Rate MAN OF STEEL......once and for all

[Whiskey Tango]

Riling up people? If you get high blood pressure when people are making fun of a movie you like, you should talk with a psychiatrist.

The entire concept of trolling derives from someone intentionally posting in a manner specifically intended to anger people. It something virtually everyone is susceptible to and no it does not mean they're crazy. Everyone has buttons.

And MoS is no different from any other film to come down the pipe. It has supporters and it has detractors and a portion of both of those will use exaggeration and outright falsehoods to try and support their points. For every person zealously defending every aspect of MoS there's another guy dreaming up some ridiculous claim that Supes is a criminal for stealing a pair of pants.

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

For every person zealously defending every aspect of MoS there's another guy dreaming up some ridiculous claim that Supes is a criminal for stealing a pair of pants.

That's not the worst criticism I've heard of the movie. The worst criticism I've heard is "Superman has a beard in MoS. Reeve didn't have a beard...I hate this movie!"

Or "Cavill has sweaty manboobs". I hate IMDB.

 

[Shikamaru]

Cap TFA left so many people cold. So much in fact that they had to bring in Black Widow, Nick Fury, Falcon, and Maria Hill for the sequel.

Cap TWS left so many people cold. So much in fact that they had to bring in Iron Man and Black Panther for the sequel.

This whole post is based on the notion that the concept of "context" doesn't exist.

It never ceases to amaze me how black-and-white the analytical thinking is in the DC sections of the forums. "Why can the Cap films add other characters but not MOS", "How can you hate Goyer's involvement but love TDKT", "How can you be upset that Bruce quit in Rises when he did it in Returns", etc. Uhh, I don't know, but maybe it has something to do with the fact that the world isn't as simple as "x = part of y, so why hate x = part of z?" There's many other variables to take into account.

Take for example Falcon, who's arguably almost been to Cap in the Modern Age what Robin has always been to Batman, yet you're going to compare that with Batman/Wonder Woman/Aquaman showing up in a Superman film in order to justify the latter.

Then again, what do I know? I'm just a angry hater here to troll.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

I hate IMDB.

aka The Pit of Despair

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

aka The Pit of Despair

Ign's comment section is a close second. I've found out that nerds can be scary people...imagine if they got their hands on steroids and a pair of dumbbells.

 

[Boy Scout]

Like me, he thought you meant him. I'm sorry if I offended anyone. it was not my intention.

I want to apologize for saying that you were acting like a five-year-old. That was an unnecessary remark.

 

[Nemeres]

I definitely don't think MOS made people fall for the character the way properties like Captain America, Iron Man, etc, managed to. If anything, I suspect it must have solidified on many the perception that Superman is a boring non-character, a brawler with big powers but little underneath, being the glum, brooding jaw-clencher that this film mostly portrays him as.

It's why, as much as I've got an eye on BVS and the upcoming DC slate, I have to acknowledge that Snyder is quite simply not the right fit for Superman. He's not the absolute worst, he's not a hack... but he's not the best either, as simple as that. He's a mistake, one that's gonna stick. MOS gets to the point where the character-driven scenes feel mandatory instead of a priority, as if he thought they were simply an ingredient you have to throw in. But as soon as he's done with them, bam, onto the next action set piece. Example: Even for something as simple as Jonathan Kent's death you have to throw in a tornado, because a heart attack is just not cool enough. I know that's the story they wanted to tell, but that's my point: it's poorly conceived. That's where you see where the director's priorities lie. And it's not in character.

Before this, there had been TWO good, well-received Superman movies, and they're old as time. Then there was a bland nostalgia piece that bored everyone. And then you have this film, which finally gives you a Superman that fights a lot and makes full use of the tools of "epic", modern filmmaking. And it has Hans Zimmer music! The comparisons to previous depictions are pretty limited, and at the risk of sounding presumptuous... I'd say that's where some of the positive fan reception comes from. "It's recent, it's what I have and it's what I'll have to live with for the next decade or so, so I might as well like it". Speaking for myself, it's ****ing crystal clear the way in which this film misses the point of MY Superman. The stuff that sets the character apart, the ideas that he should be able to pull off better than ANYONE... this film completely misses out on. It's just not its priority. Just look at that 3rd act. It's an ok film and it has a handful of great stuff in it, but it's also a colossal missed opportunity. It's not the movie the character needed, for my money.

