Iron Fist How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

[Daneen]

Seriously, though.. they need to fire the camerman.. on ironfist.. like.. did one of them have an ass fetish or something?? so many close up shots of colleen wings butt.. or do i mean rehire him lool..after the show came out some people formed some group called the colleen wing ass club. lmao.. indeed a very interesting cameraman

 

[kguillou]

^Hahaha Holy crap, u know, I thought it was just me that was constantly staring at her butt for some reason but it was the cameraman intentionally focusing on it?

 

[Faith_Cassidy]

You really need to stop with this misty/danny stuff.. like.. we get it you like them in the comics.. ok... you do know they break up right.. they are both single.. so there will be no endgame stuff even if they do put them together which is a real long shot i don't see it happening

Also, they are going to waste absolutely 0 time on love interests in defenders they only have 8 episodes.. colleen and danny will show up as a couple.. they will leave as a couple they are not going to change that with only 8 episodes they have no time for it.

Have you ever thought of the fact.. that they decided to change it and don't want to put dany/misty together.. cause they don't need to stick to romantic relationships in the comics.. they are irrelevant to them.. you need to come to the place where hey look.. they might have swapped colleen in for misty.. in terms of a relationship with danny for whatever reasons tbh it does work better and make more sense since they are so similar especially in the show., also misty randomly showing up on iron fist as a love interest.. is completely wack.she might guest star on the show with luke if there is a season 2 but that would be it.

Also on a side note.. i want as much time spent on romance and relationships in the netflix marvel universe at an absolute minimum or the entire series of the shows will turn into CW angst teen day time soap dramas.. after Danny rand is actually resembling the iron fist we know.. i think hed be better of not in a relationship as he has allot of **** to do and we don't need time wasted on romance plots.

I'm sorry but I'm amused at you trying to shut down talk of Misty and Misty/Danny. For someone who seems so sure of the greatness of Colleen and Colleen/Danny, you seem awfully bothered/threatened by the idea of Misty being in Iron Fist. That's rather telling.

Where in my post did I say Misty and Danny were going to hook up in Defenders?? I've said since the beginning that that probably won't happen. I was simply saying that they will most certainly meet in Defenders, thus there would be nothing "random" about Misty showing up in IF Season 2.

Are you aware that every single comic romance has been explored on the Netflix shows? Matt/Karen, Matt/Elektra, Jessica/Luke, Luke/Claire...all canon relationships. The idea that said relationships are "irrelevant" is nonsense.

Also, i am not exaggerating her appeal.. she was the best character on the show.. if there is a season 2.. more time is gonna be spent on her.. even to the point as much as Danny.. the fans love her she is a badass. go on twitter.. all anyone is talking about in regards to iron fist is colleeen wing.. and danny rand the character is coping flack left right and center.. its mostly the studio's fault.. him even being paired with colleen wing atm is good for his character because colleen is so popular. If there is one thing that saves the show for a seaon 2 its colleen wing without her. the show would have been horrendous tbh.. there relationship and chemistry is one of the things that makes it watchable mainly because of her and ALLOT of people have the same opinion. so definitely not exaggerating

So basically, you think certain factions of twitter are going to dictate what happens in season 2?? If that were the case, then Lewis Tan would be replacing Finn Jones and we know that ain't happening. I think it's safe to say that the majority of the viewers are not watching for Lewis Tan or Colleen, quite frankly. The show is about Danny Rand/Iron Fist and I highly doubt that changes. Colleen, unfortunately, received the weakest writing of all the women characters on the Netflix shows imo. She started out fine but as the show progressed, the writing for her got worse. Nearly everything she did was about Danny or enabling him and that did her no favors. Doesn't help either that one of the writers came out and said they decided to have Colleen and Danny sleep together because they noticed that there was no sex on the show. If it wasn't already clear that this isn't some grand love story, that surely confirms it.

 

[Dasher10]

So when it comes to improving the fight scenes, I feel like each character needs to fight differently. Zhou Cheng had drunken boxing all to himself. Here's how I'd handle it in season 2.

