Grant Morrison OWNS Frank Miller

Fred_Fury said:
grant morrison is just mad he didnt think of it first. i cant wait for this comic book. Frank Miller wrote DKR, he is a god.
I can write completely out of character stories for heroes that are iconic to the American culture, too. Hell, I can have them running around calling twelve year olds ******ed, and proclaiming themselves to be "The Goddamn" whatever too. Am I now elevated to god status Fred? Hell, my ten year old sister can write a more in character Batman than Frank Miller.
 
Morrisons run on X-Men was outstanding. I think what hooks me most about him is he breaks taboos. For the first time someone made mutants UGLY, not normal looking. He also turned the mutant racism allegory on it's head by making the X-Universe much closer to a light Civil Rights movements complete with ghettos and riots.
 
ShadowBoxing said:
Morrisons run on X-Men was outstanding. I think what hooks me most about him is he breaks taboos. For the first time someone made mutants UGLY, not normal looking. He also turned the mutant racism allegory on it's head by making the X-Universe much closer to a light Civil Rights movements complete with ghettos and riots.


Do you mean ugly as in personality or looks?:confused:
 
Darthphere said:
I think Year One is great, but hes chosen to stick with his DKR model after that. DKR is out of continuity for a reason, its not his fault writers chose DKR as a model for Batman but he holds some sort of strange influence over the comic book community. I respect Grant Morrison for realizing that and doing something about it. Paul Dini as well and many other Batman writers.
I did an 8th grade oral book report describing why To Kill A Mockingbird sucked compared to Harry Potter,in humorous fashion. Doesn't mean that To Kill A Mockingbird actually sucked.:o
 
Not Jake said:
I did an 8th grade oral book report describing why To Kill A Mockingbird sucked compared to Harry Potter,in humorous fashion. Doesn't mean that To Kill A Mockingbird actually sucked.:o


That analogy doesnt even work in this case, at all.:confused:
 
ShadowBoxing said:
Appearance. I mean look at the people they had as students at the school.


Theyve always had ugly mutants though.:confused:
 
ShadowBoxing said:
Appearance. I mean look at the people they had as students at the school.


They looked like they actually had genetic mutations. As in, deformities and the like.
 
Darthphere said:
That analogy doesnt even work in this case, at all.:confused:
you respect Morrison for making fun of a classic book, well, my classmates respected me for making fun of a classic book. Doesn't mean that the book isn't great:confused:
 
Darthphere said:
Theyve always had ugly mutants though.:confused:
Ummm no not really. Practically everyone in X-Men was incredibly attractive. That was actually a joke about the series for the longest time.

I mean besides Artie and Leech...but they don't count as characters.
 
Not Jake said:
you respect Morrison for making fun of a classic book, well, my classmates respected me for making fun of a classic book. Doesn't mean that the book isn't great:confused:


When did Morrison make fun of DKR? I think youre taking some of that Gingold.
 
ShadowBoxing said:
Ummm no not really. Practically everyone in X-Men was incredibly attractive. That was actually a joke about the series for the longest time.

I mean besides Artie and Leech...but they don't count as characters.


Except they do.:o


Either way, I don't see how that makes his book so great. It just means theres some ugly looking people out there.
 
Darthphere said:
When did Morrison make fun of DKR? I think youre taking some of that Gingold.
When he gave a Batman interview and made fun of the first-person narrative Miller used in his Batman story, DKR
 
Not Jake said:
When he gave a Batman interview and made fun of the first-person narrative Miller used in his Batman story, DKR


So were talking about some other interview that I havent read. Well, thats his right isnt it. The same way Frank Miller has the right to write all women as ****es, and I have the right to not read it.
 
Not Jake said:
Beast, Nightcrawler
nightcrawler11.jpg

nightcrawler15.jpg

pict49.jpg

BeastBlue.jpg

Nightcrawler and Beast were Blue but not remotely ugly. They had traditionally handsome facial features.
 
ShadowBoxing said:
nightcrawler11.jpg

nightcrawler15.jpg

pict49.jpg

BeastBlue.jpg

Nightcrawler and Beast were Blue but not remotely ugly. They had traditionally handsome facial features.


Translation: "Im gay for them"
 
I guess if you like gargoyles and alien toes


Plus Beast first looked like a down syndrome shaved ape.
 
Darthphere said:
Except they do.:o


Either way, I don't see how that makes his book so great. It just means theres some ugly looking people out there.
Because he actually wrote X-Men like it should have been written. He took the actual premise and ran with it, made it distinguishable from other Superhero books moreso than it had been.

He also brought a sense of realism and grit to it and made it an actual allegory for an oppressed minority rather than just a superhero book.
 
ShadowBoxing said:
Because he actually wrote X-Men like it should have been written. He took the actual premise and ran with it, made it distinguishable from other Superhero books moreso than it had been.

He also brought a sense of realism and grit to it and made it an actual allegory for an oppressed minority rather than just a superhero book.


Yeah, I guess Stan lee, Kirby, Claremont, Byrne and all those others just ****ed up big time.


