Has the genre peaked?

[TheComicbookKid]

God bless you Major.

There is no such thing as serious with Gorrilla Grodd. A gorilla building technology would look ridiculous. Planet of the Apes was compelling because they were on human level. The Flash runs at super speed.

It's partly the same problem that Wondy has. People say she has Superman level strength, but outside of the Gods or mythological villains, she's facing Flash power level villains which makes them less compelling.

 

[The Major]

God bless you Major.

There is no such thing as serious with Gorrilla Grodd. A gorilla building technology would look ridiculous. Planet of the Apes was compelling because they were on human level. The Flash runs at super speed.

You think a scene where Grodd rips off a security guards arm then proceeds to beat them to death with it would look ridiculous? How about him using his telepathy to get Flash to kill someone or steal something for him?

Grodd has always used tech which allows him to give Flash problems. He's sneaky, too. In the Golden Age he secretly traveled around in a rocketcar which was faster then then Flash could run.

I do agree it would be extremely difficult to be serious with Grodd in live action.

It's partly the same problem that Wondy has. People say she has Superman level strength,

She's a rung below him in strength. What makes her dangerous is her fighting skill (she's one of the DCU's premiere martial artists without her powers) and willingness to kill when necessary.

but outside of the Gods or mythological villains,

Magic and mythology is WW's primary niche in the DCU, Superman's is sci-fi and Batman's is street crime.

She does do more then that, of course. WW does fight street crime, aliens, criminal geniuses just like everyone else in the DCU.

she's facing Flash power level villains which makes them less compelling.

A villains power level doesn't mean they can't be extremely dangerous for the hero. It all comes down to execution. They could beef up their powers in film, as well.

Which villains does WW have are Flash level?

 

[terry78]

If they use Cheetah they'd have to use the furry version, not the woman in a cheetah costume shtick.

 

[The Major]

If they use Cheetah they'd have to use the furry version, not the woman in a cheetah costume shtick.

Definitely.

 

[Heretic]

I love that people are saying the genre has peaked, while there is currently a movie in theaters on track to become the second biggest movie of all time.

Another thing that interests me is that it seems that the term "comic book movie" has been replaced with "superhero movie". This is good...since the fate of movies like Strangers In Paradise, 100 Bullets or whatever should not be linked to a crappy Ghost Rider sequel. Perhaps the media has started to realize that comic books are a medium, not a single genre.

However...why stop there???? Batman is a crime thriller franchise...and most crime movies end with a big fight/shoot em up scene or whatever. Thor is a fantasy franchise...and lo and behold...fantasy action movies tend to end with a big fight. You can keep going from there.

We do have a choice..either we continue with this ridiculous idea that all comic books somehow fall into the same genre, which will lead to a tired general audience, and rather weak movies...OR we can stand up for the fact that our medium of choice encompasses ALL of the genres you can fit into a book store or video store. We should be every bit as excited about Y The Last Man as we are for Super Max. As a community we should support books like A History Of Violence, American Splendor, Road To Perdition etc. I find it appalling when I go to comic shops right after a comic based movie is released and the graphic novels are buried in the back as opposed to being put in the window. Comics are more than just superheroes, and filling one display window with non superhero titles could (GASP) bring in new readers. I guarantee that a window display of The Sheild, Sin City, A History Of Violence, CSI, and Road To Perdition would increase traffic by non comic readers...yet most comic shops cant see past superheroes (as if superhero fans will somehow not be able to figure out that its a comic shop unless the entirety of the displays are superhero related).

Rant over...but we as a community at some point have to stand up and say..."hey Hollywood, Batman and Fantastic Four are NOT the same genre of movies".

 

[TheComicbookKid]

You think a scene where Grodd rips off a security guards arm then proceeds to beat them to death with it would look ridiculous? How about him using his telepathy to get Flash to kill someone or steal something for him?





She's a rung below him in strength. What makes her dangerous is her fighting skill (she's one of the DCU's premiere martial artists without her powers) and willingness to kill when necessary.



Magic and mythology is WW's primary niche in the DCU, Superman's is sci-fi and Batman's is street crime.

She does do more then that, of course. WW does fight street crime, aliens, criminal geniuses just like everyone else in the DCU.



A villains power level doesn't mean they can't be extremely dangerous for the hero. It all comes down to execution. They could beef up their powers in film, as well.

Which villains does WW have are Flash level?

While I agree with you in theory, Grodd just doesn't come across as threatening because he is a smart gorilla first and foremost.


Wonder Woman Villains at Flash Level

Grodd= Dr. Psycho
Mirror Master= Duke of Deception or Angle Man
Captain Cold = Mask

It's not that they can't be threatening, it's that they aren't on Wonder Woman's level. If Wonder Woman can fight Superman to a stand still then her villains need to be at least as challenging to Superman without Luthor size intelligence.