Danny - Bajiquan and dragon kung fu. Danny needs to be focused mostly on striking and bajiquan is good for fighting multiple enemies at once. It's a practical yet visually interesting fighting style that's full of solid-hard motions that would look good for slow motion scenes. Dragon is more of a reference to both Danny being raised as a Shaolin Monk since dragon is one of the most important styles of Shaolin boxing and Danny did fight a dragon to become the Iron Fist. More importantly, dragon style kung fu is visually interesting and involves a lot of dodges rather than blocks.


Davos - Sanshou and snake kung fu. Sanshou is a martial art developed by the Chinese military which uses a combination of strikes and grapples. As a military martial art, it fits his personality and character arc and really fits his rage. A lot of Davos' fighting in Season 1 looked like sanshou but it was too slow. He needs to move faster with a much more brutal style of fighting. Snake kung fu is a quick hitting martial art designed to attack sensitive areas and Davos should be willing to fight dirty... plus he's the Steel Serpent.

Bride of Nine Spiders - Northern Mantis and Southern Mantis. In Season 1 she just lightly tapped Danny with needles. She's supposed to be an Immortal Weapon. Instead of one of the world's greatest fighters, she just pricks you. She's basically a nurse who needs to be turned into an awesome adversary and that's mostly because Jade Kim can't fight and needs more training. Mantis style gives her a greater connection to bugs even though spiders are arachnids and mantises are insects. Northern mantis is also the most stereotypical kung fu villain fighting style while southern mantis is incredibly fast and both are visually interesting.


Zhou Cheng - drunken boxing (normally), penkak silat (when Chi'Lin takes over). The drunken boxing scene worked well. What Season 2 needs is more Lewis Tan. And when Chi'Lin actually appears (I think we would only see him for a few seconds) that's when things get real and he breaks out penkak silat which is a martial art known for harnessing the power of black magic. It's Indonesian rather than Chinese but for somebody who's been alive for centuries, there is no reason why he couldn't have learned it. It's known for savage and animalistic movements that look great on screen (and were heavily featured in both Raid films).

Colleen - Shotokan karate with akido, judo and kenjutsu. Considering that Colleen's mother is Japanese and she teaches karate, it makes sense to go with a Japanese style of martial arts. Shotokan is based around hitting hard and fast and finishing opponents off with a minimum number of hits. Akido is a martial art that's purely defensive (and visually interesting) and focuses around parrying attacks and using an enemy's weight against them. Judo is defensive wrestling. These are all Japanese and all practical for self defense. Kenjustsu is Japanese sword fighting. That's for when **** just gets real.


Orson - Bartisu, boxing, black tiger fist and Macedonian shooting. Bartitsu is a British martial art based around stick fighting which should be used for one scene and one scene only just to ram home that Orson is British. Boxing is also British and should emphasize where he comes from as well as the fact that Orson is less of a monk and more of a brawler. Black tiger fist is often a fast and hard-hitting style of martial arts that focuses on raw aggression with lots of palm strikes and roundhouse kicks which would fit somebody who's a grizzled war vet. Macedonian shooting is only practical for Orson since it's a. comic accurate b. an homage to John Woo movies and c. practical since he channels his chi for exploding bullets. Plus firing two handguns at once just looks cool.

Madame Gao = Fujian white crane. She's Crane Mother. She should get a mask so we don't need to see an old woman have to exert herself too much and a stunt double who won't hurt herself can fill in. It's a graceful and elegant style of fighting which suits Gao well.

Misty Knight - Krav maga. Krav maga is a martial art built around disarming enemies and finishing them quickly and in some cases lethally. It's perfectly practical for a police officer.

And moreover, give each major character an animal motif.

