BvS Have you seen the movie multiple times? If yes, has your opinion changed?

[Cats]

BvS gets better on repeat viewings and I think once people swallow their pride a little bit I think the final result will be a much more positive outcome for BvS, especially after JL1.

The poll results are pretty evident of this. I think people entered the theatre expecting it to be like this and that due to prior movies and animated series. Once the DCEU establishes their own unique universe and style, people will stop having this knee jerk reaction. It was much the same way with the first season of Gotham. About 70% of all comments were bad, comparing it to Arrow n Flash, insisting there can't be a good Gotham based story without Batman and demanding the series be cancelled. Bruno Heller endured through all that and now, they've hit their stride and become one of the highest rated shows on Fox. Just a matter of outlasting the criticisms.

 

[Slade W]

People said that MOS and Sucker Punch's reputation would improve over time, and that has not happened. Instead, their reputations have gotten worse. You never know, but I really, really doubt BVS' reputation will improve. If you read and listen to what people are saying, the portrayal of certain characters is far from the only problem with it. For example, lots of people consider the movie to be a dull and boring one, like MOS. I do not see how that will change over time.

 

[Aquafinn90]

Yes.

lol Batman seeing Superman humanity is no good reason for him to not think Superman is still dangerous like he think because he still super powered and he still could have more fights like one in Metropolis in Man of steel where lots of people get killed. Superman momma not going to change that lol.

No.

Batman wasn't fighting him because of the deaths caused in the Metropolis fight. He was fighting him because he knows how powerful he is and thinks that there is a chance that he could turn to evil and once that happens everyone is screwed. Which is literally spelled out in the "1% chance" scene with Alfred. Realizing what a selfless man he is that only wants to save his mother as his last dying wish it what makes Bruce realize he was wrong.

 

[Jaxon]

People said that MOS and Sucker Punch's reputation would improve over time, and that has not happened. Instead, their reputations have gotten worse. You never know, but I really, really doubt BVS' reputation will improve. If you read and listen to what people are saying, the portrayal of certain characters is far from the only problem with it. For example, lots of people consider the movie to be a dull and boring one, like MOS. I do not see how that will change over time.

MoS had incredible home sales which proved home much people deep down loved that movie. MoS is just a masterpiece of a movie and I'll defend it to the day the trolls put flowers on my grave stone saying "here lies Jaxon, the man who showed us the way"

 

[Aquafinn90]

. Eisenberg was just a cartoon character from the start which made it clear really quick that i can't take this character seriously. Or his motivations, if he had any.

Another "criticism" I don't understand. He literally spells out his motivations to Superman on the roof.

 

[Aquafinn90]

People said that MOS and Sucker Punch's reputation would improve over time, and that has not happened. Instead, their reputations have gotten worse. You never know, but I really, really doubt BVS' reputation will improve. If you read and listen to what people are saying, the portrayal of certain characters is far from the only problem with it. For example, lots of people consider the movie to be a dull and boring one, like MOS. I do not see how that will change over time.

Who says MOS has gotten worse? Most of the conversation I see on this board is that most people seem to like it better.



As for Batman killing, I guess I can understand the criticism if you are one that loves the character from the comics etc etc. I however, just don't care, call me not a sensitive person but it really doesn't bother me in the slightest that he's killing criminals that are trying to kill him. I also am not a comic book reader so I watch these movies and view them only as movies, not as adaptations. Which is something I try to do with all adaptations.

 

[Aquafinn90]

MoS had incredible home sales which proved home much people deep down loved that movie. MoS is just a masterpiece of a movie and I'll defend it to the day the trolls put flowers on my grave stone saying "here lies Jaxon, the man who showed us the way"

I love MOS! I hated the character of Superman before MOS came out, this made me love him. My ONLY complaint with the movie is I feel a lot of Daily Planet scenes were cut and Clark and Lois could have used a few more scenes together to develop their relationship(and slightly better dialogue)

 

[shauner111]

Lex had motivations. They were just thin. One little mention in the middle of his fast talking nonsense about an abusive father. Either God is all powerful and not knowing or the opposite. He wants to punish God, so he's punishing Superman. Big whoop. It felt like a typical twirling mustache villain who hams it up and wants to be God or feel powerful like God so he builds a Frankenstein to do his dirty work.

Everything from performance to characterization felt very immature. Like a spoiled 16 year old brat who acts childish like the world owes him something. Lex was the type of villain that makes me hate comic book movies, usually. It's so cliche and overdone. The geeky, nervous guy who thinks he's cool but isn't. And Doomsday is the epitome of what I hate about Hollywood. Just a CGI monster with no personality.

As for Batman killing, I guess I can understand the criticism if you are one that loves the character from the comics etc etc. I however, just don't care, call me not a sensitive person but it really doesn't bother me in the slightest that he's killing criminals that are trying to kill him. I also am not a comic book reader so I watch these movies and view them only as movies, not as adaptations. Which is something I try to do with all adaptations.

