Green Lantern Rebirth

lol, i just read rebirth, and i must say it was pretty cool, i liked how hal described how different each gl uses his ring, but i still don't like him, and my respect for batman hasn't dropped because of his attitude there, in fact i even gained some respect for him
 
Hal got the slap-on-the-wrist treatment

This is Parallel to cops being corrupt and start taking bribes....and when their caught, they get off easy...

And the GLC is a police-type organization.....
And Hal is a GL...and he did his share of being corrupt....
the parallel is complete.
 
I'm going to post my problems with the mini-series from an e-mail I wrote last year to a friend;

ebirth #1
1. Why did Parallax trash Warrior's and leave a statue of Hal Jordan behind?
2. Why did Alan Scott make the corp GL symbol? Parallax was trying to posses him,
but why the symbol?
3. Why is Batman still an ******* who runs the JLA, despite being an abusive psychopath
who hates everyone?
4. Jordan was supposed to have extreme willpower, to the point he turned the Spectre into
the Spirit of Redemption™, so why was he unable to control it anymore?
5. Was it really necessary for Geof Johns to write the particuarly gruesome scene with
Blackhand getting his hand turned to coal? Moreover, Blackhand went on about taking the
GL ring, instead of leaching of the power put out by GLs when fighting them. But the ring hadn't
been charged in what, 7 years, DC time? Ignoring the 24 hour time limit, residual energy would have
disappated LONG ago, moreover, I THINK he knew the power was really in the battery,
not the ring.
6. Why Parallax controlling the rings, despite not being in the central power battery anymore (of course,
he had the power of the Spectre, couldn't he posses ANYONE, not just GLs?) did he allow various rings
to warn the users that he was coming, to several GLs, across 2 or 3 issues
7. Why did he make Guy Gardner sick? Wouldn't it be better to have a Vuldarian GL as a pawn? He'd be
FAR more powerful than a measly human (Granted I HATED the vuldarian crap, but there were many
better ways to get rid of it, saying hypertime to make it go "poof" or ignore it, to having supervillians turn his power
off, to having the chemicals which turned him into an alien wear off, etc.)

#2
1. When John Stewart (JS) went on a rampage, he was angry, not afraid. If Parallax was a spirt if fear,
wouldn't JS be crazy with fear, instead of anger?
2. From a storytelling point, WHY turn GG into a GL again? There are now FOUR human GLs. Hal Jordan
(because sales were slipping), Kyle Rayner (to appease the fans who wanted him to be GL, and to not
kill him off), John Stewart (because of the tv show). I loved him as a GL, but that ship has sailed. It would
have been better to give him another yellow ring. Hell, Giffen and Demattis are making a great mystery going
on in JL: Classified involving his new ring, which may not or may not actually BE a ring, which also might be a sentient
entity or symbiot.
3. If Parallax only possesed people who used their ring, why was GG possesed? He was unconscious when
the duplicate landed on his finger. Of course, the only reason the ring duplicated was so the HJ could get it at
the end of number 4. Also, if the duplicate was charged, why wasn't the original one charged? Ollie had to
charge it in number 4 to get it to work.
4. Kilowag was under COMPLETE domination. Why were the other GLs only angry, instead of full out mind
controlled?
5. Why was Kyle Rayner immune (KR)? Shouldn't his lack of fearlessness make him MORE vulnerable to
fear, not less,?
6. Why was Ganthet in the coffin instead of just in the ship? Why didn't he heal/save KR from his injuries in
the spaceship crash? What was he doing in that coffin, and why did he let Kilowag beat up KR?
(if it involves Necrophilia, and having to put his dressback on, I DON'T want to know.)


