Here is your Glorified Comic "consistency"

[phoenixstorm]

INTRODUCING THE CAT
Batman #1 (Spring 1940) saw the first appearance of a young woman known only as The Cat. Even though she wore no special costume as yet, Batman was so taken by her that after her stolen loot was recovered, he let her get away! This issue also marked the first appearance of the Joker, and if you happen to have a mint condition copy, it's now worth $50,000! Created by Bob Kane and Bill Finger, The Cat and The Joker would join the menagerie of colorful Bat-villains that would plague the Caped Crusader to this very day.

she wasnt even catwoman here!!!

EVOLUTION OF A VILLAIN
While the other villains in Batman's universe are recognizable even in their first appearance, it took several years for The Cat to become Catwoman. Kane's girlfriend would pose in various costumes while he tried out new names (Cat Woman, Cat-woman, etc.) until finally he and Finger settled on the now classic version. She also acquired a cat-o-nine-tails and a secret identity of Selina Kyle. Thus equipped, Catwoman would spend the next thirty years commiting a series of cat-related crimes and the occasional good deed to the delight of male comic book readers everywhere.


UNDER THE INFLUENCE
The dreaded Comics Code meant a de-emphasis on sex and violence during the fifties and early sixties. But the popularity of the Batman TV series brought with it a renewed interest in the classic villains, including Catwoman. For a while in the late sixties, she was drawn to resemble Julie Newmar's TV version.


THE MOD SQUAD
DC tried to "update" their female characters in the early seventies. For several years Catwoman wore a "mod" outfit, complete with buccaneer boots! This didn't last long and she soon returned to the classic costume of the fifties.


DEATH AND RESURRECTION
The classic Catwoman "died" in DC Superstars #17 in 1977. This was an Earth-2 story set in an alternate universe where at least she got to marry Bruce Wayne. In our universe, the classic Catwoman made her last appearance in the early '80's. However, we all know a cat has nine lives. In 1987 Frank Miller brought her back as part of the Batman: Year One series, but at a harsh price. Selina was now a former prostitute out for revenge after her pimp got way too rough.

He made her a prostitute!!!! What happened to the thief?? I guess since its in the comic you have no beef even though they revamped the entire character except for the name!!!

THE JIM BALENT ERA
With the success of Batman Returns, DC Comics apparently felt Catwoman could sustain a comic of her own. In August of 1993, after testing the waters with a four-part mini-series, Catwoman #1 hit the stands. Written by Jo Duffy and pencilled by the incomparable Jim Balent, Catwoman was born again, this time in an even more form-fitting purple costume and a physique that would make Pamela Anderson envious. Needless to say, it was an immediate hit and has appeared every month since.

THE NEW MILLENNIUM
Y2K brings a new creative team to the Catwoman comic and a new look for Catty (the costume change actually occurred in Catwoman #68). Bronwyn Carlson, Staz Johnson and Wayne Faucher promise to deliver a grittier, more realistic Catwoman. They do this by promptly throwing her in jail! As a result of her imprisonment, the Feline Fatale will emerge much changed, and not necessarily for the better!

This last is what they should have aimed for.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

DC had two phases.

Before 85 and after, meaning the pre-crisis and the after crisis (the current)

The pre-crisis sucked ass...so forget it and let it die

For me, Selina Kyle will always be a former hooker....because it gives her real and human flaws.
Selina Kyle run away from the girls only orphanage and had to live on her own.
She went to be a hooker, but, and this is what i would do, she would not have a pimp and only worked when she wanted and with the clients that she wanted.
During that time, at the same time she was a hooker, she was a thief too.
Then, using the Batman image as an icon, she change her life and Catwoman was born

 

[phoenixstorm]

My point is that it doesnt matter if it was in the comic or not or whatever...its HOW ITS DONE.

Its the writing! Its the directing! and then its the acting!

If the writing is solid then it doesnt matter if her name is patience price or Shenequa

Plot
Story
Dialogue
character development

These make a good movie. Not some blind committment to a characters name.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

Originally posted by phoenixstorm
My point is that it doesnt matter if it was in the comic or not or whatever...its HOW ITS DONE.

Its the writing! Its the directing! and then its the acting!

If the writing is solid then it doesnt matter if her name is patience price or Shenequa

Plot
Story
Dialogue
character development

These make a good movie. Not some blind committment to a characters name.

You can´t change a characters name!
A name is part of a person.
By changing that, you change the character.
It would be the same as to make movie about Jack the Ripper and call him Ralph the Butcher
A name is part of the identity of a person.

