Harley Quinn Girl-Gang Movie Based on "Birds of Prey"

[Juan1193]

But none of those characters really belong in a Birds of Prey movie. Maybe Tarantula but I have no interest in seeing that character in live action. And Cassandra? It makes no sense to introduce her in the same movie that were introduced to the first Batgirl

Racebending doesn’t sound that bad for this movie, I think it’d be a wise move

Also what good does it do? It will establish these characters as people of color in the general audience’s mind. This will most likely be the most exposure a lot of these characters will ever get. I’m thinking that the characters most likely to be racebent are Catwoman, Huntress, and Black Canary. For one of those characters, there’s already a precedent, seeing as Eartha Kitt and Halle Berry have both played Catwoman.

Katana, Hawkgirl and Vixen have all been a part of the BOP before, so them being used isn't out of the blue. In the case of the former it'd be easy to use her since she's already cast (Karen Fukahara). I mentioned Tarantula because Latinos are so underserved in superhero movies that her appearing might bring an eager audience looking for representation (ala El Diablo for SS and hopefully Pedro Pena for Shazam).

They raceswapped Deadshot and Aquaman. And guess what? They're still White everywhere else (comics, tv shows, animation, video games...etc).

PS: This is the JLD debate all over again (including Dr Mist/ Black Orchid instead of race swapping Deadman/Zatanna) lol

 

[Primal Slayer]

Harley doesnt belong in a Birds of Prey movie.

At least Vixen has been a member.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

At least Vixen has been a member.

Would they be okay to use Vixen? What's her current status on the CW shows?

 

[jmc]

Why the hell does it matter? Inclusion is inclusion. Nobody batted an eye when Will Smith played Deadshot.

It can also be pandering. You're going to have argue a good case for having a non-Italian actresses play a character who's name and roots are as Italian as you can get. The reality is the main characters in both BoP and GCS are the ethnicity they are. Changing the ethnicities solves nothing and only aggravates people. Believe it or not, there are people from minority communities who dislike the idea of changing an existing characters nationality or ethnicity as much as everyone else. It's no different to the whitewashing people have complained about.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Would they be okay to use Vixen? What's her current status on the CW shows?

Yeah, when it comes to films they can have whoever they want (Barry/Clark/etc..).

Mari has spent 99% of her time in the animated world of like 12 mins. Her mother is no longer on the show though the actress is coming back as a new character.

 

[Primal Slayer]

It can also be pandering. You're going to have argue a good case for having a non-Italian actresses play a character who's name and roots are as Italian as you can get. The reality is the main characters in both BoP and GCS are the ethnicity they are. Changing the ethnicities solves nothing and only aggravates people. Believe it or not, there are people from minority communities who dislike the idea of changing an existing characters nationality or ethnicity as much as everyone else. It's no different to the whitewashing people have complained about.

Since when in Hollywood do Italian characters have to be played by Italian actors?

Helena has been reimagined as a woman of color in Rebirth but still retains her Italian heritage.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Here’s a hypothetical situation:

Say Margot or Cathy or WB execs have mandated that there be a certain number of minorities in lead roles in the film.

Would you rather see characters like Katana or Tarantula take the spotlight over classic Birds of Prey characters like Black Canary or Huntress? Or would you rather see those classic characters racebent? I’d go for the latter for sure. Racebending can be and has been done well so many times. I’ve got no issue with it.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Yeah, when it comes to films they can have whoever they want (Barry/Clark/etc..).

Mari has spent 99% of her time in the animated world of like 12 mins. Her mother is no longer on the show though the actress is coming back as a new character.

Okay

I know there are two Flash's and now two Superman's, but I thought that generally if they wanted to use a character in the DCEU that's currently on the CW they pulled them from the show first (Suicide Squad, Waller, Deathstroke).

(Btw, I enjoyed that animated Vixen: The Movie)

 

[Primal Slayer]

They usually use TheCW to help introduce characters to the general and then put embargos on them reappearing in the shows which is stupid as hell. They did attempt to cancel Smallville when they were ready to do Superman Returns.

 

[jmc]

Since when in Hollywood do Italian characters have to be played by Italian actors?

Helena has been reimagined as a woman of color in Rebirth but still retains her Italian heritage.

