General Motors

[Kelly]

As soon as Oil starts going up again, and don't think for a second it wont after people paid $4 for gas. The only temporary good that came out of that false pretense bu*****t was some people were shamed into stopping driving those damn Hummers, Escalades, 300's, and Vipers. Hell, some people who drive work trucks for a living were really screwed. Why? Because GM lacked foresight, and instead of making the most efficient form of machine, they us SUV's that roll over, pick-up's that in angled collisions blow up. And cutting corners on factory tires that killed people. These guys cut corners off thier workers backs to the point the American is like an F'ing Zombie anyway. These heads of the auto industry never took what should have been a prosperous investment in hybrid technologies and kinetic energy batteries. They screwed up, they f'ed themselves.

I hope Obama takes down a couple more people in these industries. ESPECIALLY stop dicking around with the Banks.

Sorry, cold medicine got me rambling.

What do you mean "as soon"........it's already going up since OPEC met 2 weeks ago and slowed production. The place I buy at has gone from $1.65 to $1.98 in 2 weeks since that meeting was announced.

 

[Nivek]

It's over $2 again here as of Monday. They do this every year, turning the screws on America ever since we invaded Iraq. That's why for the past 5 years I knew they were kind of resentful.

thats why we need to invest in all this cool new technology that came out of that, and mass produse it. I seen a tesla, it blew me away to see an Electric car move like that.

 

[Kelly]

It's over $2 again here as of Monday. They do this every year, turning the screws on America ever since we invaded Iraq. That's why for the past 5 years I knew they were kind of resentful.

thats why we need to invest in all this cool new technology that came out of that, and mass produse it. I seen a tesla, it blew me away to see an Electric car move like that.

I'm all for electric cars if they can make them go as far as a car that runs on other fuels. Right now in order to go to my sisters from where I'm at, a trip that takes me 6 hours means I would have to stop and recharge...every 100 miles or so. That's not cool, because I would end up having to stop 3x....in one trip. Or damn if I want to drive to family in Tennessee, forget the drive through in 15 hours....

 

[StorminNorman]

It's over $2 again here as of Monday. They do this every year, turning the screws on America ever since we invaded Iraq. That's why for the past 5 years I knew they were kind of resentful.

Surely I read this wrong.

 

[Nivek]

Probably not. I know it's not popular to say, but you reap what you sow. Detroit seen it coming, and just stayed greedy, and didn't get serious till... hell, did they ever seem like they were taking things seriously?

 

[Nivek]

I'm all for electric cars if they can make them go as far as a car that runs on other fuels. Right now in order to go to my sisters from where I'm at, a trip that takes me 6 hours means I would have to stop and recharge...every 100 miles or so. That's not cool, because I would end up having to stop 3x....in one trip. Or damn if I want to drive to family in Tennessee, forget the drive through in 15 hours....

Long distance trips will still need gas engines, but daily around town travel? 90% of your travel in an electric car from home work store is what you should be looking at. Thats what eats up that precious precious Mad Max film liquid beverage that your car drinks.

Personally, I like some distance between myself and family, but that's a whole other story.

 

[Kelly]

Long distance trips will still need gas engines, but daily around town travel? 90% of your travel in an electric car from home work store is what you should be looking at. Thats what eats up that precious precious Mad Max film liquid beverage that your car drinks.

Personally, I like some distance between myself and family, but that's a whole other story.

Which is why the Ford Escape Hybrid is fine with me.....between me and my school I never get over 30 mph...so its fine for me.

As far as distance and my family.......I didn't say I go evenly monthly....

 

[Bathead]

Seems to me a hybrid would be a good interim vehicle to use until a more useful electric is available. The car companies need to focus on the R+D of both techs if they are to remain viable. Let's face, it fossil fuels are a thing of the past and this insistence from some quarters we need to invest more in this outdated tech is ludicrous.

