General Motors

[dnno1]

And even then, there wasn't looting in the streets or any sort of rampant lawlessness. Life sucked, yes, but it wasn't an "apocalypse."

Bonnie and Clyde

Ma Barker and the Forrest Gang

Pretty Boy Floyd and Baby Face Nelson

Machine Gun Kelly

And this is not to mention Al Capone, John Derringer and their respective gangs nor the St. Valentines day massacre. There was all sorts of lawlessness in those days.

 

[SentinelMind]

An Auto Czar...in the government? OMG....I'm going to google this.

 

[SentinelMind]

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081113/POLITICS/811130411&imw=Y

Auto Czar

 

[Paradoxium]

The problem with the three automakers is a lack of flexibility to restructure and innovate. Appointing a czar only adds to the red tape. His job is to make sure the money is spent the way he wants it to be spent. In other words, an indirect management of their operations.

Anyone this qualified and capable of actually producing results and profits.... would never work for the government and would be too busy making money elsewhere. I'm just saying

 

[dnno1]

It is a "crime" against the Three Tennets, Taxation and Redistrubution for anything other than for Preservation of Life, Liberty, and Property are against the original intent of the Constitution.

Yes, it would SUCK if these corporations fail. If people are laid off. But, that is the outcome of making bad decisions, and I see the everlasting effects of Oppression, over-Taxation, and loss of Economic Liberty from the Hands of Government to be worse.

Look the law says that we should pay taxes and that it is a crime not to. Your so called "Three Tenets" theory doesn't hold any water even if you were to fold it into a cup.

 

[dnno1]

Anyone good with the laws and its loopholes? Maybe there is an alternative to bankruptcy in terms of getting out of bed with the UAW.

edit: I want to add that two years ago was one of the biggest car markets ever. AND GM could not make a profit then, what makes anyone think they can sustain through a recession with a bailout?

Last year, GM and the UAW agreed to a contract that would relieve the automaker of about $47 billion in 2010. It seems that the UAW has worked with the automakers. I don't know why everybody is trying to blame them for everything.

 

[SuBe]

Look the law says that we should pay taxes and that it is a crime not to. Your so called "Three Tenets" theory doesn't hold any water even if you were to fold it into a cup.

So, you don't even care what the Constitution says then, or why it was even written, do you?

Do yourself a favor, read it and Google "The Law" by Frederic Bastiat, and read that. It'll give you a little insight.

 

[dnno1]

So, you don't even care what the Constitution says then, or why it was even written, do you?

Do yourself a favor, read it and Google "The Law" by Frederic Bastiat, and read that. It'll give you a little insight.

I do. Article I, Section 8, says that the government can tax you, so that is the law. I am not concerned with the opinions of Fredric Bastiat. He is not a Supreme Court Justice so he has no faculties to interpret the Constitution.

 

[Anita18]

Lets assume you are your parents, you pull in $100,000 a year total. It's you, your spouse, your kid, your car and your home. Alread, off the Bat, you are paying 33% in income Taxes alone. There goes $33,333, leaving your with $77,777. Then, you have FICA Taxes (Social Security, etc) of 6.5%. There goes $5,055.50. Leaving you $72,721.50. Then, you have your mortage, let's say it's $1000 a month. That leaves you with $60,721.50. Now, you also have your regular grocery bills, that's about $400 a month. Leaving you with $54.721.50.

Then, you have your car, with the State Licensing Fee, of about $100, so you now have $54,621.50. Oh, crap, you forgot about State and City Taxes, State Taxes about about 5%, but that's on what you earned, not what wealth you have, so there goes another $5,000, leaving you $49,621.50. And a City tax of 3%. So, there goes another $3000 bucks. Leaving you with $46,621.50. AND there's Property Tax. Which is $3000 a year on your $180,000 home. So, we are down to what? $43,621.50.

Now, you have cable and cell phone bills, $100 a month for Cable and Internet, leaving you with $42421, and $100 a month for that Family Plan Cell phone Bill. $41.221.

Then, $350 a month for those car payments, $4200 a year. Down to $37,021. Electric, that $75 a month, $900. Leaving $36,121. Then Gas for the car, $25 a week. Thats $1300 a year. Leaving you with $34821.

Crap, Anita is going to College? That's how much again?

And we still have home owners insurance, Car Insurance, Jr's School Fees, Anita's College Books, the Family dog to take care of and feed. And, we even will have to pay H&R Block to file our taxes. Then, we have membership fees at CostCo.

That $100,000 a year income doesn't look so hot now does it?

Plenty of people survive on less. My own parents survived for many years with less (they certainly do now), and we've never been concerned about not being able to pay our bills or get food on the table. We're just very prudent on saving, that's all.

And thanks for the attitude.

And this is not to mention Al Capone, John Derringer and their respective gangs nor the St. Valentines day massacre. There was all sorts of lawlessness in those days.

You don't think that still exists now? Drug dealers? Various city-based mafia? They're just smarter about it, IMO.

What I mean is everyone going out and looting their local 7-11. Which didn't happen then and won't happen in the future, unless we have nuclear war.

 

[Paradoxium]

Last year, GM and the UAW agreed to a contract that would relieve the automaker of about $47 billion in 2010. It seems that the UAW has worked with the automakers. I don't know why everybody is trying to blame them for everything.

No one said they responsible for every problem, but they contributed to a lot. My point is no union = less hurdles and strings. You have Toyota working it out in a fair way. Imagine the billions they could have saved if something was done sooner.

 

[dnno1]

You don't think that still exists now? Drug dealers? Various city-based mafia? They're just smarter about it, IMO.