#3
1. Why did Ganthet (G) fight Kilowag? The Guardians have easily handed Sinestro's ass to him before, so couldn't he
just turned off the ring the GUARDIANS DESIGNED AND MADE, pimpslapped Kilowag, and freed him from the mind control?
2. When did G get powerful enough to crack a planet open? GJ increased the power of the Guardians for no reason,
if they were THAT powerful, why have a GL corp in the first place?
3. If KR was "immune" to the mind control, why did he **** a brick about using his ring in #1-4, then start
using it hardcore in #5 and 6?
4. Since when was the GL corp powered by "the color of willpower? Wouldn't collecting it throughout the universe
turn the beings into mindless, will-less sheep? (a stupid concept, but moving on). Before, the
orgins were a combination of superscience, and the energies of OA, the center of the universe, which helped
power the Central battery (later it was retconned into magic crystals, but that's beside the point). Why were the
Guadian STUPID enough to imprison a fear monster in their central battery? Why not just create a separate prison,
instead of being stuck with ONLY fearless beings being capable of using the power ring (also, rings have been
stolen and used by NON-fearless being in the past), and that made the ring vulnerable to the color yellow?
More over, it was previously established the ring NEEDED the yellow weakness to function (HJ was once given
a filter for his ring by an alien which made his ring impervious to the color yellow. The ring was permanently broken,
because it NEEDED the yellow impurity to work).
5. If Parallax was capable of taking over ANYONE, why influence HJ? Why not dominate him completely, like
with GG, JS, and Kilowag?
6. Hals' body: Why did they retrieve it? The Guardians (and power rings) have never had the power to resurrect people,
moreover, until this mini-series, Parallax had NEVER manifested himself since HJ merged with the Spectre. So why the
worry? When did they find out about the rings being controlled by Parallax? So why get the body? (answer, to conveniently
get resurrected for no reason in #4). Also, how did Hal die? He expended his power to reignite the sun in Final Night.
If his body was held together by residual energies, why wasn't he crispy-fried? How did he die if he wasn't
incinerated? Moreover,when KR became Ion, he sucked up all of the GL energy left in the sun.
How come the energy holding Hals body together not get absorbed, destroying his body?

#4
1. How did Sinestro conveniently know about Hal's body? Why was he there to destroy it? To prevent Parallax
being sucked out of the Spectre if Jordan was resurrected? Never explained.
2. Where has Sinestro been since Emerald Twilight? Chilling in the Caribbean? If he was on Qward, WHY would
he let the Qwardians give one of his rings to a punk like Alex Nero?
3. Also, GG had stolen Sinestro's power ring from his corpse on OA (another continuity error, but beside the point).
HOW did he get off planet? I'm not sure OA has any spaceships, with all the power rings. Parallax didn't do
it, since he was only influencing Jordan at this point, and I'm sure he would have been confused about Sinestro,
whose neck he had just broken, asking for a ride to Qward (or the Carribean)
4. The heroes were neither written nor drawn to actually seem afraid of Parallax, so why were they just standing there? Why didn't
Parallax bother to actually attack, instead of just standing there?
5. Why did the Spectre punk out? Last issue, he had made a big deal about merging with HJ to free him from Parallax,
who he wanted to destroy for being an abomination in "God's universe"
6. How did Jordan come back to life? Again, Guardians can't resurrect, plus Ganthet seemed to do nothing more than show Jordan
a nice shiny green ball. So what, stepping into his body started his cardiovascular system again?
7. It was claimed that Ganthet was even more powerful than the Spectre... The guardians had their ass kicked by the Anti-monitor
ealy in Crises, Spectre fought him to a standstill at the dawn of time (though his was in a coma as a result).
6. Sinestro claimed to get his power from Parallax, but 1. The Qwardians built his ring from Qwardimite, and used super science to make it.
2. Had their own method to charge it, and 3. Since the 1960's (and the more recent Guy Gardner series) it's been made clear that
he can charge it from GL energy, Whenever he fights GLs, his ring gets recharged. If he needs "the power of fear", how does he get
a charge from it's DIRECT OPPOSITE? Also, how (and why) would the Qwadians tie the ring into a big yellow fear monster...
that exists in the POSITIVE matter universe?
7. If HJ was so easily controlled by Parallax before, why wasn't he possessed the second he used his ring to
put on his uniform? Why did he change it from his old design when he came back to life?

#5.
1. Again, nobody did anything to fight Parallax, Parallax just stood there. Why did Ganthet turn into a snake? Jordan didn't,
either when he was alive, or when he was the Specte?
2. Why is Batman still a complete ******* running the show? I ask this question all the time, but you know that already.
3. Why are HJ, KR, GG, JS and Kilowag suddenly using their rings, after the big deal about being possesed if they
used them?
4. How did Sinestro surivive in the vacuum of space when his ring broke, even if a few seconds? Since when
does breaking his ring send him back to Qward? Whenever his (many!) previous rings broke, he was captured
by GLs and put into a Sciencell on OA, until he managed to escape.
5. I guess Emerald Dawn was retconned out of existence... Arrogant or not, would Sinestro be stupid enough to
piss off a corp member by blowing up his jet? For no reason?