 

[BlackLantern]

The Good Ole Boy Network still makes tons of money from oil....they won't give it up without a fight

 

[Kelly]

Seems to me a hybrid would be a good interim vehicle to use until a more useful electric is available. The car companies need to focus on the R+D of both techs if they are to remain viable. Let's face, it fossil fuels are a thing of the past and this insistence from some quarters we need to invest more in this outdated tech is ludicrous.

Well the FIRST THING they need to do is make the hybrids they are making AFFORDABLE....

 

[Marx]

There are a lot of things that people should do, Marx. They shouldn't smoke. They should eat better. They should exercise. They shouldn't be so obsessed with acquiring material possessions. They should save more and spend less. They should consider the locations of the clothing and material goods they purchase and not support communist regimes with their dollars if there is another option within reason.

But, are we going to mandate all of these things through legislation? Do we really want the government deciding what is best for us and then legislating it to make it happen?

I never said that these things should be mandated...all I was saying is that it should be common sense to do these things.

So, you are ok if Mr. Obama manipulates the Oil Prices for his personal legacy? He wants Green Cars, he wants people to purchase them, but people don't want them, so.... He makes them want it with higher prices at the pump? Maybe...

Also, doesn't anyone thing that this is a little odd. The President "in charge" of the auto industries.... Bringing the people "The People's Car"? Or in German, Volk's Wagon? There was another administration in another country that wanted to bring cars to market FOR the people a number of years ago... hmmm...

No I would not be ok with a manipulation of the oil prices. The point remains that people aren't taking alternative sources of energy and more fuel efficient cars seriously because the gas prices have magically gone back down. When oil prices rise again, which they inevitably will, and people with big SUV's and Hummers can't afford the cost of gas, I don't want to hear anyone b*******.

 

[The Major]

So, you are ok if Mr. Obama manipulates the Oil Prices for his personal legacy? He wants Green Cars, he wants people to purchase them, but people don't want them, so.... He makes them want it with higher prices at the pump? Maybe...

Obama isn't doing that, though. He really doesn't need to, all he has to do is set up a strong green industry which could take the baton from the oil industry once it starts going belly up. It's something that can't be avoided. Time is against them.

Also, doesn't anyone thing that this is a little odd. The President "in charge" of the auto industries.... Bringing the people "The People's Car"? Or in German, Volk's Wagon?

Obama's only doing that for two reasons you're not mentioning.

1. The American car industry was on its last legs. Without the government getting involved it would be much closer to dying.

2. Since the industry is in the government's influence that comes with mandatory concessions. Which is not a bad thing considering how bad the industry has gotten.

Obama is not doing this in a safe economic environment. That would be genuinely fishy.

There was another administration in another country that wanted to bring cars to market FOR the people a number of years ago... hmmm...

You're going to have try harder then that to credibly Godwin this administration.

 

[The Major]

The Good Ole Boy Network still makes tons of money from oil....they won't give it up without a fight

True. Which is why Obama must succeed with the green industries.

 

[Kelly]

True. Which is why Obama must succeed with the green industries.

As long as the cost of green is out the waaazoooooo.....he's going to have a very hard time selling it.

 

[The Major]

As long as the cost of green is out the waaazoooooo.....he's going to have a very hard time selling it.

Which is what the stimulus money is for. It requires serious research and development to bring the prices down. This has been the biggest problem for green technology. Had the private sector spent the last few decades actually doing this rather then burying it that technology it could have been cheap enough by now.

Another factor was the recharging problem for electric cars. This used to take at least a day before. IIRC they've gotten it down to a few hours, which is very good progress and that was perfected before the stimulus package was passed. The other factor is recharging stations would need to be set up nation wide like gas stations. Prototypes exist for this so it is only a matter of time until that is no longer a hurdle.

 

[Kelly]

Which is what the stimulus money is for. It requires serious research and development to bring the prices down. This has been the biggest problem for green technology. Had the private sector spent the last few decades actually doing this rather then burying it that technology it could have been cheap enough by now.

