Daredevil Has anyone seen Frank Miller recently?

[The Overlord]

In fairness, the only villains Miller invented were the Hand (and Kirigi). He reinvented Kingpin for Daredevil and relied heavily on Bullseye. Ann Nocenti invented three noteworthy villains, imo (Typhoid Mary, Bushwhacker, and Bullet) with several others who were adequate to show up again but nothing special (Ammo, the Wildboys, Shotgun). In the scene where Daredevil nearly dies (which is an awesome scene, btw), it's clear that Nocenti is going from the strongest threat (Bushwhacker) to the weakest (the Wildboys), but Daredevil is so beat up he can't stand up to them.

None but Typhoid Mary were used effectively since, but I don't think that's fair to the original characters. Bendis used most villains terribly. I almost think it was a point of pride for him. Shotgun was the worst offender of the bunch, imo. I didn't even recognize that he was supposed to be the same guy.

Miller did make Elektra as well, who can be a villain sometimes.

I would argue that Bushwacker had been used well after Nocenti, there was a DD annual in 1994, where Bushwacker was hired by a drug lord to kill Ben Urich, decided to let Urich live so he can his story on the drug lord and then killed the drug lord when he bribed his way out of his prison, just to prove to Urich that the system doesn't work. He just hasn't been used real well since the 90s.

To me that is the best Bushwacker story, because it is about what makes him tick, rather then being in the story as someone for DD to fight and that's it. To me religious fanatic Bushwacker is better then him having the exact same personality as Bullseye, it makes him more unique.

https://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/2390533.html

I agree with about bullet though, interesting concept with very little real follow through, so he comes off as generic when he doesn't have to.

I also agree about Bendis and villains in general, besides Purple Man, most B-list villains seem weaker and dumber under his pen, Mr. Hyde had one his worst showings under Bendis (though that's par for the course with Hyde, he goes from dangerous to a joke depending entirely on who is writing him.)

I do think the Wildboys could be interesting, but you would almost have to recreate them from the ground up to make them the work the I suggested and I suppose some writer might find it easier to just create a new street gang to fill the role I suggested. As they stand now, there is no real reason to use them again.

I think some better writing and focus many of the Nocenti vilains, besides Mary, can be good reoccurring villains. I think DD's rogues gallery needs a top to bottom shake up, still use the Miller era villains, but don't have them hog all the spotlight and use a combination of the stronger Silver Age villains, the Nocneti villains and some new villains (Ikari is likely the best new DD villain seen in decades and Soule seems to want to bring in some new villains as well.)

Some of the Silver Age villains have used well within the last decade, Owl has gotten a lot of stories, he kinda has a hit or miss record as a villain. Brubkaer used Mr. Fear well in 2008 and the story really needs a follow up. Purple Man has been a dangerous foe for various heroes for over a decade.

 

[Dasher10]

He also invented, who has been one of the most central Daredevil characters.

Who invented what?

 

[Lord]

Ups, meant Elektra

 

[Dasher10]

I also forgot that Frank Miller invented Nuke.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Nuke was fairly throwaway.

Elektra is pretty good, but I don't know about central. She appeared in one epic section of Miller's run and then went away under D.G. Chichester took over (Miller's request was for her to never to be used again without him writing, which, if he wanted that, he shouldn't have brought her back to life). After that, it's not like she was back every issue. Chichester used her for Fall From Grace. The next time she appeared in present day was with Brian Michael Bendis.

Compare her to Black Widow and I suspect Natasha's role is much greater.

 

[Dasher10]

Nuke was fairly throwaway.

Elektra is pretty good, but I don't know about central. She appeared in one epic section of Miller's run and then went away under D.G. Chichester took over (Miller's request was for her to never to be used again without him writing, which, if he wanted that, he shouldn't have brought her back to life). After that, it's not like she was back every issue. Chichester used her for Fall From Grace. The next time she appeared in present day was with Brian Michael Bendis.

Compare her to Black Widow and I suspect Natasha's role is much greater.

Actually, that isn't true. Elektra went away under Nocenti while Miller first wrote a miniseries starring Elektra. Then he wrote Elektra lives again where he killed her off once again as well as Bullseye.

One problem. Nocenti was using Bullseye at the same time which created a continuity problem which was particularly sticky considering that Elektra Lives Again is a really, really, really good story.

Dan Chichester was tasked with resolving this in his run and did it in the absolute laziest possible way by simply declaring Elektra Lives Again to be non-canon. Despite the potential for a story where Elektra faked her death to keep Matt away from her so he wouldn't be in danger and Bullseye used a body double, he just retconned one of the two best Daredevil writers by that point in time because it was the easy way out.

That's not getting into how Matt's evil doppelganger from Infinity War suddenly started talking with an African accent for no apparent reason. The man did so much damage to the property that even the well regarded Karl Kessel and Joe Kelly runs didn't improve sales in the slightest.

 

[Mike Murdock]

I will say this: His heart was in the right place. I hate the latter half of his run and don't really care for the former half, but the guy was a Daredevil fan. Maybe that's proof that being a fan doesn't matter so much, I don't know, but I'll give the guy somewhat of a benefit of the doubt even if most of Chichester's run is bad.

 

[Dasher10]

I will say this: His heart was in the right place. I hate the latter half of his run and don't really care for the former half, but the guy was a Daredevil fan. Maybe that's proof that being a fan doesn't matter so much, I don't know, but I'll give the guy somewhat of a benefit of the doubt even if most of Chichester's run is bad.

More generous than I'd say. The only praise I have is that Scott McDaniel's art was gorgeous. There's a reason why 90s Daredevil has the same reputation as the 90s Fantastic Four and 90s Spider-Man as Marvel's worst material of the time. (Before people start getting defensive, I did enjoy the late 90s Chris Claremont FF, late 90s Kevin Smith Daredevil and Spider-Man both up through Maximum Carnage and after John Byrne's relaunch. I'm not mentioning 90s Avengers comics since it's only The Crossing and Heroes Reborn which sucked. Galactic Storm, the Infinity trilogy and Kurt Busiek's run are all classic and even The Gatherers was pretty good.)

 

[Mike Murdock]

Well, notice that nothing I said is a comment on the quality (except to say some of his early work isn't as God-awful as Fall from Grace). I just said the guy liked the character. It's apparent in Last Rites, which is a tribute to Born Again.