#6
1. Why diid Alan Scott and Jade stop everyone else helping take down Parallax? Obviously, Geoff Johns wanted
to make HJ look good, and the miniseries was about GLs but still, Parallax was a cosmic level threat
that might destroy the universe, or at least earth. Shouldn't they use all the firepower they've got?
2. Why cany't we see more people punch Batman and knock him on his ass more often?
3. Why do HJ and JS seem to think Batman is always right? He's an *******.
4. Why is GG so happy to have a ring again? In the past, it's been made clear that after quitting, he'll
never go back due to the corp for reasons of pride.
5. How did HJ expect to use his ring without a power battery? Pretty good coincidence his old battery
happened to be in his locker at Ferris... forgetting the fact Ferris was blown up with the rest of Coast
City BEFORE he became Parallax (Ollie said he got it after).
6. Why was Batman, the worldn' greatest detective, unable to notice THE BIG YELLOW FEAR MONSTER
spit out of the Spectre, who then possesed Ganthet? (Just so Geoff Johns could write Batman being an ass,
and getting punched by HJ. As much as I hate Batman nowadays, I'm still not sure I buy him getting punched
that easily since Grant Morrison declared him "Bat-god").


I did like Rebirth to a point, but a lot of the questions raised were never answered. I have a cursory knowledge
of GL from reading issues in the 80's, some of the Ron Marz stuff, and some of the Winick stuff. Geoff Johns
is supposed to be a big continuity guy... But I found tons of plotholes. On the first reading. Without being nit-picky.
I also felt it was too violent in some ways. Ollie shoot Sinestro through the chest, Kyle shoot MANY arrows through
Sinestro's body (non of which killed him or broke his concentration, by the way), and Hal breaking his
wrist. When Johns writes heroes and villians in JSA, Countdown, GL, whatever, he make them EXTREMELY,
out of characteristically violent... when characters would never do that (also see what he's done to the rogues
gallery in Flash... many readers claim it's a fun, light book. The hell? Also, he's done the worst. subplot. writing. evah.
in that book I'll explain maybe on Fiday)


And here's the second e-mail I wrote where I WAS nitpicky, unlike the first:
Couple more things about Rebirth:
Why was parallax too weak to do more than influence Jordan, but had the concentration/power to make a multi-color
solid Sinestro construct? If the Guardians didn't release Sinestro, why didn't they freak out when "he" walked
out of the battery? If it wasn't Sinestro, who was doing the dialgue for the entire issue of GL #49?

Why did Jordan talk about the ring choosing Kyle? Kyle TOLD him Ganthet was exhausted after coming
to earth, and gave the ring to the first random person he ran into, without checking to see if he was GL
material (hell, he could have chosen someone who could have turned into a supervillian.) Ganthet
never explained why he had to give it to a human, much less a random one, when he could have
just waited until he was more rested to pick a suitable candidate, then properly train them in the
use of the ring, as well as giving him the green rock/power battery, instead of dumping it on the
trash next to a bum. Instead, he gave it to "slacker boy" and written as an eternal rookie Kyle Rayner.
(stuff on DC: Countdown cut out)
I don't hate Geoff Johns writing per se... but he's too dark and violent. Also pretentious. I've heard fanboys
repeatedly praise him in his use in continuity... But he changes what he references on a whim,
 
Im not reading all of that, ill just assume he didnt like it.
 
I give up, it must really suck horribly to have that many arguments against it written. I dont even have to read it.
 
hahhahaha... its alright... hal fans got what they wanted, kyle is in a much more kick ass place now... so end result more or less satisfied as many people as possible...
 
Hey, Guy fans got what they wanted too. He rules again, and they gave him some damn respect, finally. Go Guy!
 
Doc Destruction said:
Hey, Guy fans got what they wanted too. He rules again, and they gave him some damn respect, finally. Go Guy!