YOU CAN´T ERASE A PERSONS IDENTITY

 

[phoenixstorm]

AlloCiné: How does a French director find himself in charge of a project like "Catwoman"?

Pitof: I don't know (laughs). After the incredible experience of "Alien Resurrection" (Note to reader: where he was in charge of visual effects), I had the urge to steer towards the Hollywood studios. That opportunity finally arrived with an assistant of my American agent who had shopped Vidocq (film title) to several producers...And that's how I became connected to Catwoman

AlloCiné: What stage of preproduction is "Catwoman" currently in?

Pitof: For the moment, the film is still in development. We have Halle Berry interested in starring. Things are moving ahead, but I really can't tell you much more: the script isn't finished yet, and things are still a bit crazy. We hope to start filming in fall 2003 for a summer 2004 opening at least.

AlloCiné: Do you think you might call some of your friends from Duboi for certain f/x?

Pitof: We are currently evaluating how to work with French and foreign partners for special effects. This is clearly the subject of the day (Note to reader: Pitof was leaving for Warner Bros. Studios in Los Angeles once we finished this telephone interview).

AlloCiné: With "Vidocq", it appeared that you had already used the superhero theme...do you think that's what showed Warners that you were the man for the job?

Pitof: Absolutely. Vidocq could absolutely be seen as a superhero with a French theme. At the same time, I don't think that it was a major factor in the studios decision to hire me, it was more the universe of the film and the unique imagery and design that attracted Warners.

AlloCiné: Let's talk about the character, made ultimately popular with "Batman Returns" How are you going to approach the character?

Pitof: Catwoman is a superhero with a strong foundation but also the traits of a cat like night vision, the ability to easily jump like a cat, a completely different instinct as well as many other abilities that make her superhuman. She also knows that she doesn't have Superman's powers and that she is bound by the laws of physics.

She's also a super heroin who transcends comics. She's a sex symbol of cat-like femininity, which to my sense is on an entirely different path than that of traditional superheroes. Also, unlike other superheroes where there is only ONE Superman or ONE Batman, le concept of multiple Catwomen has existed since the beginning that any woman could be Catwoman.

Now the idea is to develop this character in a relatively realistic world à la Spider-Man. We'll probably set it in the near future but in a North American urban setting, which is more classic. The main idea is to develop a female superhero and give her depth not to make her a bimbo or a sexy vigilante. She's a woman's hero for women.

AlloCiné: For the audience, the character of Catwoman remains Michelle Pfeiffer in that sexy vinyl outfit of "Batman Returns". How are you going to try to get away from that icon?

Pitof: It's always difficult when you have such an icon or symbol, but everything is going to be different: there will be no direct link with Batman, nor will there be Batman-esque imagery and it won't be set in Gotham City. The story will be different and the costume will be different. We aren't keeping anything from Catwoman except the original idea: the character. The idea is to begin her story from scratch, and possibly begin a franchise.

AlloCiné: Hally Berry has recently been signed to be your star, why such a decision?

Pitof: First of all because she is an excellent actress. We also needed someone who could equally give the convincing performance of two distinct personalities: the cat and the woman. This woman must be able to convey by way of her face and body language the feeling of a feline, which Hally Berry definitely has.

AlloCiné: What do you make of the sudden mass interest in comic book adaptations: new superheroes for the American public, lots of money for the studios or true artistic interest in very interesting and profound characters?

Pitof: I think it a mix of all three. There really is an interest in the characters and with the digital technology, which is now able to really breath life into them. Until now, the television shows and cartoon series were always a bit campy, and we kept the superheroes in that realm. Now, we have the technology to really make these characters exciting in a realistic manner, et finally put onto film exactly what we've been imagining since we began reading the comics.

I think that this new wave of interest isn't going to quell any time soon, since the audiences haven't quite had enough as yet of these characters and their worlds.

This is a two-man team, which continues their manufacture: one part studio/production/creators and the other part is the public.

AlloCiné: Let's talk about the audience: Warner Bros. is going to try and make "Catwoman", a new "Superman" and at least two new "Batman" movies. Isn't there a risk of superhero "overdose" or overkill with the superhero genre?

Pitof: I don't think so since every time the audience is just a little bit different: the Batman audience isn't necessarily the same that say "Catwoman" or "Superman" would have. I think that there might be too much at some point, but the audience always wants more as we can see with "Daredevil" because these films follow a formula that we know we are going to see, and enjoy. So it's really, in quotation marks, an entertainment standard without too many surprises.

AlloCiné: According to you, what makes a good superhero movie and what makes a bad one?