Another factor was the recharging problem for electric cars. This used to take at least a day before. IIRC they've gotten it down to a few hours, which is very good progress and that was perfected before the stimulus package. The other factor is recharging stations would need to be set up nation wide like gas stations. Prototypes exist for this so it is only a matter of time until that is no longer a hurdle.

*The Stimulus package is not going to help me buy a new car....sorry but the tax credit, doesn't come near offsetting anything. And right now, unless you are an urban driver (which I am so that does help)a hybrid is going to save you little at the gas pump...
*The Stimulus package is not going to help my sister upgrade her house to be more energy efficient, when all of the technology she would need costs out the ass...
*I'm sorry, but I don't believe most people(especially those voting for the first time) voted for Obama because of his green policy. They voted because they saw him and they saw $$$$$$$ signs in "their" pockets....this is going to take money out of their pockets for a long while before it saves them money...


Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's wrong in his green policy. Far from it in fact. I'm just a realist.

 

[Timstuff]

Honestly, I do not think that a 100% battery-powered car is ever going to happen, simply because no-one wants to be stuck on a long road trip when their battery dies. On the other hand though, we can't use hybrids indefinitely, because eventually we WILL run out of oil. With that in mind, I think hydrogen fuel cell cars are the most likely solution to the gas problem. Fuel cell cars are pretty much 100% green, because the hydrogen fuel can be obtained from virtually any power source. They can either be plugged into a standard power outlet and charged similar to a battery (the fuel cell converts electricity into hydrogen, just like it converts hydrogen into electricity), so you could theoretically charge your car at home overnight, and then refill the tanks at service stations as necessary.

The real tricky issue, is how to get a hydrogen fuel infrastructure installed, and I think that that's the big reason why companies like GM have been investing in the technology but has been dragging their feet about getting the cars on the road. It will be a lot of work to make sure that hydrogen pumps are readily availible for motorists, and it's going to cost a ton of money.

For now, I think the ideal is to make sure there are lots of fuel efficient vehicles on the road, while simultaneously exploiting our domestic oil sources and beginning construction on the hydrogen infrastructure. I think that gasoline-powered cars and hydrogen cars will be able to co-exist comfortably for another decade or two, but sooner or later the gasoline market will probably be reduced to the industrial sect and classic vehicle enthusiasts.

 

[Kelly]

Honestly, I do not think that a 100% battery-powered car is ever going to happen, simply because no-one wants to be stuck on a long road trip when their battery dies. On the other hand though, we can't use hybrids indefinitely, because eventually we WILL run out of oil. With that in mind, I think hydrogen fuel cell cars are the most likely solution to the gas problem. Fuel cell cars are pretty much 100% green, because the hydrogen fuel can be obtained from virtually any power source. They can either be plugged into a standard power outlet and charged similar to a battery (the fuel cell converts electricity into hydrogen, just like it converts hydrogen into electricity), so you could theoretically charge your car at home overnight, and then refill the tanks at service stations as necessary.

The real tricky issue, is how to get a hydrogen fuel infrastructure installed, and I think that that's the big reason why companies like GM have been investing in the technology but has been dragging their feet about getting the cars on the road. It will be a lot of work to make sure that hydrogen pumps are readily availible for motorists, and it's going to cost a ton of money.

For now, I think the ideal is to make sure there are lots of fuel efficient vehicles on the road, while simultaneously exploiting our domestic oil sources and beginning construction on the hydrogen infrastructure. I think that gasoline-powered cars and hydrogen cars will be able to co-exist comfortably for another decade or two, but sooner or later the gasoline market will probably be reduced to the industrial sect and classic vehicle enthusiasts.

We have a huge amount of natural gas as well....

 

[The Major]

*The Stimulus package is not going to help me buy a new car....sorry but the tax credit, doesn't come near offsetting anything.

It is does for many others.

And right now, unless you are an urban driver (which I am so that does help)a hybrid is going to save you little at the gas pump...

True.

*The Stimulus package is not going to help my sister upgrade her house to be more energy efficient, when all of the technology she would need costs out the ass...