Damn avy makes me imagine the little kitten saying that doing that gesture
 
wow....i just read shadowknights post, and i didn't know there were so much continuity errors in rebirth, still i liked it, even thou i think hal jordan is a ****ing arrogant and batman kicks ass, and i believe kyle is the best gl:up:
and btw, i'm glad i can allways trust the leaguer to make me laugh, thx, lol
 
Wow, SKnight, you brought up issues, I was just starting lead into....
Those things hella bugged me and I thought I was the only one who took notice of those.

Good points.


Shadowknight said:
I'm going to post my problems with the mini-series from an e-mail I wrote last year to a friend;

ebirth #1
1. Why did Parallax trash Warrior's and leave a statue of Hal Jordan behind?
2. Why did Alan Scott make the corp GL symbol? Parallax was trying to posses him,
but why the symbol?
3. Why is Batman still an ******* who runs the JLA, despite being an abusive psychopath
who hates everyone?
4. Jordan was supposed to have extreme willpower, to the point he turned the Spectre into
the Spirit of Redemption™, so why was he unable to control it anymore?
5. Was it really necessary for Geof Johns to write the particuarly gruesome scene with
Blackhand getting his hand turned to coal? Moreover, Blackhand went on about taking the
GL ring, instead of leaching of the power put out by GLs when fighting them. But the ring hadn't
been charged in what, 7 years, DC time? Ignoring the 24 hour time limit, residual energy would have
disappated LONG ago, moreover, I THINK he knew the power was really in the battery,
not the ring.
6. Why Parallax controlling the rings, despite not being in the central power battery anymore (of course,
he had the power of the Spectre, couldn't he posses ANYONE, not just GLs?) did he allow various rings
to warn the users that he was coming, to several GLs, across 2 or 3 issues
7. Why did he make Guy Gardner sick? Wouldn't it be better to have a Vuldarian GL as a pawn? He'd be
FAR more powerful than a measly human (Granted I HATED the vuldarian crap, but there were many
better ways to get rid of it, saying hypertime to make it go "poof" or ignore it, to having supervillians turn his power
off, to having the chemicals which turned him into an alien wear off, etc.)

#2
1. When John Stewart (JS) went on a rampage, he was angry, not afraid. If Parallax was a spirt if fear,
wouldn't JS be crazy with fear, instead of anger?
2. From a storytelling point, WHY turn GG into a GL again? There are now FOUR human GLs. Hal Jordan
(because sales were slipping), Kyle Rayner (to appease the fans who wanted him to be GL, and to not
kill him off), John Stewart (because of the tv show). I loved him as a GL, but that ship has sailed. It would
have been better to give him another yellow ring. Hell, Giffen and Demattis are making a great mystery going
on in JL: Classified involving his new ring, which may not or may not actually BE a ring, which also might be a sentient
entity or symbiot.
3. If Parallax only possesed people who used their ring, why was GG possesed? He was unconscious when
the duplicate landed on his finger. Of course, the only reason the ring duplicated was so the HJ could get it at
the end of number 4. Also, if the duplicate was charged, why wasn't the original one charged? Ollie had to
charge it in number 4 to get it to work.
4. Kilowag was under COMPLETE domination. Why were the other GLs only angry, instead of full out mind
controlled?
5. Why was Kyle Rayner immune (KR)? Shouldn't his lack of fearlessness make him MORE vulnerable to
fear, not less,?
6. Why was Ganthet in the coffin instead of just in the ship? Why didn't he heal/save KR from his injuries in
the spaceship crash? What was he doing in that coffin, and why did he let Kilowag beat up KR?
(if it involves Necrophilia, and having to put his dressback on, I DON'T want to know.)