 

[jmc]

I love that people are saying the genre has peaked, while there is currently a movie in theaters on track to become the second biggest movie of all time.

Another thing that interests me is that it seems that the term "comic book movie" has been replaced with "superhero movie". This is good...since the fate of movies like Strangers In Paradise, 100 Bullets or whatever should not be linked to a crappy Ghost Rider sequel. Perhaps the media has started to realize that comic books are a medium, not a single genre.

However...why stop there???? Batman is a crime thriller franchise...and most crime movies end with a big fight/shoot em up scene or whatever. Thor is a fantasy franchise...and lo and behold...fantasy action movies tend to end with a big fight. You can keep going from there.

We do have a choice..either we continue with this ridiculous idea that all comic books somehow fall into the same genre, which will lead to a tired general audience, and rather weak movies...OR we can stand up for the fact that our medium of choice encompasses ALL of the genres you can fit into a book store or video store. We should be every bit as excited about Y The Last Man as we are for Super Max. As a community we should support books like A History Of Violence, American Splendor, Road To Perdition etc. I find it appalling when I go to comic shops right after a comic based movie is released and the graphic novels are buried in the back as opposed to being put in the window. Comics are more than just superheroes, and filling one display window with non superhero titles could (GASP) bring in new readers. I guarantee that a window display of The Sheild, Sin City, A History Of Violence, CSI, and Road To Perdition would increase traffic by non comic readers...yet most comic shops cant see past superheroes (as if superhero fans will somehow not be able to figure out that its a comic shop unless the entirety of the displays are superhero related).

Rant over...but we as a community at some point have to stand up and say..."hey Hollywood, Batman and Fantastic Four are NOT the same genre of movies".

Thank you, someone else gets it, comics are a medium, not a genre, just another form of story telling. The Dark Knight is a crime epic, Iron Man is an action adventure, Superman Returns is a Sci-fi, History of Violence a gritty drama. People need to stop looking at these films as 'comic book movies', the term needs to be phased out, the fact that these films are based off comic characters should be secondary, the sooner the term if done away with, the better the films we'll get and the more respect they'll get.

 

[The Major]

JMC:

Agreed.

While I agree with you in theory, Grodd just doesn't come across as threatening because he is a smart gorilla first and foremost.

Grodd has got to be one of the last Flash villains I'd expect to ever see in live action.

I agree he could be almost impossible for the audience to take him seriously as a threat in film.

Wonder Woman Villains at Flash Level

Grodd= Dr. Psycho

Psycho works better as a minion. He was used incredibly well with this role in Down To Earth by Veronica Cale. They could make him a normal sized man for the audience can take him seriously. His personality would definitely be creepy enough to be chilling in film.

Mirror Master= Duke of Deception or Angle Man
Captain Cold = Mask

Haven't read any comics about those villains.

It's not that they can't be threatening, it's that they aren't on Wonder Woman's level.

Just because they can't compete with her physically doesn't mean they can't function well in film. They could just be used to be threat in a different way.

Other villains in other rogues galleries are the same, like Spider-man's Chameleon and Batman's Scarface.

If Wonder Woman can fight Superman to a stand still then her villains need to be at least as challenging to Superman without Luthor size intelligence.

Diana's rogues gallery is pitiful compared to the Big Two. She does have some rogues on that level or who could function on that level with the proper execution (Ares, Circe, Minerva's Cheetah). She does need more of them.

Some super-villains she fights have that potential they just haven't gotten there yet. Dark Angel and White Magician would be the first that comes to mind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Magician

http://rapsheet.co.uk/RapSheetMain/Character.asp?UniqueId=770

Veronica Cale and The Circle are good new additions to her villains.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veronica_Cale

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Circle_(comics)

 

[Heretic]

JMC, thanks for the back up. I THINK I might disagree a bit though.

To me, I love rubbing comic books in peoples faces. When people tell me that "comic books are for kids" and then they love the A History Of Violence movie...I simply say, "you know, that's a comic book movie" and hand them the book.

Novels are respected throughout the general publis as literature...heck, they darn near corner the definition in most peoples eyes. Graphic Novels are not viewed as literature...and in my lifetime I would love to see the day where comics are given equal respect (and not just the respect of "this is a blockbuster film").

So, Im torn...I WANT the fact that these are comics to be celebrated and promoted. If there were movies based on Stray Bullets, Stuck Rubber Baby, Blankets or some other excellent work, i would DEMAND that the public know that these movies came from comics.

However, I dont want "comic movies" to turn into some disposable trend. I think the way to avoid that is to simply release a string of quality films, for as many different genres as we can, and to make them all successful. I paid to see garbage like Ghost Rider and Fantastic Four, and Id like to think that other SHH posters would pay to see something like Maus as well if it became a movie.