World Has Spidey been strategically de-throned as Marvels flagship character?

[Dark Raven]

Started in the late 70s, but more than half of it is in the 80s
Thanks for the info bit, I remember all of it done in the 80s

Not really. Michellinie and Layton's first run started on Iron Man #116, which was 1978 and ended with Iron Man #157, which is 1982. They were already winding down after Iron Man #150 which was 1981, and most of the issues after that, at least after about #154 seemed like filler stuff where you could tell they had lost interest. Layton wasn't even always inking the book by then. The classic "Demon in a Bottle" storyline was in the 70s and was the most iconic part of their first run.

Their second run was from Iron Man #215 which was 1987, and ended with Iron Man #250 which was the very end of 1989.

 

[Shikamaru]

To answer the thread's question, no. I don't feel that Marvel is pushing Iron Man too hard. I think Spider-Man is not as in the front as he should be and that makes Iron Man feel more present than he really is. Another way to put it is that Iron Man is currently the "top dog" by default since Spidey's been out of the game for a while.

Long story short, Spidey has taken a step back due to the low-quality of storytelling he's had since 2007. 2007 was a horrendous year for Spidey with OMD ruining him in the comics and Spider-Man 3 ruining him in the movies. That left a gap in the "hottest thing now" category Marvel-wise. And what character was there to fill that gap not too long after that? Iron Man. The success of his movie not only elevated him to an A-list Marvel character in popularity, but also filled in the desire for fun and complex storytelling people used to get from Spider-Man.

Things have stayed that way since then but only because Spidey is still currently out of the game. His comics are still poorly written at the moment (and no, Superior is not good; end of story). In the movies, he's been out of the spotlight for years. TASM came out last year but I wouldn't count it since it was a reboot that was redoing the origin and came out in between TA and TDKR.

Once they start making great Spider-Man films again and tell great stories with him in the comics again, I feel that things will revert to Spidey being the biggest Marvel thing again. I really don't think Marvel's most iconic character will loose that status after just a few years despite him holding that title for decades.

In my opinion, all it would take for Spidey to regain his status is a Spider-Man film on the same level of quality as something like TDK/The Avengers. The reason for this is because we sadly live in a society where the film medium is seen as superior to all the other mediums. That's why Batman's been the top dog for years (the Nolan films) and why Iron Man is so big right now. In many ways, one single film that just blows people away is enough to revert things back to normal. Even Iron Man was completely ruined by Civil War, worse than Spider-Man was by OMD, but the success of the movie erased all of that and made him more popular than ever before. TASM2 has the chance to be that Spider-Man film. If not, TASM3 has the chance to be that as well especially since it looks like they'll be doing the Green Goblin and the Death of Gwen Stacy in the third film. That story literally brought the end of the Silver Age. A proper adaptation of that has the potential to compete with even TDK for the "Best CBM" title. Plus, if anything, TASM only proved just that Spidey is still the top dog when it comes to film. It made $750 million - half of what The Avengers did. Even Iron Man's films couldn't make that amount (Iron Man 3 doesn't count because it was riding off the Avengers hype). It took Iron Man and 5 other heroes to make $1.5 billion and Spidey made half of that all by himself. Also keep in mind that the reboot had a lot of backlash in the first place due to the Raimi franchise still being fresh in people's minds and for redoing the origin. Yet it is still the highest grossing reboot of all time. With the burden of being a reboot out of the way, imagine how much a Spider-Man film with the same quality as TDK could make. Or how much a properly done Death of Gwen Stacy film can make.

Everyone keeps talking about how Iron Man has taken Spidey's place but they forget that Spidey is not at his best right now while Iron Man is. It will be interesting to see how Iron Man holds up if/when Spider-Man stories (in both films & comics) are good again. However, I also think Iron Man has the potential chance to take Spidey's place completely if this continues for a lot more years. That's why I've been saying Webb has to give the films all he has. Webb isn't just holding the future of Spider-Man films in his hands but the future of Spider-Man in his hands. TASM 2 & TASM 3 have to great; not good but great.

 

[Shikamaru]

Also, I don't want to make it sound as if I think Iron Man's current popularity is just a fad. I think Iron Man really deserves the popularity he has and I'm really glad the MCU took him out of the "underrated list" and put him on the A-rank list. I'm not saying everyone will just forget about him once Spidey is back in the game. I think Iron Man will still be in Marvel's top 3 and will still be loved by everyone, but I think people won't noticed him as much because they'll be more into Spider-Man again.

 

[Picard Sisko]

In the end, we aren't all Spidey fans because he is the Marvel icon. To me, that's just a bonus. All of the great Spider-Man stories over the past 5 decades are amazing (except the last 5-6 years I suppose), and he is such a rich character. I couldn't care less if Iron Man was crowned the flagship character because I know that my love for him could never come close to the love that I have for Spider-Man.

 

[psylockolussus]

Honestly, I just can't see Iron Man being THE flagship character of Marvel. It feels like most of the time its Iron Man vs. a bigger, "evil" Iron Man.