I never said that. You were the one saying "there wasn't looting in the streets or any sort of rampant lawlessness" back then.

What I mean is everyone going out and looting their local 7-11. Which didn't happen then and won't happen in the future, unless we have nuclear war.

They were robbing banks, trafficking contraband, kidnapping people for ransom, and killing cops... with machine guns back then. I don't know what you really mean but you certainly don't know your history.

 

[dnno1]

No one said they responsible for every problem, but they contributed to a lot. My point is no union = less hurdles and strings. You have Toyota working it out in a fair way. Imagine the billions they could have saved if something was done sooner.

Saying that they contributed to allot is basically blaming them. Look, the union is there and they have a right to be. I think trying to eliminate them when they don't want to be is a violation of their rights. They are working with management to help out (they were even present at the congressional hearings). I think both parties know what they need to do, they just need cash to help them do it. They have been aware of the problem since 2003 have have been working since then to curb it. GM has been taking actions to improve liquidity as of late and the request for government assistances is for help to get loans which are not available due to the financial crisis.

 

[Anita18]

They were robbing banks, trafficking contraband, kidnapping people for ransom, and killing cops... with machine guns back then. I don't know what you really mean but you certainly don't know your history.

I meant EVERYONE. Like, you, your families, and your neighbors going out with shotguns and robbing every bank in the neighborhood.

If they glossed over that in history class, I wouldn't be surprised though.

 

[Paradoxium]

Saying that they contributed to allot is basically blaming them. Look, the union is there and they have a right to be. I think trying to eliminate them when they don't want to be is a violation of their rights. They are working with management to help out (they were even present at the congressional hearings). I think both parties know what they need to do, they just need cash to help them do it. They have been aware of the problem since 2003 have have been working since then to curb it. GM has been taking actions to improve liquidity as of late and the request for government assistances is for help to get loans which are not available due to the financial crisis.

Your trying to twist my words to suit your arguments. They contributed to it along with inept management. And it is not a right, but a privilege. You abuse a privilege you lose it. If it was a right Toyota would have unionized a long time ago.

They had a chance two years ago when the auto market was flourishing, they could not even make a dent. Now the market is asking for reparations whether you or I like it or not.

 

[Paradoxium]

I meant EVERYONE. Like, you, your families, and your neighbors going out with shotguns and robbing every bank in the neighborhood.

If they glossed over that in history class, I wouldn't be surprised though.

Why would people want to rob banks when the money is useless, unless they ran out of toilet paper of something

 

[Anita18]

Why would people want to rob banks when the money is useless, unless they ran out of toilet paper of something

For the gooooold.

That would probably be worthless anyway?

I dunno, why do people loot electronic stores during natural disasters?

 

[Motown Marvel]

what sucks most is the fact that when i was young i was so promised flying cars by this time in my life, yet this is what im dealing with.

 

[Malice]

You know...Unions today are frankly out of touch.

AT&T workers are about to start striking....
Why....AT&T wants to have the employees pay 25% of their medical insurance, instead of 0%

Ya know...I pay like 25% to 35% for my medical insurance, I told the guy with AT&T to shut the **** up and accept paying a little in medical insurance you spoiled little ****

I asked him, how many people in the US have employers pay all their insurance?

 

[BlackLantern]

The union is taking up capital and looking out for themselves.....the unions original purpose was to look out for workers rights, prior to Labor Laws, OSHA, etc....now we have all that, and the union, as it exists today, is obsolete and should be purged

 

[SuBe]

The union is taking up capital and looking out for themselves.....the unions original purpose was to look out for workers rights, prior to Labor Laws, OSHA, etc....now we have all that, and the union, as it exists today, is obsolete and should be purged

I completely agree. But, the Democrats would never allow this, as this is one of the biggest voter blocks.

 

[Heretic]

You know...Unions today are frankly out of touch.

AT&T workers are about to start striking....
Why....AT&T wants to have the employees pay 25% of their medical insurance, instead of 0%

Ya know...I pay like 25% to 35% for my medical insurance, I told the guy with AT&T to shut the **** up and accept paying a little in medical insurance you spoiled little ****

I asked him, how many people in the US have employers pay all their insurance?

Unions are a big reason why we're in this mess. Their purpose now is to get as little work done, with the highest pay possible, with every benefit known to man, can we do even less work???, and then guarantee that they are never fired. What happens when the company goes out of business? Hows your union benefits look then?

 

[BlackLantern]

Unions are a big reason why we're in this mess. Their purpose now is to get as little work done, with the highest pay possible, with every benefit known to man, can we do even less work???, and then guarantee that they are never fired. What happens when the company goes out of business? Hows your union benefits look then?

A co-worker of mines husband (who is in the plumbers union) just got laid off about 3 weeks ago....now that same company is hiring plumbers on a contracted basis (basically ensuring that they don't have to deal with the Union anymore)

 

[Heretic]

A co-worker of mines husband (who is in the plumbers union) just got laid off about 3 weeks ago....now that same company is hiring plumbers on a contracted basis (basically ensuring that they don't have to deal with the Union anymore)

In my line of work I dont have to deal with unions, but if i did, I would avoid them at all costs.

 

[BlackLantern]

Most any place (my job included) hiring these days has a very strict anti-Union policy....they even have you sign an agreement prior to your employment

 

[Anita18]

I asked him, how many people in the US have employers pay all their insurance?

I do, but that's because I'm young and healthy, and I can chance the most basic HMO plans.

If I wanted a PPO, I'd have to pay quite a bit more out of pocket.