And it still doesn't solve the problem. If you want more diverse casts you need to start creating more diverse characters. The problem DC and Marvel have is they have popular characters who were written decades ago at a time when the population skewed more towards a particular ethnicity, so of course they were going to create characters that were marketed primarily to that audience. Times have obviously changed, but changing ethnicities, or sexualities, or religions, or whatever to existing characters for the sake of being more reflective of modern society is a band aid solution to a much more complex problem, one that requires significant investments in time and money. Just because a character is Caucasian doesn't mean it's right to change their ethnicity any more than it is to change the ethnicity of someone who is Asian or African to that of another which is what so many people have complained about in the past.

The solution is to create new characters. Of course, it means companies like DC and Marvel have to invest in new heroes, but it also means the audiences need to do their part too and actually buy into said new characters, and that takes time, years even. Does that mean having to wait a bit longer for that diverse cast of heroes people want? Well, yeah, but that's the tradeoff. The current 'solution' is a half baked way to seem like change is happening without it actually changing anything, because ultimately you're left with a third of the audience who become irrationally pissed off, a third of the audience who are supportive yet don't see their own hypocrisy, and the other third who don't want to get involved in the argument either way.

 

[Primal Slayer]

DC and Marvel create plenty of new characters and out of those how many end up actually stick around and make an actual name for themselves? DC has like 400 existing white/straight characters, it doesnt hurt them to change their look or sexuality if it still is the character we know in the end. Not to mention that we do have a multiverse where a lot of these characters have different races.

I can admit that I like my characters to be adapted as closely as possible from their comic counterparts but I also understand the need to change some of these characters because newer names most of the time just dont make the cut.

It's hard to compare Causcasian characters to those of Asian or African since the representation is not even close to equal but Hollywood has still made the time to whitewash PLENTY of characters. At least its time to even out the playing field.

 

[jmc]

According to whom? Film twitter? Here's the thing, you know how animosity gets created? When you try and force change like what you're suggesting. You know when it doesn't? When you leave what was created alone and do something different. Not to mention that you're enforcing change on behalf of communities no-one has consulted with. How about instead of treating people like they are infants and giving them hand me down heroes we actually ask them what type of characters they'd like to see and create those to be more reflective of today's societies? Heaven forbid we, you know, do some actual study and hard work to make proper change.

 

[Primal Slayer]

When you can get Hollywood to do that then more power to you. But it aint gonna happen. And yes you can't compare racebending a white character to racebending a minority character since the amount of racebending white characters to be a minority is still slim.

They can barely get whitewashing under control.

 

[jmc]

When you can get Hollywood to do that then more power to you. But it aint gonna happen.

They can barely get whitewashing under control.

I'm involved with a company that thinks otherwise. I'll let you know how they go.

 

[Primal Slayer]

But do I think they should consider putting in Vixen (or just adding her to the team in general) before putting in Black Canary and racebending her? Totally. Will I be initially disappointed if they racebend Black Canary and she doesnt look like the Dinah I know? (though Halle Berry would've made looked like and couldve been a great Selina Kyle) Yeah. Will I automatically reject the character when I see the movie? No. Will I be pissed if they change everything about the character down to who I know her to be? Yeah.

 

[Juan1193]

According to whom? Film twitter? Here's the thing, you know how animosity gets created? When you try and force change like what you're suggesting. You know when it doesn't? When you leave what was created alone and do something different. Not to mention that you're enforcing change on behalf of communities no-one has consulted with. How about instead of treating people like they are infants and giving them hand me down heroes we actually ask them what type of characters they'd like to see and create those to be more reflective of today's societies? Heaven forbid we, you know, do some actual study and hard work to make proper change.

As a Latino, and I know I can't speak for every Latino, but I'd rather see original characters brought to life in live action, instead of getting stuck with a White character being portrayed by a Latino. So more El Diablo's and Pedro Peña's. I hope to someday see a racially accurate Bane, plus Jessica Cruz and Blue Beetle, as well as more obscure caharacters like Tarantula, Black Orchid, Sideways..etc too. One can hope right?

 

[HBarnill]

As a Latino, and I know I can't speak for every Latino, but I'd rather see original characters brought to life in live action, instead of getting stuck with a White character being portrayed by a Latino. So more El Diablo's and Pedro Peña's. I hope to someday see a racially accurate Bane, plus Jessica Cruz and Blue Beetle, as well as more obscure caharacters like Tarantula, Black Orchid, Sideways..etc too. One can hope right?

In the meantime, racebending is a necessary thing to do. Minorities, meaning POC and the LGBT community, are angrier than ever these days, and for good reasons. They need to see themselves on screen to be represented, to feel they’re not alone. Remember the feeling women and people of color had when Wonder Woman and Black Panther came out? They felt vindicated. They felt seen. They were massive juggernauts in the media. I’m not saying diversity means great movies but it doesn’t hurt either.