Right now it is. But with the stimulus it will make it that much earlier for that to occur down the road. Without that she'd never be able to upgrade her house to be ever be energy efficient.

*I'm sorry, but I don't believe most people(especially those voting for the first time) voted for Obama because of his green policy. They voted because they saw him and they saw $$$$$$$ signs in "their" pockets

I never meant to imply most people voted for Obama just for his green policy. This was just one possible reason why he got their vote. Many people who voted for him probably disagree about this or don't care about the subject. The reason this is a good platform for him is that it finally moves the country in the direction away from fossil fuels. It can also help adding a new industry to the country's arsenal to bring the debt down.

....this is going to take money out of their pockets for a long while before it saves them money...

True. Which is why it's a long term plan, not a short term plan. That's what a lot of the stimulus is doing, though it can do plenty with short term unemployment and fixing this country's infrastructure that we've needed for years early on.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's wrong in his green policy. Far from it in fact. I'm just a realist.

I understand. I'd like the green industry to be strong enough to help you and your sister, its just that it isn't at that level yet. It is well on its way to getting there sooner rather then later. That's why I'm optomistic about it.

 

[Kelly]

I see this policy, RIGHT NOW, I think it will evolve, but right now. It's kind of like buying a $30,000 product, at the beginning, but you have to send in the rebate to get the $10,000 off.

I just don't see a large number doing that right now.

 

[The Major]

I see this policy, RIGHT NOW, I think it will evolve, but right now. It's kind of like buying a $30,000 product, at the beginning, but you have to send in the rebate to get the $10,000 off.

I just don't see a large number doing that right now.

I agree.

 

[dnno1]

Honestly, I do not think that a 100% battery-powered car is ever going to happen, simply because no-one wants to be stuck on a long road trip when their battery dies. On the other hand though, we can't use hybrids indefinitely, because eventually we WILL run out of oil. With that in mind, I think hydrogen fuel cell cars are the most likely solution to the gas problem. Fuel cell cars are pretty much 100% green, because the hydrogen fuel can be obtained from virtually any power source. They can either be plugged into a standard power outlet and charged similar to a battery (the fuel cell converts electricity into hydrogen, just like it converts hydrogen into electricity), so you could theoretically charge your car at home overnight, and then refill the tanks at service stations as necessary.

The real tricky issue, is how to get a hydrogen fuel infrastructure installed, and I think that that's the big reason why companies like GM have been investing in the technology but has been dragging their feet about getting the cars on the road. It will be a lot of work to make sure that hydrogen pumps are readily availible for motorists, and it's going to cost a ton of money.

For now, I think the ideal is to make sure there are lots of fuel efficient vehicles on the road, while simultaneously exploiting our domestic oil sources and beginning construction on the hydrogen infrastructure. I think that gasoline-powered cars and hydrogen cars will be able to co-exist comfortably for another decade or two, but sooner or later the gasoline market will probably be reduced to the industrial sect and classic vehicle enthusiasts.

Actually it's happening (or has already happened for a number of years now). There are a good number of people and entire communities who drive electric vehicles. In Seal Beach, California, there are some families who drive around town in an electric cart like the one shown above. It is easier to get around that small town and you don't have to pay for gasoline.

Pretty much the entire island community of Catalina off the cost of California uses electric vehicles (mainly golf carts) since the island is a conservancy and the pollution from the exhaust of petroleum fueled vehicles could seriously hurt the environment. I wouldn't say that 100% battery powered cars won't work since it is already happening. It all depends on what type of market will be there as to whether it will grow any more than it already is. I have a feeling that with the price of gas being just over $2.00/gallon and the fact that people are not making enough to match the rise in the cost of living we may be seeing more people looking towards alternatives to gasoline fueled vehicles.

 

[SuBe]

Golf Carts?

 

[Paradyme]

Golf Carts?

Are they even street legal? I can see the street racers now.

 

[The Major]

Golf Carts?

That's an electrical prototype of how the technology can work. All they need is to use foundation that to build similar technology for heavier vehicles.