Pitof: A good one is one that meets our expectations, and must be as true to it's origins without being limited by them. This is a difficult task: You have to keep the character true to the original comic and make them believable without going below the audience's expectations. The best example is Spider-Man: Sam Raimi added something to the original with the unexpected casting of Tobey Maguire while keeping with the laws of the spider man character.

AlloCiné: You're currently developing this film in Hollywood. How is the American film industry different than our French one?

Pitof: The answer is in your question! We're talking apples and oranges. In France, movies are more artistic, while in Los Angeles, the industry is geared towards making money. They are completely different. I thank Jean-Pierre Jeunet for having given me experience so that I could understand the nuts and bolts of the industry (note to reader: experience on Alien Resurrection).

In Hollywood, the producer has no power: he's an employee just like anyone else. I am in a "positive phase" where the studio asks my opinion on what I will do, knowing that the entire project is still in development. But, once that's over with, if I can only direct exactly what they want and nothing else, I'll thank them and return to France. That's how this system is, which is obviously stressful, especially at the control level because we have all this freedom at the beginning, but if the studio isn't seeing exactly what they want "good-bye".

We want to thank 'Steph' for giving everyone a chance to read the article!

 

[The Batman]

you know what i find so funny?

you posted all that, and you still dont understand why fanboys are angry.

Catwoman is Selina Kyle, not Paitience Price

I didnt have to post a 5 paragraph essay to prove my point....

 

[phoenixstorm]

Originally posted by The Batman
you know what i find so funny?

you posted all that, and you still dont understand why fanboys are angry.

Catwoman is Selina Kyle, not Paitience Price

I didnt have to post a 5 paragraph essay to prove my point....

so just because the character's name is selina kyle that makes her catwoman????

IN batman returns michelles character had NOTHING to do with the selina kyle in the comic book. She was a freaking secretary!!! She got turned into catwoman by a bunch of freaky cats!!!

So just because they named her selina kyle it made it okay to ignore he comic book source material which most people on here are griping about??

That makes no sense.

To me Batman Returns worked because of TIm Burton's direction and writing and michelle. That character they created had nothing to do with who selina kyle was in the comics her name could have been patience price for all it mattered because the name didn't matter if they weret going to use the comic as source material.

My point is that if its done right it doesnt matter.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

Originally posted by phoenixstorm
so just because the character's name is selina kyle that makes her catwoman????

IN batman returns michelles character had NOTHING to do with the selina kyle in the comic book. She was a freaking secretary!!! She got turned into catwoman by a bunch of freaky cats!!!

So just because they named her selina kyle it made it okay to ignore he comic book source material which most people on here are griping about??

That makes no sense.

To me Batman Returns worked because of TIm Burton's direction and writing and michelle. That character they created had nothing to do with who selina kyle was in the comics her name could have been patience price for all it mattered because the name didn't matter if they weret going to use the comic as source material.

My point is that if its done right it doesnt matter.

But, there is where you are wrong...it does matter.

Batman Returns worked because it was Tim Burton´s vision, and not the real Batman.
It was like an Elseworld version of Batman...and a Elseworld version of Catwoman.

Times have changed......it´s time to make a real adaptation.

Besides, like i said before, a name it´s part of an identity.
By naming her Selina Kyle, at least they got her identity right...that is enough to some fans.
If she wasn´t Selina Kyle, i bet that everyone would hate it.

Why did they make a Catwoman movie, if they were not going to make an adaptation of Catwoman?
It would be better if they created a new character like many did (Robocop, Darkman, Unbreakable,....)

 

[phoenixstorm]

Originally posted by Isildur´s Heir
But, there is where you are wrong...it does matter.

Batman Returns worked because it was Tim Burton´s vision, and not the real Batman.
It was like an Elseworld version of Batman...and a Elseworld version of Catwoman.

Times have changed......it´s time to make a real adaptation.

Besides, like i said before, a name it´s part of an identity.
By naming her Selina Kyle, at least they got her identity right...that is enough to some fans.
If she wasn´t Selina Kyle, i bet that everyone would hate it.

well then why aren't you chalking this one up to another elseworld version of catwoman???

also even though they got the name right that character was not selina kyle.

Look in the end it didn't matter that michelles catwoman wasn't the real catwoman because she and tim pulled it off. it was good.

the same applies here. if pitof and the writer get it right and halle does a good job it wont' matter what her name is.

 

[Lord Blackbolt]

You seem to miss the point.... Jean Grey and Storm went through changes in the comic too.... From your user name I see you like X-men at least.

Even the movie didn't portray them perfectly..... but why do poeple like them.... they still had a part of the comic character in the movie.