Danny Rand= dragon (initially hawk until Danny accepts responsibility over freedom)
Davos = snake (eventually phoenix in Defenders Season 2)
Colleen Wing = skylark
Zhou Cheng = demon
Bride of Nine Spiders = spider
Orson Randall = tiger
Misty Knight = chaemeleon
Madame Gao = crane

 

[JeetKuneDo]

The other main criticism for me is Danny being way too emotional. I'm glad the writers explored that side of him, as he should be traumatized by everything he's experience. But I think they overdid it a bit. By the end of the season, I was exhausted with Danny losing it. I guess I could tolerate it more if his psychological state is something they really explored in S2, as in, he seeks help (as Claire suggested) and learns to reconcile/control his emotions. In any case, I want to see a calmer, more in control Danny in future seasons.

Exact same thought here. He came off as whiny and weak to me after a while.

Was especially irritating since they started him off as centered and in control of his emotions in the first episode. I think he even mentioned his trained allowed him to be in control at all times.

A guy who trained non stop from an early age and was actually chosen to be the Iron Fist should not still be learning to control his mental state imo.

Not that anyone would believe he had been training non stop since an early age from the physique of the actor.

 

[Havok83]

I'd rather they make season 2 into Heroes for Hire in all but name. IF can serve as central character but I'd bring in Luke Cage and Misty Knight to round out his supporting cast with Colleen

 

[Wylie Times]

Just fire the showrunner and bring in someone that knows what they're doing.

 

[Random490]

I feel like most of the problems could be solved if the writers had more time to revise the scripts. The plot threads were good, but it could have been streamlined and the dialog was very awful at times, specially Danny's. I don't think Finn is a bad actor, but he's certainly not good enough to make bad line work. A few more weeks to tighten the scripts up would have done wonders.

Another major thing is they need their own style. DD, JJ, ang LC all had their unique style, touches, and inspirations. DD in particular really helped make the fight scenes unique and awesome. Iron Fist was just generic and uninteresting. While I don't think the fight choreography itself was bad, but the way it was shot and edited was bad. For season two they really need to look at great kung fu movies, both old and modern, for inspiration. It needs that style that makes it seem more unique than any other action show. And directors who can do that.

 

[Dark Raven]

After having watched the series and having been fed a steady diet of board meetings, I say for season 2

1) Get rid of all the Kung Fu and don't make this a martial arts series.
2) Turn this into another series like Suits.
3) Have more board meetings and corporate wranglings.
4) Get rid of any reference to chi and the iron fist
5) Make Danny suddenly develop more of a business sense and an interest in running the company.
6) Have him see a drawing of the traditional Iron Fist costume and spit on it, announcing that he only wears business suits now.
7) Turn Colleen into a member of the Whitehouse cabinet. She can work at the West Wing.
8) Hire Scott Buck for all the Netflix series.

 

[Wylie Times]

I feel like most of the problems could be solved if the writers had more time to revise the scripts. The plot threads were good, but it could have been streamlined and the dialog was very awful at times, specially Danny's. I don't think Finn is a bad actor, but he's certainly not good enough to make bad line work. A few more weeks to tighten the scripts up would have done wonders.

Another major thing is they need their own style. DD, JJ, ang LC all had their unique style, touches, and inspirations. DD in particular really helped make the fight scenes unique and awesome. Iron Fist was just generic and uninteresting. While I don't think the fight choreography itself was bad, but the way it was shot and edited was bad. For season two they really need to look at great kung fu movies, both old and modern, for inspiration. It needs that style that makes it seem more unique than any other action show. And directors who can do that.

See this is thing, this show had more time than all the other shows. Marvel announced the development of all of these shows at the same time. They literally had years to get this right. Scott Buck was announced as the Showrunner back in 2015!!

 

[Random490]

See this is thing, this show had more time than all the other shows. Marvel announced the development of all of these shows at the same time. They literally had years to get this right. Scott Buck was announced as the Showrunner back in 2015!!

Doesn't mean that the production started. Their using the same production teams as the other shows. That's why it's only been two shows in production at once, the have a limited number of staff. One show can't start filming/set make until the previous show is wrapped. For example if production on Daredevil season 2 went long it would cut into the production time for Iron Fist. And simply because he was announced as showrunner in 2015, doesn't mean he began work that day, just means he was hired and ready to work when pre-production began. Plus a showrunner's primary responsibility isn't making sure the show comes out on time and under budget. Check out the Showrunner documentary(on netflix), really gives insight to how much work really goes into making a show at least from what a showrunner actually does.

