Daredevil Has anyone seen Frank Miller recently?

[Dasher10]

As in, have you seen pics where it's obvious that he spent 2012 undergoing chemotherapy and now he looks decades older. I feel like if there's any time for a cameo, it's now while he's still breathing.

Please Marvel, do this. Thank you.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

or, alternativly, just ignore that there where times when that misogynist fascist had anything to do with DD

 

[Man in the Suit]

No denying the work in his prime is legendary, but he's a crazy person and I don't want a cameo.

 

[Mike Murdock]

or, alternativly, just ignore that there where times when that misogynist fascist had anything to do with DD

And ignore frankly among the best DD has. I think Miller went off the deep end. But his original run and Born Again are among the best comics have ever had to offer. I enjoy TMWOF, but I'll agree you can start to see the signs of what's to come. But it's hard to ignore what he did originally.

 

[Syncos]

It's hard to deny the impact he had on the character, but in terms of Daredevil stories, I think I like the Bendis and Brubaker runs better.

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

I feel the same way.

 

[cryptic name]

or, alternativly, just ignore that there where times when that misogynist fascist had anything to do with DD

Frank Miller's contribution to Daredevil is absolutely impossible to ignore. You don't like to like the man or all of his art to acknowledge that, but it is undeniable that the character is what it is because of Miller.

 

[Dasher10]

or, alternativly, just ignore that there where times when that misogynist fascist had anything to do with DD

Look at how brave you are, poking fun at a man with lung cancer.

Man Without Fear, Born Again, Elektra Assassin, Elektra Lives Again, Love and War and his original run of issues 158-191 are some of the best Daredevil stories of all time. Season 1 was an adaptation of Man Without Fear. You can dislike his political views all you like but you can't deny that the man has some serious talent.

Even apart from Daredevil, the man is responsible for Sin City, Batman: Year One, Ronin, The Dark Knight Returns, Give Me Liberty and 300. He's considered a comics legend for a reason.

Yukio Mishima was also a radical right-winger. Does that make his plays and novels also without any sort of merit?

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

Look at how brave you are, poking fun at a man with lung cancer.

and I missed the part where I poked fun at him. He IS a misogynist fascist. Stating that is not poking fun at him it's stating facts.

And the cancer has nothing to with him being an insane a$$hole. his body of work, in fact, has nothing to with him being an insane a$§hole. but him being the insane a$$hole that he is gives me every right to state rightfully that he is what he is.

so even if you don't agree that I'm not poking fun at him, please accept that if I'm poking fun at him, then I'm poking fun at an insane a$$hole (who happens to have lung cancer) and not at a man with lung cancer. That's very important to me. Because I feel deeply offended by you suggesting otherwise

 

[craigaat]

I don't understand how anyone can dislike a person they've never met.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I don't understand how anyone can dislike a person they've never met.

I've never met Donald Trump... But I dislike him.

 

[craigaat]

Whatever, mate. Enjoy your life wasting time disliking people you'll never meet.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Whatever, mate. Enjoy your life wasting time disliking people you'll never meet.

Oh the vapid silly obtuseness of that position. Carry on.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

Whatever, mate. Enjoy your life wasting time disliking people you'll never meet.

you know the saying:
every stranger is just a person you haven't punched in face yet

 

[Lord]

or, alternativly, just ignore that there where times when that misogynist fascist had anything to do with DD

Without Frank Miller, Daredevil wouldn't be in the spot it is right now, before he started writing the series, it was near cancelation. His influence is visible in every story that followed, not to mention that he was the one who introduced Elektra and made Kingpin Daredevil's main villain.

 

[Lilbaz]

Don't know much about his personal life. Why is he considered a misogynist and facist?

 

[Mike Murdock]

I can't speak for his personal life, but his comics changed over time to become more extreme (almost a caricature of himself). This led to the stereotype of his work involving scantily-clad prostitutes getting murdered and superheroes espousing hyper right-wing political beliefs. I know he wanted to work on Captain America once, which I'm glad he didn't because he would have destroyed the character and turned him into a neo-con bent on revenge after September 11.

