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House approves stiff gas-gouging penalties

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House approves stiff gas-gouging penalties

Bill would ban 'excessive' prices; White House threatens veto


WASHINGTON - The House, eager to do something about record high gasoline prices in advance of the Memorial Day weekend, voted narrowly Wednesday to approve stiff penalties for those found guilty of gasoline price gouging.
The bill directs the Federal Trade Commission and Justice Department to go after oil companies, traders or retail operators if they take “unfair advantage” or charge “unconscionably excessive” prices for gasoline and other fuels.
The White House called the measure a form of price controls that could result in fuel shortages. It said President Bush would be urged to veto the legislation should it pass Congress.

The bill needed the approval of two-thirds of the members of the House because the leadership considered it under an expedited legislative process. Thus, the 284-141 vote was only one over the threshold for passage. A similar measure is being considered by the Senate.
The bill would for the first time create a federal law making energy price gouging illegal. It would cover not only gasoline, but also other fuels such as natural gas and heating oil.
Rep. Bart Stupak, D-Mich., its chief sponsor, in urging his colleagues to support the bill said the issue was whether “to side with Big Oil (or) ... side with consumers who are being ripped off at the gas pump.”
But Stupak was forced to soften the bill so that he could get it passed by requiring a president to first declare an energy emergency before the anti-gouging law could be enforced. Oil-state Democrats had wanted such limits.
The bill calls for criminal penalties of up to $150 million for corporations and up to $2 million and a jail sentence of up to 10 years for individuals found to be engaged in price gouging.
Opponents said the legislation was too vague and amounts to price controls.
“I don’t know what ‘unconscionably excessive’ means,” Rep. Joe Barton, R-Texas, complained, referring to a phrase that would trigger a price gouging prosecution.
Barton said today’s high gasoline prices are the result of supply and demand and not price gouging. “Demand has gone up and supply has not gone up. ... and the price has gone up,” said Barton.
The White House said the administration “strongly opposes” the bill and the president would be urged to veto it if it passes Congress.
It “would harm consumers, the very people the bill is touted to protect,” said a White House statement to lawmakers. It said price gouging legislation would amount to “price controls and in some cases bring back long gas lines reminiscent of the 1970s.”

Oil company lobbyists have argued that when there are tight markets and rising prices, the vague gouging definition would inhibit refiners and retailers from adding supplies for fear of being taken to court.
“Mom-and-pop grocer and gasoline station owners can’t wonder what every court is going to decide,” said Rep. Roy Blunt, R-Mo., the minority whip. He said the law would create “undue hardship for ... people trying to make a living.”
But the bill’s supporters argued that states can’t combat energy price gouging, leaving motorists at the whim of arbitrary oil company pricing. Twenty-nine states currently have energy price-gouging laws, but they vary in detail and under in terms of what conditions would trigger them.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18825910/
 
For a product that has high elasticity like petrol, I think steep penalties for price gouging is necessary. Consumers have to be protected, especially since collusion is hard to prove and at this time there are no alternatives.
 
I've got two points...

  • Prices need to be high enough to encourage research it alternative fuels
  • Taking advantage of things such as hurricane Katrina is wrong and companies shouldn't be allowed to pump up prices like that.
 
There's a difference between price controls and gouging the prices to where we're being raped in the ass. I support this measure, considering that gas is something that is needed, not a luxury.
 
Why does it not surprise me that Bush is against this? :whatever:
 
For a product that has high elasticity like petrol, I think steep penalties for price gouging is necessary. Consumers have to be protected, especially since collusion is hard to prove and at this time there are no alternatives.

I'm confused. Do you mean high inelasticity? Because there isn't really a good alternative for gas when prices rise, and it doesn't seem that an increase in price creates a greater decrease in customers.
 
I voted yes because price gouging is supposed to be illegal anyway. So I guess they're just increasing the penalties for the oil companies. The question is, what will the government do with any fines. Give the to alternative fuel developers?
 
I voted yes. I remember in 05, at the congressional hearings, Republicans refused to have the oil company executives testify under oath.

http://money.cnn.com/2005/11/09/news/economy/oil_hearing/

The industry's third-quarter profits jumped 62 percent to nearly $26 billion as Exxon Mobil, the nation's biggest oil company, posted the fattest corporate profit in history. Oil company's stocks are up some 40 percent from a year ago, giving big gains to shareholders.
Along with talk of a tax on industry profits, there's been speculation that the oil companies were guilty of price gouging following Hurricane Katrina, or of not investing enough in refineries in order to manipulate the market and increase profits.

Two senators at the hearing, Ron Wyden, D-Ore., and John Sununu, R-N.H., both said Congress should look at rolling back tax breaks given to the oil industry in the energy bill earlier this year. Wyden estimated the tax breaks were worth $2.6 billion.
 
This is why I hate corporate America.