I remember there was a rumor that Iron Fist was in trouble because the creative team really wanted scenes shot in china, specifically Hong Kong. I could picture a scenario where the writing staff assumed they could do that or at the very least, have sets built to have more scenes involving Kun Lun. Marvel saying that it's not in the budget and to focus only in New York. Which could force them to scrap entire episodes and story lines to write out most Kun Lun scenes. This could lead to a delay in scripts which in in turn delays in filming. This is just a hypothetical example (which the more I think about it the more it makes sense, specially with how long it took for anything to happen in the first few episodes) but shows how a number of things can cause delays production. Budget approval comes in too late, weather forcing them to reworking the schedule, permit troubles, and so on and so on. That's why most shows network shows don't announce release dates to far in advance or weeks between new episodes, no matter how much they plan a head they inevitably fall behind schedule.

Look at Ant-man, that film had been in development since before Iron Man 1 a several months before forcing them not only hire a new director but rewrite the entire script. Luckily Marvel Studios is such a well oiled machine they pulled it off without delaying the film. Marvel Television obviously doesn't not have that good of a track record. These things happen all the time.

 

[metaphysician]

Being fair, most of that production time was "Allowing Wright to faff around not actually writing the script". I suspect its realistic production time was much more reasonable. Still is a problem when the director leaves like a month before filming, though.

 

[TheVileOne]

I could never find it again, but I vaguely remember a quote from Kevin Feige talking about how long Edgar Wright was taking with Ant-Man. It was like the closest thing to Feige acknowledging some of the problems with the production.

 

[Dark Raven]

I could never find it again, but I vaguely remember a quote from Kevin Feige talking about how long Edgar Wright was taking with Ant-Man. It was like the closest thing to Feige acknowledging some of the problems with the production.

Well everyone knows that Edgar Wright was working on Ant-Man since the end of The Streets of San Francisco back in the late 1970s when Michael Douglas was still a young man. He just took so long that he had to adjust his vision and make him old Hank Pym.

 

[Dark Raven]

If Marvel and Netflix want to focus so much on the Meachams and that side of things in future, they should consider spinning them off into their own soap opera, like Dallas or Dynasty.

Marvel haven't touched on the soap opera genre yet. This would leave Iron Fist to concentrate more on being a martial arts series.

The Meachams TV series can easily bring characters who have never been mentioned before. What is supposed to have happened to Ward and Joy's mother? She could suddenly show up, even if she's supposed to be dead. She can make a dramatic return like Joan Collins did with Alexis Carrington.

We also never saw the Meachams getting into any romantic entanglements. Their soap could have a bit of that. Some viewers might not even realise they're watching a Marvel production if they're just soap fans and it seems very grounded.

But it's not like soaps can't be far fetched anyway. After all, in the series finale cliffhanger of Dynasty spin-off, the Colbys, Emma Samms' character Fallon Carrington Colby was whisked away in a flying saucer.

 

[2kt09]

Marvel haven't touched on the soap opera genre yet.

 

[Dark Raven]

While there may be elements of it in other series, just like you get soapish elements in the various CW shows, Marvel haven't put out a series that is purely a soap like Dynasty or Dallas.

Just imagine a show called "The Meachams" like this:

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Or like this:

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Or like this:

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[2kt09]

While there may be elements of it in other series, just like you get soapish elements in the various CW shows, Marvel haven't put out a series that is purely a soap like Dynasty or Dallas.

I haven't kept up with daytime dramas, telenovelas or even korean dramas, but...the netflix shows do still have a soap opera feel to them.
Of course, not quite to the degree Agents of Shield or the CW shows do.
They're melodramatic and that certainly works to amp up the grit.

