How Flawed is Man of Steel?

[rogbngp]

Please chose the ratio of how flawed you feel Man of Steel is and... if you feel so inclined... state why you believe that to be the case.

(Please vote, that's the main point of this thing!)

 

[BH/HHH]

Dude another MOS topic lol

Well I will say about 2-3% for me. There is no such thing as a flawless movie though, it's just whether you can live a film despite its flaws.

 

[Flint Marko]

BvS can't get here soon enough.

 

[rogbngp]

I was just curious to test the observation/assertion that fans tend to be hugely polarized about this film, i.e., that they feel it is either the Mona Lisa or a piece of ****. I was curious to see what ratio people give for how much they feel it works versus doesn't. I'm putting it to an empirical test, however unscientifically.

 

[dude stannis]

Every movie has flaws. But I'm not going to let a miniscule percentage ruin something that works on every other level.

 

[rogbngp]

I now put it at about 5% flawed, but that has undergone an evolution. It started out for me at about 15% flawed. But as I studied the film more, the things that I was impressed with steadily grew in proportion to the things that I wish were done better.

For me what the film lacks, and that is done so brilliantly by the MCU in particular, is truly warm and relatable characters--at least as compared with films like

Captain America: The First Avenger
The Avengers
Iron Man
Guardians of the Galaxy
Star Trek
Star Trek: Into Darkness
X-Men: First Class
Hellboy
Star Wars: The Force Awakens

and I could probably go on and on, but you get the point. (Those are particularly shining examples to me in the character warmth and relatability aspect.)

Again, for me in MoS this is the main missing ingredient: warm and relatable characters. It is not to say that that there is no warmth or relatability to them. But in comparison with the other highly entertaining films listed above as examples, it is lacking.

As for all of the good things that I like about MoS: I love that it is a ballsy reinvention of the Superman myth that brings Superman into the real world--with all the ramifications that that entails. I love that it has some impressive mythic themes deliberately woven into it symbolically. I love the Kryptonian backstory (and its allegory) and worldbuilding. I love the pacing of the story and even its tense and somber mood that ends in a climatic final battle that really does justice to the powers that Superman and Zod have. I love that dramatic moral dilemma that Zod has to be killed as choice of lesser evil--and what that signifies for a character like Superman in the real world. I love the ways that all the characters are developed. I love the acting from everyone in the film. I find the story to be very tightly crafted and internally consistent.

So all of these things I think are masterful, actually and for me they far, far outweigh that one element that I wish the film had: more human warmth that powerfully connects me to the characters directly at the heart level.

 

[The Batman]

BvS can't get here soon enough.

 

[rogbngp]

Come on don't be such curmudgeons! This isn't so much about discussion--that's been done to death, I realize (although I feel it would be rude to say don't explain why you chose the ratio you did). I just want to see a distribution emerge. Humor me. t:

 

[dude stannis]

I'm not sure what's so unrelatable about Clark, he's a decent human being who hasn't really found his place in the world. I think a there's a lot of us here much the same way.

 

[Decepticonus]

I'm not sure what's so unrelatable about Clark, he's a decent human being who hasn't really found his place in the world. I think a there's a lot of us here much the same way.

Unless we're living in a much older generation where people are already adults with jobs straight out of high school with a house, family and kids.

 

[rogbngp]

I'm not sure what's so unrelatable about Clark, he's a decent human being who hasn't really found his place in the world. I think a there's a lot of us here much the same way.

I get you, and agree that they are relatable, actually, but maybe just not in the warmest of ways. There are certainly some heartfelt and touching moments in MoS. And Jor-El, Jonathan, and Martha are emotionally warm. But the movie is so strongly tinged emotionally with darker feelings.

It's a matter of degree. I guess. Think of how you come to feel about Steve Rogers in CA:TFA for example. There's a tone of emotional warmth to that film.

I realize that MoS is about more painful and dark mythic themes. And that's okay (hey, I rated this film 95% successful!). But as I said the one thing I wish was there that isn't is moments of emotional warmth and connection.

 

[dude stannis]

I wouldn't say painful, I think the film is more tonally sombre and bittersweet.

 

[Alien Anal]

I think some of the ideas of what Clark is going through could be considered somewhat relatable but the way they go about actually showing this in the film isnt done so well. We never get into the mind of Superman/Clark, it just goes from one big moment to the next.