You're a casual fan that's why you're not so attached as a lot of us here.

 

[stargazer]

No.

Batman wasn't fighting him because of the deaths caused in the Metropolis fight. He was fighting him because he knows how powerful he is and thinks that there is a chance that he could turn to evil and once that happens everyone is screwed. Which is literally spelled out in the "1% chance" scene with Alfred. Realizing what a selfless man he is that only wants to save his mother as his last dying wish it what makes Bruce realize he was wrong.

Agreed. Also seeing how protective and loving Lois was for Superman helped him realized Supe was a man with a family. He saw himself in Superman. He wouldn't do to him what that guy did to his parents.

Superman's sacrifice to save the world further convinced him he was a real hero and a good man. and the real Batman was born again.

 

[stargazer]

Lex had motivations. They were just thin. One little mention in the middle of his fast talking nonsense about an abusive father. Either God is all powerful and not knowing or the opposite. He wants to punish God, so he's punishing Superman. Big whoop. It felt like a typical twirling mustache villain who hams it up and wants to be God or feel powerful like God so he builds a Frankenstein to do his dirty work.

Everything from performance to characterization felt very immature. Like a spoiled 16 year old brat who acts childish like the world owes him something. Lex was the type of villain that makes me hate comic book movies, usually. It's so cliche and overdone. The geeky, nervous guy who thinks he's cool but isn't. And Doomsday is the epitome of what I hate about Hollywood. Just a CGI monster with no personality.

You're a casual fan that's why you're not so attached as a lot of us here.

so basically it's the same old Lex we've known.

At least he has better motivation than the Joker.

 

[shauner111]

so basically it's the same old Lex we've known.

At least he has better motivation than the Joker.

You gotta be kidding me

 

[stargazer]

Nope

 

[The Joker]

so basically it's the same old Lex we've known.

Nope. Lex Luthor has never had such vague, paper thin motives.

At least he has better motivation than the Joker.

Most definitely not.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

At least he has better motivation than the Joker.

Suicide Squad was that bad? Damn.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

Let's think about Lex's motives for a second.

Superman destroys city, Lex rebuilds it.

Lex is actually making money off Superman so why is he mad at him?

What Lex should be mad at is if the city of Metropolis praised and loved Superman. Lex who rebuild buildings and gave people jobs, got no praise but Superman did. Superman even gets a statue.

That right there would be the perfect motive for Lex.

 

[Slade W]

MoS had incredible home sales which proved home much people deep down loved that movie. MoS is just a masterpiece of a movie and I'll defend it to the day the trolls put flowers on my grave stone saying "here lies Jaxon, the man who showed us the way"

I am pretty sure that I heard ASM2 had good home sales too. I have definitely heard about other movies that are considered bad my most people doing well when it comes to home sales. The movies failure to crack a billion at the box office, despite having Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman in it, not too long after two movies with just Batman in them did, is much more telling. I am not completely sure about what you mean by "people deep down loved that movie", but if you think that people that like that movie are pretending to hate it for some weird reason, then I really do not know what to say. Fair enough if you like the movie though, there is nothing wrong with that. You wont change peoples opinions though, same way they cannot change yours. For most people, MOS is a middling movie and BVS is a bad movie, and that will not change over time.

 

[The Endless]

No.

Batman wasn't fighting him because of the deaths caused in the Metropolis fight. He was fighting him because he knows how powerful he is and thinks that there is a chance that he could turn to evil and once that happens everyone is screwed. Which is literally spelled out in the "1% chance" scene with Alfred. Realizing what a selfless man he is that only wants to save his mother as his last dying wish it what makes Bruce realize he was wrong.

How does trying to save your mother make you selfless?

Superman having a human mother named Martha shouldn't have changed anything for Bruce really. Superman still has the potential to destroy the world.

At best a grudging respect with some mistrust. But the way Bruce did a complete 180 and became Supermans best buddy was terribly contrived. It's like a child wrote it.

 

[Slade W]

Who says MOS has gotten worse? Most of the conversation I see on this board is that most people seem to like it better.



As for Batman killing, I guess I can understand the criticism if you are one that loves the character from the comics etc etc. I however, just don't care, call me not a sensitive person but it really doesn't bother me in the slightest that he's killing criminals that are trying to kill him. I also am not a comic book reader so I watch these movies and view them only as movies, not as adaptations. Which is something I try to do with all adaptations.

I don't agree with your first two sentences at all. You must only read the positivity threads, if that is the case. I am no fan of MOS, but even I think that people go on and on about it too much, and I remember making a post not too long ago saying that I do not understand why people are still turning every thread into an essay writing competition when it comes to MOS.

In regards to your 2nd paragraph, fair enough. There is nothing wrong with you enjoying a Batman that kills. Batman was one of the few things that I enjoyed in BVS, despite killing, as that is something I am against him doing. To each their own. But Batman killing people is not even close to the top of my list when it comes to my list of problems with BVS, that is how little I think of it and how boring I found it.

