Has the genre peaked?

[samsnee]

But the question isn't just if we will continue to have superhero movies, but good or great superhero movies. Has it peaked, meaning everything here on it will seem repetitive?

 

[bullets]

i thought spiderman would of been the peak but then the dark knight came along . it's possible we may get something lse in a couple years to suprise us again. .

 

[terry78]

Everytime the media and fanboys say the bar has been raised so high nothing can top it, several years down the line we get something else. There will always be someone better, no matter how good you are. It's a cycle of life.

 

[jmc]

^ That may be true but then there are those select few that stand out above the rest for all time. Is TDK the one for superhero/comic adaptations? Only time will tell.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

I think as long as there are still children having parents buy them the latest cool superhero themed toy there will be superhero movies.

I think as long as there are superhero movies there will be children having parents buy them the latest cool superhero themed toy.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

That being said, that time isn't coming soon; Marvel and DC are planning like a combined 50 movies over the next 10 years.

That doesn't mean they will get made. Marvel Studios are wisely striking while the iron is hot, and DC wants a similar opportunity.

 

[The Major]

I would say Spider-man, X-men, Hulk, and and Fantastic Four have reached their potential at this point.

Okay.

What other villains are there for Spider-man that would offer something new and different for the general public? Maybe Mysterio, Kraven or Lizard.

I'd add the Rhino, Chameleon and Carnage but yeah, you got them all.

They could do the clone story line, too. A possible trilogy in itself.

That's still a few movies to go before it reaches its potential in film.

So that's maybe one or two more movies. X-men seems to be moving forward with solo stories like Wolverine.

I'd say the X-men haven't reached their potential at all. It's just dealt with Magneto/the Brotherhood. He's not the only interesting story line or villains the X-men have.

They've still got the Sentinels, Apoclaypse, Sinister etc and story lines like Days of Future Past they could adapt.

They could make several movies just about Wolverine's own franchise.

And the less said about FF the better. They should just give it to Marvel and let them do a re-boot in 6 years.

Agreed.

I thought TIH was great, but it doesn't look like we'll get a direct sequel.

Which is to bad. I liked the movie and it set up The Leader great.

Most of the ones you listed seem derivative of other heroes the public has already seen or will see.

Isn't this a good thing to keep Hollywood's interest in making them?

Or, they are not "big names" so studios may not be willing to risk the budget they need to tell their story if they don't see a good bottom line.

That's their biggest problem IMO.

The closest franchise I can think of that we can look at as a benchmark is the Bond series. Somehow, it's been going for over twenty films, even though most of the stories are basically the same... Bond girl, world-dominating villain, cool gadgets, etc. Yet, they somehow continue to draw in the crowds.

Most super-hero comics operate closer to this IMO.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

With regards to the Bond series lasting so long, it's becasue it can adapt and change to current tastes and trends. Bond movies have been everything from blaxploitation (Live and Let Die), to grim revenge thriller (Licence to Kill), to comicbook style (Moonraker), camp (Diamonds are Forever), John Woo (Tomorrow Never Dies), and so on.

The only comicbook figure who can change in similar ways is Batman. It's no co-incidence the longest lasting superhero franchise is Batman.

 

[The Major]

With regards to the Bond series lasting so long, it's becasue it can adapt and change to current tastes and trends. Bond movies have been everything from blaxploitation (Live and Let Die), to grim revenge thriller (Licence to Kill), to comicbook style (Moonraker), camp (Diamonds are Forever), John Woo (Tomorrow Never Dies), and so on.

The only comicbook figure who can change in similar ways is Batman.

Comic characters are updated constantly in the comic series. They've done this with the cartoons, as well.

No reason it can't be done in film.

It's no co-incidence the longest lasting superhero franchise is Batman.

It began earlier, was easier then make for live action and was respected by WB more then other comic franchises. That's why.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Comic characters are updated constantly in the comic series. They've done this with the cartoons, as well.

No reason it can't be done in film.

LOL, it's not the same thing at all. It's not updating. It's completely changing. You can't have the same flexibility of character with, say, Green Lantern or the Fantastic Four. Or just about any fictional character. It's Bond and Batman who can do it.

It began earlier, was easier then make for live action and was respected by WB more then other comic franchises. That's why.

Oh right, there I was thinking it was audiences who bought the tickets and made the franchise succesful.

