by taking a pay cut, and I will have to call in my right to self preservation here. If I were to get a pay cut I would be looking for another job. There are many others who feel the same way.

 

[dnno1]

It is actually.....my next car will be a foreign car, probably a Nissan...my mother just bought a brand new Hyundai and my grandparents just picked up a pre-owned Mercedes.....no one I know is buying American cars, granted the big 3 have a lot of vehicles on the road right now, but that 66 percent market share has shown signs of shrinking

Actually 66% is the number of cars produced (I correct myself) 52% is the number sold. That is just where you live. The fact of the matter is the numbers are what they are.

 

[dnno1]

In my district, we had to take a pay cut, which came about because we didn't get the usual 3% raise for cost of living and insurance increase. Our insurance increased and we ended up getting paid less than the previous year. I stayed with the district, and we are doing better than many now because we simply took the lumps for a few years. We had teachers "pisssseeeed" and they left. Guess what, they want to come back to or district now, and the answer is..................hell no, I won't hire any of them back for my department.

Was it that you got a pay cut or that you didn't get a raise? There is a difference (no negative increase in pay with a zero raise).

 

[BlackLantern]

Not even. I am not going to be disrespected for the work I have done by taking a pay cut, and I will have to call in my right to self preservation here. If I were to get a pay cut I would be looking for another job. There are many others who feel the same way.

You're not being disrespected, it's for the good of the company or at least it's supposed to be.....the job market sucks right now and if you're going to go off because of a tiny pay cut, you can get in line with the hundreds of thousands of Americans who have lost jobs this year.....my dad always said be grateful for what you get....

 

[dnno1]

Unions were originally established to protect the basic rights of workers....when Unions came about there were no established labor laws, no federal safeguard or safety standards....We have those things now and the current incarnation of the union is an antiquated, bloated, and corrupt entity.....it needs to change if it wants to stay involved....

That is not the only reason why there are unions. There are no federal laws that provide for adequate health care nor give the employee the ability to reduce wage inequality among their peers (among other things). That's what the Wagner Act provides and is why we have unions in the United States.