 

[I Am The Knight]

"It's recent, it's what I have and it's what I'll have to live with for the next decade or so, so I might as well like it".

 

[jmc]

I definitely don't think MOS made people fall for the character the way properties like Captain America, Iron Man, etc, managed to. If anything, I suspect it must have solidified on many the perception that Superman is a boring non-character, a brawler with big powers but little underneath, being the glum, brooding jaw-clencher that this film mostly portrays him as.

It's why, as much as I've got an eye on BVS and the upcoming DC slate, I have to acknowledge that Snyder is quite simply not the right fit for Superman. He's not the absolute worst, he's not a hack... but he's not the best either, as simple as that. He's a mistake, one that's gonna stick. MOS gets to the point where the character-driven scenes feel mandatory instead of a priority, as if he thought they were simply an ingredient you have to throw in. But as soon as he's done with them, bam, onto the next action set piece. Example: Even for something as simple as Jonathan Kent's death you have to throw in a tornado, because a heart attack is just not cool enough. I know that's the story they wanted to tell, but that's my point: it's poorly conceived. That's where you see where the director's priorities lie. And it's not in character.

Before this, there had been TWO good, well-received Superman movies, and they're old as time. Then there was a bland nostalgia piece that bored everyone. And then you have this film, which finally gives you a Superman that fights a lot and makes full use of the tools of "epic", modern filmmaking. And it has Hans Zimmer music! The comparisons to previous depictions are pretty limited, and at the risk of sounding presumptuous... I'd say that's where some of the positive fan reception comes from. "It's recent, it's what I have and it's what I'll have to live with for the next decade or so, so I might as well like it". Speaking for myself, it's ****ing crystal clear the way in which this film misses the point of MY Superman. The stuff that sets the character apart, the ideas that he should be able to pull off better than ANYONE... this film completely misses out on. It's just not its priority. Just look at that 3rd act. It's an ok film and it has a handful of great stuff in it, but it's also a colossal missed opportunity. It's not the movie the character needed, for my money.

It's not just missing the point of Superman, it's misses the point of what a heroes journey is entirely. Whether it's true to what your Superman is is subjective, but at the fundamental level the film doesn't even have the right ingredients for a basic heroes journey. We're suppose to go on this journey with him, but it never really goes anywhere, and never really exposing much, and he never really changes as a result.

 

[Boy Scout]

I think it's ironic that Brandon Routh is playing a character on Arrow that is (in my opinion) more like Superman than the Superman in MOS (in terms of personality, attitude, and general demeanor).

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

Brandon Routh is in Arrow now? I still haven't watched season 2.

 

[Boy Scout]

Yes. He's Ray Palmer. An entertaining, if so far kind of pointless, character.

And season two of Arrow is amazing, so you should watch it right away.

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

I'll do it this afternoooon

 

[Rodrigo90]

Arrow...I can't get into it.

I like The Flash though

 

[Boy Scout]

I think The Flash is just okay. I've yet to be truly impressed with the show.

 

[Rodrigo90]

I even like Constantine, so that may say something?

 

[Boy Scout]

I haven't seen that. Not really interested in it.

 

[Rodrigo90]

I was sceptical at first and I sort of shrugged my shoulders in the first episode a few times, but it was pretty good. It's not everybody's cup of tea, but I really enjoyed and I didn't think I would.

It's worth checking out.

 

[Human Torch]

Cap TFA left so many people cold. So much in fact that they had to bring in Black Widow, Nick Fury, Falcon, and Maria Hill for the sequel.

Cap TWS left so many people cold. So much in fact that they had to bring in Iron Man and Black Panther for the sequel.