 

[jmc]

In the meantime, racebending is a necessary thing to do. Minorities, meaning POC and the LGBT community, are angrier than ever these days, and for good reasons. They need to see themselves on screen to be represented, to feel they’re not alone. Remember the feeling women and people of color had when Wonder Woman and Black Panther came out? They felt vindicated. They felt seen. They were massive juggernauts in the media. I’m not saying diversity means great movies but it doesn’t hurt either.

But those characters have also been that gender and ethnicity for their existence. You didn't have to change who they've always been. You're advocating changing these things for a particular group under the misguided notion that's what minority communities want. You're making the decision for them, you're not asking them what it is they want.

 

[Micromind]

I think Margot will have non super-powered characters in the movie, so forget about Vixen, Zatanna or Hawkgirl.


Catwoman, Huntress, Black Canary, Katana and Poison Ivy have greater chance of appearing in the movie .

 

[HBarnill]

But those characters have also been that gender and ethnicity for their existence. You didn't have to change who they've always been. You're advocating changing these things for a particular group under the misguided notion that's what minority communities want. You're making the decision for them, you're not asking them what it is they want.

My point is that those films let these communities be seen and they were successes for everyone to enjoy. Look at Hamilton. It was racebended because Lin Manuel Miranda was sick of the lack of diversity in art in general and wanted to tell a story with actors representing modern America. In that context, making those historical characters white would’ve been detrimental to the message he wanted to tell.

Now, admittedly, racebending Deadshot isn’t exactly comparable to that but it does allow for barriers to be broken and for more actors to be cast. Talent is blind. If we only limit them to those who are white, we are missing out on a lot of great talent.

 

[Primal Slayer]

You are never going to reach majority of the population. But hey there were A LOT of people who were perfectly fine with Tessa Thompson as Valkyrie.

But if we have the decision of either racebending X character and getting a movie next year vs. playing the waiting game for another 20 years to get a POC character adapted properly, what should we choose?

 

[jmc]

My point is that those films let these communities be seen and they were successes for everyone to enjoy. Look at Hamilton. It was racebended because Lin Manuel Miranda was sick of the lack of diversity in art in general and wanted to tell a story with actors representing modern America. In that context, making those historical characters white would’ve been detrimental to the message he wanted to tell.

Now, admittedly, racebending Deadshot isn’t exactly comparable to that but it does allow for barriers to be broken and for more actors to be cast. Talent is blind. If we only limit them to those who are white, we are missing out on a lot of great talent.

Context of course is key if you're doing gender bending or race swapping, there is a time and place where that can be used to good effect. But there's no logical reason to do it within comic books for existing character. And again, you're not taking into account what these communities want out of this. You're saying to do it regardless of what they want. You're overlooking that people have pride in who they are and don't necessarily like the ideas you're proposing, that they might not want second-hand Huntress or Black Canary. In a sense, you want to kill them with kindness and not taking into account people, regardless of their background, don't like being treated like they are weak.

 

[Fincher]

Here’s a hypothetical situation:

Say Margot or Cathy or WB execs have mandated that there be a certain number of minorities in lead roles in the film.

Would you rather see characters like Katana or Tarantula take the spotlight over classic Birds of Prey characters like Black Canary or Huntress? Or would you rather see those classic characters racebent? I’d go for the latter for sure. Racebending can be and has been done well so many times. I’ve got no issue with it.

Depends on the character. Huntress I'm not all that concerned about racebending to begin with. I mean, if the movie was for me and me alone, I'd choose for a white version to be in the movie, but if she gets changed, then she gets changed. Batgirl I'm less concerned about, personally.

Black Canary I'd like to stay white and blonde. If we're just talking about this movie, then a POC version not being here still allows for the possibility for her to show up later. Even if her not getting racebent means she's out of the DCEU entirely (or whatever you want to call what they're doing now), she could still show up down the line. And if she's black/Asian/whatever in the DCEU, then maybe the general public comes to think of her as a person of color, and the white blonde version never shows up onscreen again. So...sure, bring on Tarantula or whoever. I'll take my chances holding out for a white version.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

What the movie studios should do is debatable, but the reality is we're not going to get an all white cast.

So, to me, it's best to think about which characters make for the best story, and then race-bend later if necessary. Subbing out races is better than subbing out characters imo.

 

[jmc]

It's not necessary though.