That being said, his Daredevil through Born Again shows none of that. Daredevil tends to be an ambiguous probably slightly left-wing character when it comes to politics. His views are that of a hero who believes in truth and justice and doesn't kill. When Captain America shows up in Born Again, he remains the same genuine character we're used to who makes a defiant stand against government corruption.

Now by the time Man Without Fear comes around, you see signs of change. The story is far more violent and Matt's attitude is more ambivalent. He kills people in self-defense but it's clear the driving force is his rage, which leads to the killing of, who else, a prostitute. This criticism is tempered with the fact that it isn't really gratuitous; it serves the story and is trying to illustrate why he doesn't do these things as Daredevil. But when all his work trends in that direction, a pattern starts to emerge.

 

[Yellow Cyclone]

fascist is debatable

but i don't believe he's a misogynist because he draws beautiful women (which is a noir thing) in his work

every interview i've seen from sin city 1/2, and the spirit has the female actresses saying they loved working with frank and the female characters he created

 

[Yellow Cyclone]

also, it would be great to see a frank cameo, who cares about his politics anyway? it's a stupid petty reason

claremont got a cameo in x3, and miller is just as important to daredevil as CC was to the x-men

 

[TheVileOne]

I could be wrong, but at times didn't The Dark Knight Returns come off like a satire against conservatism and the Reagan era? I didn't get the sense that Miller was a fan of Reagan or Republicans or ultra conservatives in Dark Knight Returns. If anything, weren't they the antagonists in that book? Also seemed like DK2 was a satire against post-9/11 Bush era.

Holy Terror is unquestionably awful, just seems that Miller isn't always pro conservative neo-con etc.

Like it or not, but it's really Frank Miller's work that made Daredevil an iconic and memorable character. He essentially redefined Daredevil and the Kingpin making them the iconic characters they are now.

 

[Lord]

Is there even a pre-Miller Daredevil story that is often recommended? Only ones i can think of are the first few issues due to being what introduced his character as well as that Namor story where he was defeated but showed heart against a foe who was leaps and bounds beyond him. Even then, i don't remember any of them being all that worth reading, Miller's Daredevil is pretty much the heart of the entire franchise.

 

[Mike Murdock]

The very first issue and the issue with Namor. Otherwise, yeah, there's practically nothing. Don't get me wrong, there are stories with redeeming qualities, but I'm all the way through the death of Mike Murdock (may he rest in peace) and I'm not sure there's any story that stands on the level of the first story with Elektra, to name an example. That being said, when I get to Jim Shooter and Roger McKenzie, that may change.

 

[TheVileOne]

And no disrespect to Bendis and Maleev, they did some good work with the character. However, I also think their stories got a little too overwrought and wordy at times. And don't tell me there was never criticism as such in the heyday of Bendis' DD run.

IMHO, all Bendis and Maleev ever did was really build off the groundwork lain by previous creators and never really made the material their own like Miller did and open up a whole new world of possibilities for Daredevil.

Just remember, without Frank Miller, there's no Stick or Elektra. Or Kingpin as Daredevil's great adversary or a more serious character. I get that it's chic to hate on Miller and his work these days. And personally, I'm not a fan of his more recent modern work, but let's not suddenly pretend the landmark work he did on characters like Daredevil, Batman etc. back in the 80s was meaningless and not revolutionary for its time and also critically praised for years.

 

[Lord]

Now by the time Man Without Fear comes around, you see signs of change. The story is far more violent and Matt's attitude is more ambivalent. He kills people in self-defense but it's clear the driving force is his rage, which leads to the killing of, who else, a prostitute. This criticism is tempered with the fact that it isn't really gratuitous; it serves the story and is trying to illustrate why he doesn't do these things as Daredevil. But when all his work trends in that direction, a pattern starts to emerge.

To be honest, i didn't find that part all that well handled, felt more like a gimmicky way to have Daredevil dislike killing, and he does do a lot of stuff later on in the story that leads some goons to die. Man Without Fear has some great stuff, but it realy shows Miller starting to get crazier.

With the Netflix show having taken from Man without Fear so much, i realy hope the rest of Frank Miller's original run, as well as Born Again, are eventualy adapted.

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

I'll be shocked if they don't adapt Born Again.