His best villain, The Mandarin, was turned into a big joke in IM3, and the rest are just Iron Man rip-offs. Iron Monger, Crimson Dynamo, Zeke Stane, Titanium Man, A.I.M., or The Controller. Iron Man's rogues gallery is really weak, and doesn't come close to Spider-Man's.

I agree with this.

Plus there's so much variety in Spidey's rogue gallery and the villains are more interesting compare to the rogue gallery of Iron Man.

 

[Picard Sisko]

Iron Man has some of the lamest villains. Its too bad the GA only judges these characters primarily on the movies.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Iron Man has some of the lamest villains. Its too bad the GA only judges these characters primarily on the movies.

I like Iron Man villains
A good Stan Lee quote is in order:
"There are no bad characters, just bad writers"
I don't like the way the second part is formed, my version of it "Characters badly handled". Some great writers can make certain characters boring

 

[Picard Sisko]

I didn't say the villains were bad. But they are just lazy and uncreative... Iron Man vs. another Iron Man rip-off. When we finally get his arch nemesis on the big screen, the Mandarin, he is turned into a big joke. Imagine if that happened to the Green Goblin, Doc Ock, or Venom in a Spider-Man film.

Imagine if ever Spider-Man villain was based on a Spider. The only really popular villain is Venom, and he acts like a mirror for Spidey. Otherwise we have Doc Ock, Green Goblin, Lizard, Sandman, Rhino, Mysterio... a very diverse rogues gallery.

 

[Picard Sisko]

If Marvel was strategically dethroning Spider-Man as the flagship character, they wouldn't have celebrated his 50th anniversary in 2012. Does anyone know if Iron Man is getting the same treatment this year?

 

[Spider-Aziz]

He should, his movie is a $1Billion+
I'm not seeing any, and his anniversary was 6 months ago

 

[Picard Sisko]

Just because his movie earned over a billion doesn't mean he should get a big celebration... that movie was still riding off of the success of the Avengers.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

They should at the very least print the "50th Anniversary" logo on the covers
Didn't, at least not the covers in Marvel Wikia

 

[Picard Sisko]

I do think they should print 50th anniversary on his comic book covers, but I don't think Iron Man will get a big celebration like at Comic Con for example.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Not only has Iron Man not supplanted Spider-man, Hulk is still Marvel's #2. Spider-man has now launched his 2nd live-action movie series and 9th animated series. Hulk has had a live-action series, 2 movies, and 3 animated series (not counting Marvel Super Heroes or Avengers) and his solo title still slightly outsells IM's solo title.

I'm glad that Marvel has been able to move Iron Man up the latter, but right now, the character is still benefitting from the perfect storm. It remains to be seen if IM can maintain his popularity apart from RDJ and the MCU.

 

[Picard Sisko]

Not only has Iron Man not supplanted Spider-man, Hulk is still Marvel's #2. Spider-man has now launched his 2nd live-action movie series and 9th animated series. Hulk has had a live-action series, 2 movies, and 3 animated series (not counting Marvel Super Heroes or Avengers) and his solo title still slightly outsells IM's solo title.

I'm glad that Marvel has been able to move Iron Man up the latter, but right now, the character is still benefitting from the perfect storm. It remains to be seen if IM can maintain his popularity apart from RDJ and the MCU.

So now you're saying that Spider-Man has been pushed back by both Iron Man and the Hulk?

 

[Lantern Venom]

So now you're saying that Spider-Man has been pushed back by both Iron Man and the Hulk?

Re-read the post. In terms of Marvel's notoriety, it goes 1. Spider-man (and it's not close), 2. Hulk 3. Iron Man 4. Wolverine.

 

[Picard Sisko]

I apologize, I read that totally wrong.

 

[spida-man]

I'll just say I think the GA is riding the Iron Man and Batman/Superman hype bandwagon and therefor those of us who can be considered REAL fans who know which super heroes TRULY deserve to be in the spotlight are annoyed atm.

 

[Picard Sisko]

The GA's top characters are always changing it seems. Spider-Man (2002) comes out and suddenly everyone is a Spider-Man fan. After the release of The Dark Knight, suddenly Batman becomes #1. And now its the Avengers (mostly Iron Man). Its very trendy.

But Spider-Man will ALWAYS be my #1.

 

[Shikamaru]

If Marvel was strategically dethroning Spider-Man as the flagship character, they wouldn't have celebrated his 50th anniversary in 2012. Does anyone know if Iron Man is getting the same treatment this year?

Spidey's 50th anniversary consisted of using him to prop up Miles Morales and to later kill him in the most pathetic way possible.

For Iron Man's 50th anniversary, he got an entire set of videos and panels dedicated to him on Marvel.com and was put on every team in Marvel (GOTG, Avengers, SHIELD, etc.).

It's true that Iron Man still has a lot of work before he takes over Spidey's place, but I think it's fairly obvious right now that Marvel - Quesada's Marvel - wants to bring Spider-Man down. However, like I said, Spidey rising back up on the big screen again would fix this. Marvel doesn't decide which characters get to be popular and which don't. Popularity is chosen by the masses, and then Marvel has no choice but to market that character the most to acquire the most revenue they can potentially acquire.