 

[jaymes_e06]

I agree with the above.
I think Heath Ledger will be nominated for an academy award...and I will go on to say that I think TDK will be nominated for Best Picture.....yeah, I said it and I believe it. It will be the first comic book superhero film to do so. Hey, if movies based on fantasy such as a Tolkein book can win, it's high time for a comic book movie to follow. I think this is only going to give the whole genre credibility.
TDK is the first superhero film since Superman: The Movie, the one that started it all, that as you watch, you feel an epic quality wash over you. It's been a full 30 years since a superhero movie made this seismic an impact. X2, Spider-man 2, Batman and Batman Begins all came very, very close and felt like they brushed that, but Superman and The Dark Knight feel like they are on a shelf reserved for classics. This kind of film making not only does wonders for the genre, but for film making itself.

I agree with that. I think that once that happens people will start to look at the genre differently also.

 

[The Major]

LOL, it's not the same thing at all. It's not updating. It's completely changing. You can't have the same flexibility of character with, say, Green Lantern or the Fantastic Four. Or just about any fictional character. It's Bond and Batman who can do it.

Some franchises can be less flexible then others. GL and FF aren't them.

They can go from campy to funny to dead serious in one story.

Oh right, there I was thinking it was audiences who bought the tickets and made the franchise succesful.

The audience wouldn't have bought tickets to Batman before the movies were made first.

 

[The Major]

LOL, it's not the same thing at all. It's not updating. It's completely changing. You can't have the same flexibility of character with, say, Green Lantern or the Fantastic Four. Or just about any fictional character. It's Bond and Batman who can do it.

Some franchises can be less flexible then others. GL and FF aren't them.

They can go from campy to funny to dead serious whether it be different stories or different creator runs without changing the concept to much. Batman and Bond have much more resources to show this to public then most comic franchises, too.

Oh right, there I was thinking it was audiences who bought the tickets and made the franchise succesful.

The audience wouldn't have bought tickets to Batman before the movies were made first.

Batman got WB's attention, most comic franchises back then didn't.

 

[jmc]

I agree with that. I think that once that happens people will start to look at the genre differently also.

I think TDK already has people looking at comic adaptations differently, that's good news for everyone, and the studios will see that people will go see quality and mature films, especially WB, they've got an untapped market of other characters, that's the one advantage they've got over Marvel.

 

[The Major]

jmc:

What untapped market of characters does DC have over Marvel?

 

[Chewy]

jmc:

What untapped market of characters does DC have over Marvel?

Every character that isn't Batman or Superman - Flash, GL, WW, etc

 

[jmc]

jmc:

What untapped market of characters does DC have over Marvel?

The three main ones, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern and Flash. WB need to look at the success of Iron Man and see that tier 2 characters are bankable and they have to look at The Dark Knight as to how you brings these character to the screen, that means giving them each their own universe to move in. I know this annoys some (if not most) comics fans but it really is best for the characters. Marvel might be content with producing superhero movie after super hero movie with a singular universe and with the same tone and style but eventually the audience will get bored. What WB have at the moment is a golden opportunity to really bring several unique projects to the screen and potentially reap bigger rewards, they have to let the director's vision lead the way, not get bogged down with tieing films together, they have to take some risks, and look at The Dark Knight as the benchmark and say 'How do we go one better?', that's what they have over Marvel, Marvel aren't about to take any risks.

 

[The Major]

Every character that isn't Batman or Superman

Doesn't mean they still can't make successful movies from lesser known franchises. Marvel's already done that once with Blade.

WB's in the same situation with theirs.

- Flash, GL, WW, etc

They're not going to do WB any good until they make good films of them. None of them have managed to even get past the green light stage.

JMC:

Agreed.

I'd definitely say what Marvel are doing is very risky. Have any movie studio done anything like this before?

 

[jmc]

JMC:

Agreed.

I'd definitely say what Marvel are doing is very risky. Have any movie studio done anything like this before?

Not that I'm aware of, or at least not to the extent that Marvel are doing it.

 

[Bubonic]

I think the genre will go as far as the quality will allow it.
Right now we seem to be getting more and more super-hero movies that are made with some spirit, and not soulless box office engines.

A lot of the super-heroes we know have many similarities, but it is the differences among them that will need to be capitalized in order to draw interest and avoid mass boredom.

I think what Marvel is doing with its properties is the best way to go in order to ensure a long lifespan for these movies.
They are setting us up for the Avengers.
After that maybe we will get translations of popular arcs, and I think that will be the future of comic movies, instead of focusing on individual heroes and revealing their origins, it will be more focused on dealing with storylines which happen to feature multiple heroes.

 

[samsnee]

I'm a firm believer that a superhero movie is only good when we have a great here AND a great villain. Of Wonder Woman, GL, and Flash, I don't know if they have any in their rogues gallery that would make a great villain on screen. I don't know any for WW, maybe Sinestro for GL, and with Flash, I don't think a talking gorilla would be taken seriously, and would probably make unfair comparisons to Planet of the Apes.

