how does revealing your identity....

TheIntellectual

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to the government equate to the public knowing as well? It's wierd to me that they've never revealed what exactly "registering with the government" means. Does this mean they've got to go in front of the media and take off their marks, or just the President himself? This is a simple question with hopefully a simple answer... maybe I just missed it or something. Thanks.
 
i think the SHRA was intende for supers to identfy themselve to the federal athourities ONLY but the writers mixed it up
 
no, it's still just to the authorities, no one but Parker and Stark who have registered have gone totally public, and they did it to show they're totally 100% behind the act...the danger is, what if someone were to hack into the governments files (because that's so hard and never happens, especially when you have guys like The Answer, or frickin psychics running around) and finds out every single heroes identity? they could expose them all, or just go through and pick off there families, and then them one by one :o
 
It's not just villains that the heroes have to worry about. The government could use their identities to blackmail them into going along with its agenda, the government could leak it like they did with Speedball's, a lone wolf inside the government could use the IDs for nefarious ends... basically, the number of things that could go wrong by telling as huge an organization as the government their identities is proof enough of the adage that the best way to keep a secret is to keep it between as few people as possible.
 
They haven't gotten it mixed up. Readers are getting it mixed up because they seem to not be READING these books.

When you register you're only sending your ID to the government. Spider-Man revealed because Tony asked him to do it, so that Peter could still work with him on getting the Act to work smoothly. So, Peter had to make a huge decision. Though Aunt May sort of had a hand in getting Peter to be OK with it.

You should read Amazing Spider-Man # 533. Pete does some good old fashioned owning on Stark a couple times in there.
 
They just wanted Spider-man to reveal to the public to set an example.
 
TheIntellectual said:
to the government equate to the public knowing as well? It's wierd to me that they've never revealed what exactly "registering with the government" means. Does this mean they've got to go in front of the media and take off their marks, or just the President himself? This is a simple question with hopefully a simple answer... maybe I just missed it or something. Thanks.
Basically, CIVIL WAR at its core is an allegory about the dangers of "allowing government intrusion into your life in the name of security". As such, it sometimes blurs the rules of their own SHRA law in the name of telling a more dramatic story to that end.

You're correct; the letter of the SHRA says that a superhero has to identify themselves to the government. NOT the media, and NOT the public; essentially like undercover cops, agents, and intelligence spies do. You'll notice that a good number of the heroes who are pro-SHRA are heroes who either lack a "civilian" family, have had their identity public before, or their only family are conviently other superheroes (such as the case of Mr. Fantastic and the Four, and Yellowjacket and his wife, Wasp). However, at least according to FRONTLINE #1, apparently in the eyes of the media, a superhero who endorses the SHRA yet still keeps secret from the public (which ISN'T illegal) is somehow "hypocritical". Because, well, its a shocking thing when superheroes are hypocrites, because surely elected politicians sure aren't. Or celebrities or pro atheletes, who unlike superheroes or even corruptable politicians, do absolutely nothing for the public good besides distract us from what's REALLY important. :rolleyes: Anyway, to alleve this "hypocrisy", Iron Man revealed his identity again (FRONTLINE #2 had some in the media claim it was "little surprise" after his past reveals), and part of why Spider-Man (coincidentally, the only pro-SHRA hero so far who has a civilian family to worry about) did his reveal (although he only went through with it when May gave him his blessing; MJ was skeptical and he was going to run out on even Stark before May claimed it was the right thing to do).

Revealing your identity to the feds as a superhero is a dangerous step in itself, as others have stated. Firstly, it makes it much easier for that secret to be leaked; one FBI agent selling his ID to a tabloid turned Daredevil's life upside down, for instance. Plus, villians can either hack into gov't computer files or bribe/threaten some agent or stooge into revealing someone's ID. Secondly, it gives the government more control and leverage over superheroes, which is a core reason why the SHRA was passed in the wake of the Stamford Incident (the gov't felt after the "recklessness" of the New Warriors, that superheroes needed to be regulated and held accountable). The government "can tell you who the supervillians are" or outright blackmail a hero into doing their bidding (or punishing them when they won't, like Speedball is suffering). Thirdly, the American gov't in the Marvel Universe is incredibly corrupt and untrustworthy, a fact that was true before Pres. Bush was elected and before Joe Q was EIC (of couse, to be fair, the 80's had them "nasty demons", Reagan and Bush Sr, so there was plenty to rebel against). The MU U.S. gov't has been willing, for instance, to impose draconian rules and laws against mutants, even at times authorizing, or at least looking the other way, when hulking robots fly out and attack them in city streets. The gov't has also been willing to allow any supervillian, regardless of their past crimes, to get a badge and become an agent if they agree to play along and be a stooge (of course, this rarely lasts as the villian usually does it for their temporary convience; the Thunderbolts so far are a notable exception). Examples include Mystique and her then "Brotherhood of Evil Mutants" (Blob, Pyro, Avalanche, and Destiny), Sabretooth, Puppet Master, and even Venom. The SHRA is an act that does a lot to punish honest superheroes who just want some privacy, while doing nothing against actual supervillians, and in fact gives the villians MAJOR advantages because it either makes it easier for them to learn the ID's of their enemies or even captitilize on the anti-superhero emotions to purge their criminal records and "make a deal".

Basically, it sort of blurs the line between hero and villian, which in philosophy is very dangerous, because it seems to pretend that "real" evil doesn't exist.