 

[Shikamaru]

I'll just say I think the GA is riding the Iron Man and Batman/Superman hype bandwagon and therefor those of us who can be considered REAL fans who know which super heroes TRULY deserve to be in the spotlight are annoyed atm.

The GA's top characters are always changing it seems. Spider-Man (2002) comes out and suddenly everyone is a Spider-Man fan. After the release of The Dark Knight, suddenly Batman becomes #1. And now its the Avengers (mostly Iron Man). Its very trendy.

But Spider-Man will ALWAYS be my #1.

No offense to you guys (I seriously mean that), but you both subscribe to a view that really grinds my gears. That idea that Batman being #1 - and Superman though to a lesser degree - instead of Spider-Man is a bandwagon case.

See, I can understand that argument for someone like Iron Man because he literally came out of nowhere and is now really big. But Batman? Batman has always been on par with Spider-Man in popularity. This is nothing new. He didn't just come out of nowhere and take Spider-Man's "throne".

There is a general pattern that follows superhero popularity....There might a period of time in which someone like Iron Man is the biggest thing ever but in the end, it always goes back to the Big Three: Superman, Batman, and Spider-Man. Whenever each three of these characters are written good and to their full potential, their popularity is always about equal. There might be a few small differences, but they would all be small.

Whenever one is vastly more popular to the general audience, it is because one is written to his full potential while the other is going through a bad time. Why was Spider-Man trumping Batman in 2002 in the eyes of the GA? Because he had some trump card over Batman? No. It was by default. Spidey films were at their best (or so the GA says; I never agreed with that but I'm not the GA) while Batman's previous films left a sour taste in people's mouths. The opposite thing is occurring now. Why is Batman so much more popular to the GA at this point than Spidey? Because Spidey's media is at its worst while Batman's media is at its best - Nolan films, Arkham games, etc. (At least the Batman mediums that the GA are frequently exposed to). Batman wins by default. It's not following the bandwagon in the same way how Spidey being a lot bigger than Batman in 2002 wasn't following the "Spider-Man bandwagon".

Whenever Batman stories/films and Spider-Man stories/films are at their peak, you will never have a case of one being so much more popular than the other one. Their popularity will always be about equal since they're the most iconic superheroes (other than Superman). If one will be more popular than the other, the difference would be so small you can almost say it doesn't exist. It would be that irrelevant.

Batman deserves the #1 spot just as much as Spider-Man does. Since his inception, he has influenced pop culture (and even our society as a whole) just as much as Spider-Man did. To act as if Batman is this character that came out of nowhere a few years ago and is now suddenly the biggest thing ever is to undermine all of that. Batman is not like Iron Man and Kick-Ass in that regard.

As a side note, the same argument I just made about Batman applies to Superman. It's just that Superman's been having a bit of trouble for the past few years so he's taken a few steps down due to that.

 

[Green Goblin]

Spidey's 50th anniversary consisted of using him to prop up Miles Morales and to later kill him in the most pathetic way possible.

For Iron Man's 50th anniversary, he got an entire set of videos and panels dedicated to him on Marvel.com and was put on every team in Marvel (GOTG, Avengers, SHIELD, etc.).

It's true that Iron Man still has a lot of work before he takes over Spidey's place, but I think it's fairly obvious right now that Marvel - Quesada's Marvel - wants to bring Spider-Man down. However, like I said, Spidey rising back up on the big screen again would fix this. Marvel doesn't decide which characters get to be popular and which don't. Popularity is chosen by the masses, and then Marvel has no choice but to market that character the most to acquire the most revenue they can potentially acquire.

I think they did more for the 50th anniversary.

 

[Picard Sisko]

Spidey's 50th anniversary consisted of using him to prop up Miles Morales and to later kill him in the most pathetic way possible.

For Iron Man's 50th anniversary, he got an entire set of videos and panels dedicated to him on Marvel.com and was put on every team in Marvel (GOTG, Avengers, SHIELD, etc.).

Spider-Man had a whole panel at New York Comic Con 2012 dedicated to him, and honestly that's a lot more than Iron Man. Iron Man would never get his own panel, at least not right now.

At least Spider-Man was written about in mass media like USA Today:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/life/comics/story/2012-08-21/Spider-Man-50th-anniversary/57195770/1

 

[Picard Sisko]

Also, I NEVER said that Batman or Superman were never popular. I've always said that the "big three" are Superman, Batman, and Spider-Man, but for the GA, the most popular characters are whatever is doing best with films at that time. Hence... its very trendy. The latest trend seems to be The Avengers. While Batman has always been popular, his popularity really sky rocketed after the release of the Dark Knight, and there is no denying that.

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

Also, I NEVER said that Batman or Superman were never popular. I've always said that the "big three" are Superman, Batman, and Spider-Man, but for the GA, the most popular characters are whatever is doing best with films at that time. Hence... its very trendy. The latest trend seems to be The Avengers. While Batman has always been popular, his popularity really sky rocketed after the release of the Dark Knight, and there is no denying that.

Sorry, I don't buy this line of thinking. Shikamaru had it right, the popularity of established characters to the GA is not as fickle as you make it seem. And calling the Avengers simply a trend is also way off the mark. They are here to stay going forward, but believe what you will.