In fact, I don't know if for a character like WW there is a great story to be told. At least with Ant-man, most people know nothing of the character, so changing the costume, or other aspects of the story won't upset people.

 

[Tony Stark]

Everytime the media and fanboys say the bar has been raised so high nothing can top it, several years down the line we get something else. There will always be someone better, no matter how good you are. It's a cycle of life.

Well said. But what I don't want to see is people trying to immitate the style of other films. One of the reasons TDK and IM were such big successes, is they were refreshing and new to the genre.

People say "we want dark and gritty", well no I don't think that's what they want nessisarily, they want a good movie with a good script and the characters taken seriously. Dark and gritty works for TDK, because that is Batman (or at least the Kane and Miller takes on the character).

 

[terry78]

Exactly, TDK is getting good marks because Batman's universe is grounded in a real, gritty universe. Dude has no powers except his intellect, physical skills and his wealth. You can turn that into a noir-type of movie in the vein of Michael Mann....you can't do that with WW, Flash, etc. Any movie where the character has superhuman powers or enemies, it's always going to come off as more campy and fun, no matter how well done it is.

 

[November Rain]

the genre peaks with fanboyism at its biggest and you don't get bigger than justice league and avengers

after those two, i would probably not want much out of them

but the absolute peak of peaking would be a marvel vs dc movie but that's not destined to happen.

I guess another way a franchise can peak is to have a story themed film with the story able to showcase all relevant characters within a universe without being a 'spiderman film' or 'batman film', it'd be a marvel filmverse event.


once all those horizons have been reached sucessfully. then i want nothing else from the genre

 

[The Major]

I'm a firm believer that a superhero movie is only good when we have a great here AND a great villain.

Agreed.

Of Wonder Woman, GL, and Flash, I don't know if they have any in their rogues gallery that would make a great villain on screen.

I think they all do.

I don't know any for WW, maybe Sinestro for GL,

WW's primary villains are Ares, Circe and The Cheetah.

Ares has a great visual, is the god of war, has an interesting personality and has what it takes to turn the world into WW III.

http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/4400456.html

http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/4038465.html

http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/tag/ares (Look at the links with DC's Ares)

Minerva's Cheetah has magic claws, stats to make her keep up with WW in combat, with some versions she eats people to keep her Cheetah form, is the polar opposite of WW since she was rejected by her god because she wasn't a virgin when she became his champion and her human persona is an evil Lara Croft. There's a great Rucka story about her when she infiltrates the jail WW is kept in when she is on trial by the U.N. after killing Max Lord. Minerva has a ot of depth in it. She seems to think she has a rivalry with Diana where she's envious about why the world treats her so well while she's hated. It shows almost like a rivalry between two kids fighting over who their parents, in this case the world, sees them from Minerva's point of view.

http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/5785133.html

http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/tag/cheetah

Circe's sort of like WW's Loki.

http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/5930679.html

http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/4321861.html

http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/4165320.html

http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/tag/circe

Other villains include Medousa

http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/4371479.html

Veronica Cale, she's kind of like WW's Lex Luthor. She's a self made billionaire who thinks WW's a hypocrite/fraud since she's a princess and given her powers by gods. I think her origin is revealed in Bitter Rivals.

http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/4365017.html

http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/tag/veronica+cale

and with Flash, I don't think a talking gorilla would be taken seriously,

They can go in two directions with Grodd. Either make it campy or do it really, really serious.

Grodd can be a very cool villain, he just needs to be done correctly. He will be tougher to adapt in live action then in comics or cartoons, though.

This is a guy whose got telepathy, is utterly ruthless, can create his own super technology, has a physique that is much stronger then an average gorilla and is a very intelligent villain who can competently use his abilities to their maximum potential.

http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/tag/grodd

and would probably make unfair comparisons to Planet of the Apes.

Comparisons are going to made no matter what they adapt.

In fact, I don't know if for a character like WW there is a great story to be told.

Gods & Monsters is a great story which would be great to see in film. That's only the beginning.

There's the Bana:

http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/4145718.html

Which leads into Artemis becoming Wonder Woman for a while after The Contest.

http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/tag/artemis

Theres much more where that came from.

Here are some great story lines from the comics you can read.

http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/?tag=when+wondy+was+awesome

At least with Ant-man, most people know nothing of the character, so changing the costume, or other aspects of the story won't upset people.

You're underestimating Ant-man. He can be a very complex and tragic individual. At the very least he created Ultron, whose brain waves are based on his own, and is very mentally unstable. This was covered very well in the Ultron Unlimited story arc.

http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/3202290.html

http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/3203611.html

http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/3205303.html

http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/3231111.html