So would you like a Storm spin-off or a X-men movie with a character called Storm... but make her white and change her identity to Whitney... and he's not a mutant.

Also... I don't think you got the premise Of the Catwoman origin in Burton's version. The cats didn't give her the powers.... she fell from a window and hit her head, and the first thing she saw was a cat. Just like when Bruce fell in the Cave and saw the Bat...and decided to become the persona of one.

As for her not being a hooker.... we don't know what she used to do before she was a secretary. As for the burgular thing.... If they had done THIS movie right.... they could have explore that aspect.

So if you think about it.... Burton's version wasn't really that out there...... not like this movie.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

I´m going to answer with my last post...

Originally posted by phoenixstorm
well then why aren't you chalking this one up to another elseworld version of catwoman???

Times have changed......it´s time to make a real adaptation

also even though they got the name right that character was not selina kyle.

Besides, like i said before, a name it´s part of an identity.
By naming her Selina Kyle, at least they got her identity right...that is enough to some fans

Originally posted by phoenixstorm
Look in the end it didn't matter that michelles catwoman wasn't the real catwoman because she and tim pulled it off. it was good.

It didn´t mattered because it was Tim Burton and Tim is a GREAT director.
If it was another director making it, it would most likely suck

Originally posted by phoenixstorm
the same applies here. if pitof and the writer get it right and halle does a good job it wont' matter what her name is.

Yes...like i said, the movie can be a great movie in the end.
I never said it would be a bad movie.
And if it is a great movie, i will look at it as an Elseworld movie....but, like i said before....TIMES HAVE CHANGED
That´s why i would have hated if Tim Burton would have made Superman afterall.
Tim Burton is a great director (like i said before) and i bet he would have made a great movie, just like Cage would have make a great Superman (because he is a great actor).
He is totally wrong for the part.....but, as it would have been Tim Burton´s Superman and that means an Elseworld version, it would have not minded.

An Elseworld movie only works if they are really making an Elseword movie (this is not the case) or if the movie is great, but as nothing to do with the character.
In the end, you are "obliged" to see it as an Elseworld movie....

But, the second option, only works in the end (when you see the movie), before seeing it...........IT SUCKS, because it´s ridiculous to make a movie with nothing to do with the character (i hope this makes sense, because it does to me)

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

Just another thing.
The "Times have changed" issue is the "fault" of only one...Marvel.
Marvel is the one to "blame" (thank God for Marvel)

If Marvel would never made a movie, and all of a sudden, WB said, let´s make a Catwoman movie...but, the movie had nothing to do with the character, you reaction would be....

"It doesn´t have nothing to do with the character, but....f**k it, maybe it´s cool"

Marvel changed that, when they started maing great adaptation and great movies.
They begun making real adaptations.......

So, TIMES HAVE INDEED CHANGED!!
Courtesy of Marvel

 

[DDRSkata]

The difference between Tim Burton's Catwoman and this crap is that Burton's kept the important parts of the character. Selina Kyle, Gotham, Batman and her love for him, none of this League of Extraordinary Catwomen bull...whether or not it happened in the comics, it was still the character, or at least the important parts. And I think the scaffolding and stuff saved her and she awoke in the middle of crazy cats and went psycho. But this new character...no Selina Kyle, no Gotham, no MENTION of Batman, love with some detective, starting as a vet fighting an evil cosmetics corporation for animal testing, being a superhero, having cat powers, this League of Extraordinary Catwomen crap, a script which, if those four pages are any indication, is crap...I don't know about you, but I have a bleak outlook on the whole thing.

 

[Joseph_Freefall]

Originally posted by Joseph_Freefall
actually, I read an article a few years ago that spoke about how Catwoman was even possible in BMR. From what I can recall, they mentioned that her fall was slowed by those "curtains" she went through on the way down (and I doubt they just threw that into the scene for no reason) and then was cushioned by the snow. Not leaving her totally unharmed, mind you. And the sensation of the cats biting her sort of shocked her nerves back into consciousness. Her damaged brain just fell into the Catwoman "persona". And for the "deaths", from what I recall, the article said that the 9 lives thing was all an illusion in Selina's damaged mind. Falling into that greenhouse. Getting shot (non-vital organs?) and whatnot. This is all from memory, mind you.

though Skata probably has a better word for my use of "curtains" there. Scaffolding works better.

But I like to ride both sides of the fence: what didn't make sense was when she was destroying her apartment upon arriving and all those cats started popping up. But that's Tim Burton for ya.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

Originally posted by Joseph_Freefall
But I like to ride both sides of the fence: what didn't make sense was when she was destroying her apartment upon arriving and all those cats started popping up. But that's Tim Burton for ya.