#3
1. Why did Ganthet (G) fight Kilowag? The Guardians have easily handed Sinestro's ass to him before, so couldn't he
just turned off the ring the GUARDIANS DESIGNED AND MADE, pimpslapped Kilowag, and freed him from the mind control?
2. When did G get powerful enough to crack a planet open? GJ increased the power of the Guardians for no reason,
if they were THAT powerful, why have a GL corp in the first place?
3. If KR was "immune" to the mind control, why did he **** a brick about using his ring in #1-4, then start
using it hardcore in #5 and 6?
4. Since when was the GL corp powered by "the color of willpower? Wouldn't collecting it throughout the universe
turn the beings into mindless, will-less sheep? (a stupid concept, but moving on). Before, the
orgins were a combination of superscience, and the energies of OA, the center of the universe, which helped
power the Central battery (later it was retconned into magic crystals, but that's beside the point). Why were the
Guadian STUPID enough to imprison a fear monster in their central battery? Why not just create a separate prison,
instead of being stuck with ONLY fearless beings being capable of using the power ring (also, rings have been
stolen and used by NON-fearless being in the past), and that made the ring vulnerable to the color yellow?
More over, it was previously established the ring NEEDED the yellow weakness to function (HJ was once given
a filter for his ring by an alien which made his ring impervious to the color yellow. The ring was permanently broken,
because it NEEDED the yellow impurity to work).
5. If Parallax was capable of taking over ANYONE, why influence HJ? Why not dominate him completely, like
with GG, JS, and Kilowag?
6. Hals' body: Why did they retrieve it? The Guardians (and power rings) have never had the power to resurrect people,
moreover, until this mini-series, Parallax had NEVER manifested himself since HJ merged with the Spectre. So why the
worry? When did they find out about the rings being controlled by Parallax? So why get the body? (answer, to conveniently
get resurrected for no reason in #4). Also, how did Hal die? He expended his power to reignite the sun in Final Night.
If his body was held together by residual energies, why wasn't he crispy-fried? How did he die if he wasn't
incinerated? Moreover,when KR became Ion, he sucked up all of the GL energy left in the sun.
How come the energy holding Hals body together not get absorbed, destroying his body?

#4
1. How did Sinestro conveniently know about Hal's body? Why was he there to destroy it? To prevent Parallax
being sucked out of the Spectre if Jordan was resurrected? Never explained.
2. Where has Sinestro been since Emerald Twilight? Chilling in the Caribbean? If he was on Qward, WHY would
he let the Qwardians give one of his rings to a punk like Alex Nero?
3. Also, GG had stolen Sinestro's power ring from his corpse on OA (another continuity error, but beside the point).
HOW did he get off planet? I'm not sure OA has any spaceships, with all the power rings. Parallax didn't do
it, since he was only influencing Jordan at this point, and I'm sure he would have been confused about Sinestro,
whose neck he had just broken, asking for a ride to Qward (or the Carribean)
4. The heroes were neither written nor drawn to actually seem afraid of Parallax, so why were they just standing there? Why didn't
Parallax bother to actually attack, instead of just standing there?
5. Why did the Spectre punk out? Last issue, he had made a big deal about merging with HJ to free him from Parallax,
who he wanted to destroy for being an abomination in "God's universe"
6. How did Jordan come back to life? Again, Guardians can't resurrect, plus Ganthet seemed to do nothing more than show Jordan
a nice shiny green ball. So what, stepping into his body started his cardiovascular system again?
7. It was claimed that Ganthet was even more powerful than the Spectre... The guardians had their ass kicked by the Anti-monitor
ealy in Crises, Spectre fought him to a standstill at the dawn of time (though his was in a coma as a result).
6. Sinestro claimed to get his power from Parallax, but 1. The Qwardians built his ring from Qwardimite, and used super science to make it.
2. Had their own method to charge it, and 3. Since the 1960's (and the more recent Guy Gardner series) it's been made clear that
he can charge it from GL energy, Whenever he fights GLs, his ring gets recharged. If he needs "the power of fear", how does he get
a charge from it's DIRECT OPPOSITE? Also, how (and why) would the Qwadians tie the ring into a big yellow fear monster...
that exists in the POSITIVE matter universe?
7. If HJ was so easily controlled by Parallax before, why wasn't he possessed the second he used his ring to
put on his uniform? Why did he change it from his old design when he came back to life?