I want the in-between stuff, I want to hear Clark talk to people and really express his personality, not just be shown major moments in his life and leave to us to assume what he is like as a result of it.

 

[Batmannerism]

I went for 10%.

I think the action is perfect, the performances were solid, the pacing worked for me. The visuals were faultless.

What it needed was a few little tweaks:

- the death of Pa Kent, just needed a little re-arranging so that it happened a little bit differently and it would have been much more satisfying.

- Shannon needed to be about 5% less OTT

- a 10 second montage showing some of the aftermath of the battle of Metropolis, after Zod's death. This would make the transition to the drone scene less jarring.


Otherwise I was ecstatically happy with it.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

I think the movie is plenty flawed, but it also has more greatness than most, imo. Unlike a lot of superhero movies, in MOS, what I like, I love.

 

[Batsfan1]

I'm not sure what's so unrelatable about Clark, he's a decent human being who hasn't really found his place in the world. I think a there's a lot of us here much the same way.

I think the problem for some people with this is that that's a pretty vague characterization for them. The movie is too theme oriented to give something a little more specific.

God bless you! God bless everyone!

 

[rogbngp]

I wouldn't say painful, I think the film is more tonally sombre and bittersweet.

I see Superman as a more of a tragic figure in this film, actually. The film is tinged with loss (other things too, but loss is a main ingredient). I think there is a lot of pain (of alienation, and borne of the monumental responsibility that Fate has placed on his shoulders) that he is having to deal with throughout this film.

I like the descriptors of somber and bittersweet, though!

 

[rogbngp]

I think the movie is plenty flawed, but it also has more greatness than most, imo. Unlike a lot of superhero movies, in MOS, what I like, I love.

Yeah, for me what I love about MoS basically eclipses the things I wish had been done a bit differently (better).

For example, I'm no fan of the color desaturation, i.e., the blue/gray tint. I'm sure it was used symbolically to accentuate the somber mood--and maybe even to underscore that the approximation of our 'real world' that it places Superman in as "gray" rather than consisting of black-and-white moral absolutes.

But at the end of the day, aesthetically, although I respect it artistically I don't care for it as much as a warmer, richer color palette. I just like warm, rich colors better than a cold, bluish gray world. The artistic reasons Snyder had for using a blue/gray color palette can't change that preference in me.

But here again, as with a lack of really human character development, I can overlook and forgive that for all the amazing things that I feel the film does.

 

[Boy Scout]

I feel like this should be combined with the "Rate MOS Once and For All!" thread.

But anyway...I'll be the first to admit that I tend to exaggerate how bad the movie is, but not by much. It's a mediocre film that does more wrong than it does right. Something I realized after watching it a second time is that it's one of those movies that tries to say a lot, but ultimately says nothing.

 

[rogbngp]

In light of the discussion of the MoS's somber emotional tone and darker themes:

RogerEbert.com Man of Steel Review

Interesting to compare with the above discussion.

The flaw in the reviewer's analysis is that just after the movie came out few people grasped the context that it was setting up the DCEU and would lead to a continuation of the story into Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice. The reviewer would have given it 4/4 stars but for his sense that it shows an "adolescent" Superman. But the reason for that is because the character is beginning an arc of development that will continue in the succeeding films.

After BvS I think it will be apparent that MoS can't be analyzed as a standalone any more that The Fellowship of the Ring can.

 

[Boy Scout]

We always knew that FOTR had a story that was meant to be continued in a sequel. MOS, for a very long time, was marketed to us as a standalone Superman film, just like BB, TDK, and TDKR all were.

 

[Flint Marko]

Wait, MoS isn't supposed to be viewed as a standalone movie?

 

[Boy Scout]

That's how it was made, so that's how I view it.

 

[rogbngp]

Yeah, I really did not know that MoS was the first film for the DCEU until well after it was released. But then again I didn't really start earnestly following all of this stuff till about 2 years ago. I saw films but didn't really connect the dots. But that's just a fan's point of view.

Again, to be fair, sometimes sequels don't have much to do with the previous film's story. But here the story and character development, both, are going to flow strongly and directly into the next film. (MoS > BvS)

 

[rogbngp]

Wait, MoS isn't supposed to be viewed as a standalone movie?

I would say we'll see when BvS comes out.