It wouldn't be so bad if there was something other than oil to use. Then every time big oil got greedy and gouged prices, the other guys cut undercut them and steal all the money (feeding the greed the legal way :up)
 
I've got two points...
  • Prices need to be high enough to encourage research it alternative fuels
  • Taking advantage of things such as hurricane Katrina is wrong and companies shouldn't be allowed to pump up prices like that.

High prices do not really encourage market expansion into something cheaper, as in it's more profitable to sell the oil intead.

However the government could subsidize their profits, and pass legistation that says if they raise their prices to make up for the loss they suffer as a result of the government slashing their profits will be considered price gouging.

Or the government could subsizidize their profits and simply use the money to pay more off more deficit that middle class citizens would have to pay back, making it easier for us to buy that expensive gas.
 
There's a difference between price controls and gouging the prices to where we're being raped in the ass. I support this measure, considering that gas is something that is needed, not a luxury.

Blast that horrible just like the last do nothing congress, with another economic social policy! :woot:
 
Blast that horrible just like the last do nothing congress, with another economic social policy! :woot:

What, I can't agree with the Democrats over the Republicans for once? :cmad:

That said, it's a damn shame that this won't likely be enacted due to Bush's most likely veto. So technically, they remain a do-nothing Congress. :D
 
What, I can't agree with the Democrats over the Republicans for once? :cmad:

That said, it's a damn shame that this won't likely be enacted due to Bush's most likely veto. So technically, they remain a do-nothing Congress. :D

Well I guess I have to give you that one.
 
However, Bush will only be president for another 18 months, and you can't judge the democrat majority by their first measily two years under the rule of a Republican president. It's been made clear in the last several months what kind of proposed laws will become actual law once Bush and his veto pen are outta there.
 
Whenever I think there's no way I could possibly be more disgusted with President Bush, he finds a way to prove me wrong.

jag
 
just cause it gets passed now. doesnt mean its gonna happen. they still have to draft a final bill, put it back through the house AND the senate. then bush has to sign it












Good Luck.
 
just cause it gets passed now. doesnt mean its gonna happen. they still have to draft a final bill, put it back through the house AND the senate. then bush has to sign it.
Good Luck.


It probably wont happen, but the hard hit he will take from the media and American sentiment will make sure that our nominees will promise in their campaign that they will sign it if it passes when they our President.

It's the game.
 
Whenever I think there's no way I could possibly be more disgusted with President Bush, he finds a way to prove me wrong.

jag

Couldn't agree more.

What makes it even more insulting is that the entire Bush family is practically bathed in the oil industry. All they're doing is basically stopping Congress from having their profits be raised by raping the money away from the rest of us.
 
I would support it.THINK ABOUT IT,you pay tons of money for gas.While oil companies make the most profits in history,and where does that money go?Not into green research,but into their pockets.They dont care about you,and yet all of you still buy..
 
For a product that has high elasticity like petrol, I think steep penalties for price gouging is necessary. Consumers have to be protected, especially since collusion is hard to prove and at this time there are no alternatives.

There are alternatives... you have to have a diesel engine, then you can use Biodiesel and make it yourself. You can often get the raw materials for free from local restaurants (old french fry oil). However you would have to buy the filtering equipment (which may cost $1000).

wikipedia said:
Biodiesel refers to a diesel-equivalent, processed fuel derived from biological sources (such as vegetable oils), which can be used in unmodified diesel-engine vehicles. It is thus distinguished from the straight vegetable oils (SVO) or waste vegetable oils (WVO) used as fuels in some diesel vehicles

I think Mythbusters did an episode on it too.
 
This is nothing more the lip-service from the House to the American people, even if this passes nothing will change. Prices will go down for 2-3 weeks, then start inching back up. Why are we really complaining, those oil execs deserve to own their own island.
 
So, you guys really think that the Bush Administration can set the prices for gas? You guys really think that if this bill becomes a law, that you will all see gas prices plummet? As others have said, if this were to pass, gas might go down for a week then it'll go right back up. Ya wanna know why? We Americans need it, and there isn't that much of it going around. In other words, the demand is really high and the supply isn't so high. Guys its not that hard to understand. Have any of you even graduated high school yet? Also, if the gas prices hurt you that bad, then get a job. If you already have a job, get a better one. Also, dont biitch that you cant find work, you can, you just gotta get off your ass and look for it. Have a nice day fellas. :up:
 
So, you guys really think that the Bush Administration can set the prices for gas? You guys really think that if this bill becomes a law, that you will all see gas prices plummet? As others have said, if this were to pass, gas might go down for a week then it'll go right back up. Ya wanna know why? We Americans need it, and there isn't that much of it going around. In other words, the demand is really high and the supply isn't so high. Guys its not that hard to understand. Have any of you even graduated high school yet? Also, if the gas prices hurt you that bad, then get a job. If you already have a job, get a better one. Also, dont biitch that you cant find work, you can, you just gotta get off your ass and look for it. Have a nice day fellas. :up:

words of wisdom. :whatever:
 

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