#5.
1. Again, nobody did anything to fight Parallax, Parallax just stood there. Why did Ganthet turn into a snake? Jordan didn't,
either when he was alive, or when he was the Specte?
2. Why is Batman still a complete ******* running the show? I ask this question all the time, but you know that already.
3. Why are HJ, KR, GG, JS and Kilowag suddenly using their rings, after the big deal about being possesed if they
used them?
4. How did Sinestro surivive in the vacuum of space when his ring broke, even if a few seconds? Since when
does breaking his ring send him back to Qward? Whenever his (many!) previous rings broke, he was captured
by GLs and put into a Sciencell on OA, until he managed to escape.
5. I guess Emerald Dawn was retconned out of existence... Arrogant or not, would Sinestro be stupid enough to
piss off a corp member by blowing up his jet? For no reason?

#6
1. Why diid Alan Scott and Jade stop everyone else helping take down Parallax? Obviously, Geoff Johns wanted
to make HJ look good, and the miniseries was about GLs but still, Parallax was a cosmic level threat
that might destroy the universe, or at least earth. Shouldn't they use all the firepower they've got?
2. Why cany't we see more people punch Batman and knock him on his ass more often?
3. Why do HJ and JS seem to think Batman is always right? He's an *******.
4. Why is GG so happy to have a ring again? In the past, it's been made clear that after quitting, he'll
never go back due to the corp for reasons of pride.
5. How did HJ expect to use his ring without a power battery? Pretty good coincidence his old battery
happened to be in his locker at Ferris... forgetting the fact Ferris was blown up with the rest of Coast
City BEFORE he became Parallax (Ollie said he got it after).
6. Why was Batman, the worldn' greatest detective, unable to notice THE BIG YELLOW FEAR MONSTER
spit out of the Spectre, who then possesed Ganthet? (Just so Geoff Johns could write Batman being an ass,
and getting punched by HJ. As much as I hate Batman nowadays, I'm still not sure I buy him getting punched
that easily since Grant Morrison declared him "Bat-god").


I did like Rebirth to a point, but a lot of the questions raised were never answered. I have a cursory knowledge
of GL from reading issues in the 80's, some of the Ron Marz stuff, and some of the Winick stuff. Geoff Johns
is supposed to be a big continuity guy... But I found tons of plotholes. On the first reading. Without being nit-picky.
I also felt it was too violent in some ways. Ollie shoot Sinestro through the chest, Kyle shoot MANY arrows through
Sinestro's body (non of which killed him or broke his concentration, by the way), and Hal breaking his
wrist. When Johns writes heroes and villians in JSA, Countdown, GL, whatever, he make them EXTREMELY,
out of characteristically violent... when characters would never do that (also see what he's done to the rogues
gallery in Flash... many readers claim it's a fun, light book. The hell? Also, he's done the worst. subplot. writing. evah.
in that book I'll explain maybe on Fiday)


And here's the second e-mail I wrote where I WAS nitpicky, unlike the first:
Couple more things about Rebirth:
Why was parallax too weak to do more than influence Jordan, but had the concentration/power to make a multi-color
solid Sinestro construct? If the Guardians didn't release Sinestro, why didn't they freak out when "he" walked
out of the battery? If it wasn't Sinestro, who was doing the dialgue for the entire issue of GL #49?

Why did Jordan talk about the ring choosing Kyle? Kyle TOLD him Ganthet was exhausted after coming
to earth, and gave the ring to the first random person he ran into, without checking to see if he was GL
material (hell, he could have chosen someone who could have turned into a supervillian.) Ganthet
never explained why he had to give it to a human, much less a random one, when he could have
just waited until he was more rested to pick a suitable candidate, then properly train them in the
use of the ring, as well as giving him the green rock/power battery, instead of dumping it on the
trash next to a bum. Instead, he gave it to "slacker boy" and written as an eternal rookie Kyle Rayner.
(stuff on DC: Countdown cut out)
I don't hate Geoff Johns writing per se... but he's too dark and violent. Also pretentious. I've heard fanboys
repeatedly praise him in his use in continuity... But he changes what he references on a whim,
 
I've said it before, I'll say it again...

I'll take an iffy retcon to fix a stupid character decision any day of the week.

Rebirth was GREAT, even with the fear demon aspect, and it brought the GL corps to my attention for the first time ever, so it did it's job.
 
Doc Destruction said:
I'll take an iffy retcon to fix a stupid character decision any day of the week.
Unfortunately, with Rebirth, we just got a new stupid character decision.
 
Not in my book. I like all 4 Lanterns and I'm glad to see them all still kicking.
 

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