And yes, Spider-Man is being set up as the big "cautionary tale" of the SHRA. He'll suffer some new loss and pain and whatnot, to prove to the world that SHRA won't work. As a character, he should know better by now to have gone down this far, but "the story must go on", after all.
 
Well I'm just waiting for this nightmare to end hoping that Thor will be back
 
I can see his new tragedy. Aunt May dying again? Pfft, big loss. It's not like she hasn't died before, now if MJ dies he'll be coming after IM. I know I would.
 
I thought MJ was going to bite it for sure this time.
 
I hope she doesn't, I think supermodel nookie is the only thing keeping Pete from going off the deep end.
 
Well now that he's out of the phone booth (I hate that they say "out of the closet") I'm sure he'll have women knocking down his door to get a bit of web in their face.
 
MJ and Aunt May are gonna bite it, and Spidermans gonna go beserk, Venom Symbioate willl attach back onto him, and he'll be a villan for about a year.
 
I don't think they'll die. Joe Q said he didn't want to make Peter a divorcee or a widower.
 
TheCorpulent1 said:
I don't think they'll die. Joe Q said he didn't want to make Peter a divorcee or a widower.
In a more recent Con appearence, however, Joe Q claimed a funeral for MJ would be "the saddest funeral in the world" right now. He plays coy in interviews a lot (for lack of a better term), but lord knows he sees pissing off fans as "sales gold" and has a full fledged vendetta for any married Marvel superhero. He has the gall to blast the 80's Spider-marriage as a "stunt" while at the same time shamelessly trying to convince us that BP/Storm makes sense and isn't, well, also a manufactured "stunt" in 2006.
 
The whole premise of CIVIL WAR is flawed since Enemy of the State already stated that SHIELD knew who the "capes" were, however the story just exists as an allusion to things like the Patriot Act and the NSA wire tapping. Giving up freedom for security.
 
Technically SHIELD isn't part of the US government in the 616 universe, so it wouldn't have any bearing on the SHRA. Of course, I think I've seen it mentioned in the Civil War comics that the heroes would basically be registering through SHIELD, in which case that argument would be moot and it would seem that Millar just got his facts about SHIELD wrong.
 
TheCorpulent1 said:
Technically SHIELD isn't part of the US government in the 616 universe, so it wouldn't have any bearing on the SHRA. Of course, I think I've seen it mentioned in the Civil War comics that the heroes would basically be registering through SHIELD, in which case that argument would be moot and it would seem that Millar just got his facts about SHIELD wrong.
Quite frankly, ever since Ultimate came out and had their version of SHIELD be a de-facto U.S. task force, the 616 version has seemed to lean closer and closer to imitating that model, especially when you consider that Bendis & Millar, the two writers who created most of the Ultimate universe, writing major storylines that depict them. Bendis gave token reference to SHIELD in 616 being "international" in some NA stories, but more often than not its depicted as doing whatever the U.S. gov't wants (even if its not directly stated).

Sort of like how 616 Spider-Man has conviently had more trouble keeping his mask on after the "helpless damsel" routine of USM.

I'm not an extremist fan who thinks this is some "deliberate" Marvel conspiracy to "wipe out 616", because they'd never do that so long as they can sell both. I do think its a result of some lax editorial imput and allowing some "high selling" writers to not have to suffer any constraints. Heck, Bendis & Millar are INCLUDED in the "High Council"-esque creator meetings. You don't do that if you intend to one day say, "Look, you totally got Count Nefaria's powers wrong, please change it".
 
I've noticed a push towards the Ultimate SHIELD model in the 616 universe, too. Brubaker's Captain America is now basically the only place that SHIELD still feels like SHIELD to me. By that I mean the international spy/intelligence agency rather than the more militarized, US combat force of the Ultimate universe.
 
perhaps marvel is going to have control of shield go from the un to the us government
 
Looks that way, if they haven't unofficially done so already. Kind of lame that it basically resulted from two writers who started out in the Ultimate universe screwing up a lot, but I can't say it'd result in a huge change in SHIELD itself.
 
3dman27 said:
perhaps marvel is going to have control of shield go from the un to the us government
The irony is, that if you follow some news stories, especially the "oil for food" scandal and allegations of U.N. "peacekeepers" erm, taking "advantage" of young children, the U.N. in some ways is just as corrupt as the U.S. gov't is usually depicted as being (or is, depending on your opinion). But its a toy of the Liberal side, and as Marvel makes no secret of being Liberal, I'm sure they want to avoid admitting that things like corruption, manipulation, etc. are a HUMAN, as in "international" problem, and focus on it as a U.S. problem.

At least until a Democrat is President. Mark my words, if a Demo is president in '08, all these "how horrible America is" stories will decrease at least 50%.

Frankly, the sooner people realize that many problems aren't American problems, but problems the entire world faces (only elsewhere, we rarely hear about it as much or in much detail), the better off things may be. Or not.
 
Umm, they do have problems with corruption in other countries, in the Marvel Universe. People saying they don't are just getting way too defensive about the U.S.
 
TheCorpulent1 said:
I've noticed a push towards the Ultimate SHIELD model in the 616 universe, too. Brubaker's Captain America is now basically the only place that SHIELD still feels like SHIELD to me. By that I mean the international spy/intelligence agency rather than the more militarized, US combat force of the Ultimate universe.


Yeah, SHIELD in Cap is still that Global Spy Agency we know and love.
 

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