Yeah,you've got a point. TFA left people so cold, the leading lady got a one-shot that's getting spun off into a TV series,which includes some of the film's co-stars.

 

[Boy Scout]

He was being sarcastic.

 

[Human Torch]

Then he should've used as opposed to this

 

[Boy Scout]

It was incredibly obvious in context. Perhaps you should have read the entire conversation?

 

[The Batman]

I think that there's more to his movies than that. They're not just lava lamps.

A common theme, for example, is the tragic nature of heroism, which after I had brought up once I learned was listed under Snyder on IMDB. 300, Watchmen, Sucker Punch, Man of Steel all have the hero sacrificing a bit of themselves in order to complete their mission. In 300, Leonidas dies and also Queen Gorgo has some sex she doesn't want to have in order to advance Spartan interests. In Sucker Punch, depending on how you interpret the movie babydoll has to stay behind at the end so that sweet pea can move forward.

That is a deviation from the norm in comic book movies, where triumph is usually portrayed as comprehensive and without blemish.

I know this was from two days ago, but I just have to say about the bolded...what? There are numerous examples that disprove this idea:

1. Spider-Man: The movie ends with Peter doing a backflip, inadvertently causing the death of his best friend's father, which leads to his best friend swearing revenge against him.

2. X2: To ensure the survival of the entire team, a member of the X-Men essentially commits suicide.

3. X-Men 3: To save the day, Wolverine has to murder the woman he loves.

4. Spider Man 3: Peter stops Venom, but loses his best friend in the process. He sheepishly goes back to Mary Jane at the end of the film after both of them have royally messed up their relationship in various ways.

5. Batman Begins: Even though Batman has stopped Ras, The Narrows is, in Gordon's words "Lost". In saving the guests at Wayne Manor, Bruce has embarrassed the family name, and of course, his house has burned down.

6. The Dark Knight: In stopping Harvey Dent, Batman breaks his one rule. To save Gotham's soul, Batman sacrifices his good name to become a villain in the eyes of Gotham's citizens.

7. X-Men First Class: In trying to stop Magneto from killing soldiers, Xavier ends up crippled. To protect his students, he has to mindwipe his love interest.

6. Thor: To stop Loki's plans, Thor destroys the Rainbow Bridge and his link to Jane.


All those were off the top of my head. Granted, most of those weren't as bad as selling yourself like Gorgo did, but to act like most CBM heroes succeed "without blemish" is absurd. Sacrifice is major theme that most 21st Century Heroes have. MOS is not a unique snowflake in that area.

 

[The Batman]

Riling up people? If you get high blood pressure when people are making fun of a movie you like, you should talk with a psychiatrist.

Lol...I bet its not "riling up people" if you made some crack about Cellophane S's, Real Estate Schemes, or Dead Beat dad Superstalkers.

 

[Tempest]

I think there were certain “meta” concerns that greatly influenced MOS’s script. First: that in the minds of general audiences, Supes is considered anachronistic - too lightweight and “goodie-goodie” (especially compared to the “cooler”/successful competition like Batman and the Marvel contingent). Second: that one of SR’s chief issues was its shortage of action and physical conflict (again - especially compared with the competition). So it’s understandable the WB was going to address these things head-on, in what might have been their last attempt to nail down a workable formula for a modern Superman. (Keep in mind that a court of law essentially ordered them to have a movie in production by 2011.) Thus, WB would aim for more a more “grounded” portrayal, less idealistic boy scout; err on the side of too much action rather than not enough; etc.

Now with 20/20 hindsight, it’s easy to diagnose that (for example) MOS’s action quotient was so well covered that it might have been dialed back by 10 or 20% (with plenty left over) - so as to devote more screentime to drama, romance, character moments or what-have-you. But with no crystal ball, I think WB went “all in” in terms of rehabilitating Superman’s perceived liabilities.

No, the liabilities were really there. I didn't want to see MOS at all. I was like, "Oh no, not another Superman film."