 

[BornYesterday]

How does trying to save your mother make you selfless?

Superman having a human mother named Martha shouldn't have changed anything for Bruce really. Superman still has the potential to destroy the world.

At best a grudging respect with some mistrust. But the way Bruce did a complete 180 and became Supermans best buddy was terribly contrived. It's like a child wrote it.

Batman spent the entire movie viewing Superman as the other - an alien, a monster. But in that moment when Superman is pleading for his mother, he's humanized. "Superman has a mother, just like me, he was a boy and grew up with a mom, he's afraid of her dying, just like me." Batman already knew Superman was a good guy, he admitted as much, but in that moment his own humanity and empathy was reawakened, and he saw Superman as an equal.

It was a brilliant scene.

 

[auditor]

I watched it for the second time and I am still disappointed. This movie could have been so much better if it had a director that knows how to tell a story in a proper manner. There is a good story somewhere in this, but the poor editing and unnecessary scenes made the film appear shallow and incomplete. Batman V Superman is a prime example of having style over substance.

I actually don't think you're being harsh enough. I don't think the film had a story in there. look at how Doomsday was introduced.look at how anti-climatic Superman's death was.

 

[auditor]

Batman spent the entire movie viewing Superman as the other - an alien, a monster. But in that moment when Superman is pleading for his mother, he's humanized. "Superman has a mother, just like me, he was a boy and grew up with a mom, he's afraid of her dying, just like me." Batman already knew Superman was a good guy, he admitted as much, but in that moment his own humanity and empathy was reawakened, and he saw Superman as an equal.

It was a brilliant scene.

I somewhat agree. this was the only moment in the entire movie where I felt any emotion at all. however I still don't like the reason they fight each other and I don't like Lex Luthor knowing everybody secret identity so early on for no reason at all.

 

[auditor]

Lex had motivations. They were just thin. One little mention in the middle of his fast talking nonsense about an abusive father. Either God is all powerful and not knowing or the opposite. He wants to punish God, so he's punishing Superman. Big whoop. It felt like a typical twirling mustache villain who hams it up and wants to be God or feel powerful like God so he builds a Frankenstein to do his dirty work.

Everything from performance to characterization felt very immature. Like a spoiled 16 year old brat who acts childish like the world owes him something. Lex was the type of villain that makes me hate comic book movies, usually. It's so cliche and overdone. The geeky, nervous guy who thinks he's cool but isn't. And Doomsday is the epitome of what I hate about Hollywood. Just a CGI monster with no personality.

You're a casual fan that's why you're not so attached as a lot of us here.

I have to agree. when I saw Eisenberg Lex Luthor I saw a spoiled brat. when I see Lex Luthor in the comic books I don't see a spoiled brat.

 

[shauner111]

Batman spent the entire movie viewing Superman as the other - an alien, a monster. But in that moment when Superman is pleading for his mother, he's humanized. "Superman has a mother, just like me, he was a boy and grew up with a mom, he's afraid of her dying, just like me." Batman already knew Superman was a good guy, he admitted as much, but in that moment his own humanity and empathy was reawakened, and he saw Superman as an equal.

It was a brilliant scene.

He already assumed he had good parents before that, and then kills a bunch of thugs after that. What Batman is feeling in that scene is good on paper, but it's poorly executed.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

I'd argue that it was contrived to begin with. I'd argue that Affleck ALMOST saved that scene. Key word:almost.

 

[Marvin]

He already assumed he had good parents before that, and then kills a bunch of thugs after that. What Batman is feeling in that scene is good on paper, but it's poorly executed.

He assumes zod the alien god has parents as well...they do look human after all. That's not the same as april o'neil realizing the turtles have a father and are just teenagers like her own nephew, especially, if splinter was instead named(john) as her father, it strikes a legitimate cord, for humans are complex. Especially when someone that lives and obsessively fights everyday molded by what happened to his own mother.

The realization is that of clarks humanity, selflessness(most people beg for themselves), and most importantly, that of the humanity bruce has lost. For he's taken back to that same less than human creature that did the very opposite of save martha in front of a helpless child.
Not everyone is even attempting to see this beyond #same name. I suppose one possible alternative a 'better' director would choose is to have even less(see second flash back in that moment being overboard for some critics) faith in the audience and maybe even have bruce utter what I just said (verbatim)to himself...or lois(yikes). Avoid any confusion whatsoever.

As for this point about, goes back to his ways, no he thought there was no good left in man, but after his confrontation with an alien he thought the furthest thing from a man, he believes men are still good. But more to the point, the warehouse was him going back into nolan mode for nothing he did in there was beyond just that. Otherwise he would have taken out the lights and gunned them all down very very easy(and dishonorable) as opposed to the great lengths they showed him attemp....ah forget it.