No....it did a lot of sense.

When she was destroying her apartment, Selina Kyle was "dying" and Catwoman being born.
How much more she destroyed her apartment, was as much as she was "dead" and Catwoman born
That´s why the cats showed up.....to "welcome" Catwoman´s birth.

But, yeah....that´s Tim Burton for ya......Tim Burton at his best.

 

[Leon the Professional]

I think ignorant people shouldn't be allowed to post, let alone start threads.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

Originally posted by Leon the Professional
I think ignorant people shouldn't be allowed to post, let alone start threads.

Don´t be like that, everyone as the right to express their feelings

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

Originally posted by Leon the Professional
I think ignorant people shouldn't be allowed to post, let alone start threads.

Don´t be like that, everyone as the right to express their feelings and ideas

 

[phoenixstorm]

Originally posted by Leon the Professional
I think ignorant people shouldn't be allowed to post, let alone start threads.

Then why exactly are you posting?


Anyway I see the point some of you are making. They should have just made her selina kyle, kept it in gotham, and they didnt even have to have batman in it since it is a catwoman movie. They also should have kept the cat burgular aspect and could have even brought in a new catwoman enemy from her past so we could explore her origin. It would have worked imo and the changes aren't that drastic or expensive.

I mean if they own the rights to catwoman why not just use selina instead of making a new character? Are they hoping to spin this character off into a new book etc...

 

[Joseph_Freefall]

Originally posted by phoenixstorm
Then why exactly are you posting?


Anyway I see the point some of you are making. They should have just made her selina kyle, kept it in gotham, and they didnt even have to have batman in it since it is a catwoman movie. They also should have kept the cat burgular aspect and could have even brought in a new catwoman enemy from her past so we could explore her origin. It would have worked imo and the changes aren't that drastic or expensive.

I mean if they own the rights to catwoman why not just use selina instead of making a new character? Are they hoping to spin this character off into a new book etc...

umm...**looks at your last post...looks back at all your other posts in this thread. looks at your last post again...looks back at all your other posts in this thread once more**...are you the same person?

 

[Lord Blackbolt]

Looks like we showed someone the light.

 

[Leon the Professional]

Originally posted by phoenixstorm
Then why exactly are you posting?


Anyway I see the point some of you are making. They should have just made her selina kyle, kept it in gotham, and they didnt even have to have batman in it since it is a catwoman movie. They also should have kept the cat burgular aspect and could have even brought in a new catwoman enemy from her past so we could explore her origin. It would have worked imo and the changes aren't that drastic or expensive.

I mean if they own the rights to catwoman why not just use selina instead of making a new character? Are they hoping to spin this character off into a new book etc...

I'm sorry for offending you, but I am just sick of people coming onto the Catwoman board and defending the movie calling us stubborn unreasonable fanboys when they clearly have no understanding of why we are so against it: the fact that this movie has nothing to do with Catwoman yet claims to be about Catwoman.

Now see in this post, you ARE making a lot of sense and you do seem to understand our problem with this movie, so I'm figuring you've changed your mind on the subject for some reason. On the otherhand, you're first post makes you sound like a completely different person who was just entirely missing the point, and the sarcastic title of your thread didn't help.

 

[Leon the Professional]

Also, I didn't mean ignorant as in stupid, I meant ignorant as in ignorant of why the "Catwoman" movie is ****ed up.

 

[DavidTyler]

Originally posted by phoenixstorm
so just because the character's name is selina kyle that makes her catwoman????

IN batman returns michelles character had NOTHING to do with the selina kyle in the comic book. She was a freaking secretary!!! She got turned into catwoman by a bunch of freaky cats!!!

Exactly why I really don't like Burton's take on Catwoman. Out of all of the interpretations, the only one I like is Miller's.

He gave her a reason to be who she is. His origin for her explains why she's well capable of taking care of herself and why she is so hard.

Everything before that was kind of lame.

Some changes are good. Some aren't.

 

[dk]

Originally posted by phoenixstorm
so just because the character's name is selina kyle that makes her catwoman????

No. Selina Kyle...cat-burglar... has criminal tendencies, but a set of morals she operates by... has a history with Batman...sexy, independent, self-reliant. THAT'S Catwoman.

Your list of points to the consistency of the character mainly have to do with her costume, or her visual appearance. Yes, that's changed a few times over the years - but from 1941 to 1985, Catwoman even kept the same look, except for brief, unsuccessful periods.

The description in my first paragraph is what makes the character Catwoman, IMO. You'll notice Patience Price has little or nothing in common with most of it.