And isnt that the same stuff Morrison is condemning.:confused:
 
Not Jake said:
I guess if you like gargoyles and alien toes


Plus Beast first looked like a down syndrome shaved ape.
Uh no actually Kirby used to draw him like a muscled up guy. He did not look ape-ish in the slightest.
 
Darthphere said:
Yeah, I guess Stan lee, Kirby, Claremont, Byrne and all those others just ****ed up big time.
No they had a take on it. Morrison had a take and actually explored a premise that should have been explored years before. I did not compare it to anything, you did that.
And isnt that the same stuff Morrison is condemning.:confused:
Kind of. Morrison breaks taboos. Anyone who reads Morrison at a rudamentary level can recognize this.

Making Dr Caulder an evil manipulative bastard, showing Batman as a person who is as psychotically f***ed up as those he locks away, bringing in the notion that Bruce Wayne gets lost within his monster personality, showing the X-Men as in fact an oppressed minority of freaks.

These are things no other writer had bothered to touch for years. Morrison doesn't seem to look at things in the typical comic book boundaries most writers approach things.

Phoenix Saga was excellent, but is it really a story about mutants. Could that same story not have played out in Avengers or Fantastic Four. I think so. Change the characters, you could actually still end up with a comprable storyline.
 
Also, another reason the racist allegory worked so well is because most mutants did look like everybody else for the most part. Racism isnt because people have 4 arms or 12 eyes, its just because their different in skin color. They look just like us, except for one defining feature, their skin color. The same with most mutants they look just like us except for that one defining feature, their mutation.
 
Darthphere said:
Also, another reason the racist allegory worked so well is because most mutants did look like everybody else for the most part. Racism isnt because people have 4 arms or 12 eyes, its just because their different in skin color. They look just like us, except for one edfining feature, their skin color. The same with most mutantsm they look just like us except for that one defining feature, their mutation.
That would work great except there were never any black mutants, or asian mutants. It was white people essentially against other white people in a world where the Fantastic Four are cool but mutants are not...until they join the Avengers. So as a racism analogy it was sh**. The fact is, until Morrison there was no difference between the X-Men and the Avengers really. Both were comprised of mutated individuals who fought intergalactic threats and tyrants.

The only things that ever showed a racism angle were the fact that the philosophies of Xavier and Magneto somewhat resembled MLK and X. However they never even bothered playing that out. We knew they were philosophically different, but then it was onto Villainous and Hero business as usual. (In the Lee/Kirby era).

During Claremont, Days of The Future Past actually delved into the racism angle in the post Apocalypic future. They did address the natural hypocracy set up by Lee by having Sentinels wipe out all metas. However in doing so they linked mutants with other superheroes rather than making them a distinct race.

Morrison actually bothered to make Magneto a leader of a counter culture movement. Actually bothered to make the Institute and actual Institute, a SCHOOL. What is was suppose to be. Not something akin to the Avengers mansion.

True Lee and Claremont wrote excellent X-Men stories, but there was nothing distinct about them. They explored cool things like Cyclops and Jean's love. Wolverine's sorted past. Iceman's family insecurities. But what does that have to do with being an oppressed minority.

They weren't freaks. They were lucky stiffs who got to live in a mansion with nothing but perfectly attractive and beautiful people. There was romance and they got to fly blackbird jets.

Meanwhile they never once adopted anyone like Beak or Angel onto the team. The mutants were never freaks, just people with powers not unlike others. In some cases the powers carried curses (Rogue, Cyclops) but in most cases they were just powers.

Morrison changed all that. He made Xavier Institute a School, with teachers, who taught freakish mutants.

Blacks did look different, that was the point of racism. You could tell them apart, while mutants just blended in.
 
ShadowBoxing said:
That would work great except there were never any black mutants, or asian mutants. It was white people essentially against other white people in a world where the Fantastic Four are cool but mutants are not...until they join the Avengers. So as a racism analogy it was sh**. The fact is, until Morrison there was no difference between the X-Men and the Avengers really. Both were comprised of mutated individuals who fought intergalactic threats and tyrants.

The only things that ever showed a racism angle were the fact that the philosophies of Xavier and Magneto somewhat resembled MLK and X. However they never even bothered playing that out. We knew they were philosophically different, but then it was onto Villainous and Hero business as usual.

Morrison actually bothered to make Magneto a leader of a counter culture movement. Actually bothered to make the Institute and actual Institute, a SCHOOL. What is was suppose to be. Not something akin to the Avengers mansion.

True Lee and Claremont wrote excellent X-Men stories, but there was nothing distinct about them. They explored cool things like Cyclops and Jean's love. Wolverine's sorted past. Iceman's family insecurities. But what does that have to do with being an oppressed minority.

They weren't freaks. They were lucky stiffs who got to live in a mansion with nothing but perfectly attractive and beautiful people. There was romance and they got to fly blackbird jets.

Meanwhile they never once adopted anyone like Beak or Angel onto the team. The mutants were never freaks, just people with powers not unlike others. In some cases the powers carried curses (Rogue, Cyclops) but in most cases they were just powers.

Morrison changed all that. He made Xavier Institute a School, with teachers, who taught freakish mutants.

Blacks did look different, that was the point of racism. You could tell them apart, while mutants just blended in.


I disagree with everything you just said.
 

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