 

[Darepool]

While there may be elements of it in other series, just like you get soapish elements in the various CW shows, Marvel haven't put out a series that is purely a soap like Dynasty or Dallas.

Just imagine a show called "The Meachams" like this:

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Or like this:

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Or like this:

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I'm assuming you left out Falcon Crest because of the wineries angle?

 

[Dark Raven]

I'm assuming you left out Falcon Crest because of the wineries angle?

I forgot about them.

But if they had their own series, it definitely would allow Iron Fist not to get bogged down with all the boardroom meeting stuff and the Meacham family drama.

It could also appeal to a different cross section of the audience, especially if it's not a superhero show. Would Marvel really complain if they had a successful show under their umbrella like Marvel's Falcon Crest, or Marvel's Dallas, or Marvel's Dynasty, even if these didn't have any superhero elements and were exactly as they were?

 

[Darepool]

I forgot about them.

But if they had their own series, it definitely would allow Iron Fist not to get bogged down with all the boardroom meeting stuff and the Meacham family drama.

It could also appeal to a different cross section of the audience, especially if it's not a superhero show. Would Marvel really complain if they had a successful show under their umbrella like Marvel's Falcon Crest, or Marvel's Dallas, or Marvel's Dynasty, even if these didn't have any superhero elements and were exactly as they were?

Yeah, I don't see why they would...Eventually the CBM genre will slow down and they may want to expand their reach as a studio. They could go the Lucasfilm route and start channeling their focus on other modes of entertainment (TV, animation, etc.), or just make anything....I suspect they go the Lucasfilm way, but I'd love to see them branch out one day. Bring back those lush Sirkian melodramas that Dallas, Falcon Crest, Dynasty & Knots Landing were heavily influenced by.

#shoulderpads&hairspray

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[kcgr]

my 2 cents

1) He's going to run that company into the ground unless he starts getting some business knowledge and someone takes him under his/her wing (Stark guest star role would be neat). Going to school to catch-up and fill in his knowledge gaps can open other plot lines. Plus it makes him seem a little more real.
2) streamline the plots. It took 3-4 episodes to get the whole identity thing resolved/realized with the Meachums. It was drawn out waaaay to long.
3) not much of a secret identity ... too late to fix that.
4) The corporate stuff seemed weak. The Hand within Rand was an OK concept, but these days it is hard to hide that much funny business, plus how his shares of the company were kept "active" was not so well explained. I think in reality the ownership would have been long solved.

It just didn't seem as tight as the other series. All is not lost though.

 

[Dasher10]

Finn Jones just said that they're doing a Season 2 and he expects the costume to debut there.

IMO, they need to adapt The Last Iron Fist Story.

Partially since that's the next logical story to adapt. Partially since Iron Fist is at its core about family and Orson Randall becoming a new surrogate father to Danny keeps those themes going.

As for who I want to be Orson, my first choice would be Jason Statham but he's probably too expensive. Travis Fimmel would also be a good choice provided that his schedule permits it since he's incredibly busy as one of the most demanded actors alive today. Liam McIntyre is my third choice and would be just as good IMO. Liam hasn't done anything of note since his time on The Flash wrapped up. He's in one upcoming Australian TV show that just filmed and that's it. My fourth choice would be Christian Howard since he actually has experience on a martial arts show. Now if Marvel really want to go all out, then Chuck Norris is also an option but I'm not sure if Chuck would be willing to play a heroin addict since he likes his characters clean cut and even refuses to use profanity on film.

The other new member of the cast who needs to appear is Lee Wing. He needs to be this archaeologist whose so tied up in his work that he let his daughter run off to join a cult. I feel like George Takei and Sammo Hung are the only options. Donnie Yen would also be a good choice but I worry that he's too expensive since he's one of the biggest film stars in the world and Jackie Chan would be awesome but he's even more expensive than Donnie Yen.

 

[scarlet-witch]

They could start by giving the actor that plays Ward acting lessons.

 

[metaphysician]

He doesn't really need them, given he arguably put forth the best performance on the show, at least from the non-newbies. Just give him a better written and more likeable role.