How would you Fix a character?

[droogiedroogie2]

This thread should not be dead.

 

[cerealkiller182]

Nite-Wing's still around? Gosh, I lost track of that guy.

Creeper was always good. I don't think he needed to be fixed. I will grant that Freedom Fighters, Catman, Kid Devil, and Calculator all needed changed, and DC delivered.

I havnt heard from Nite-wing in a while but I did some research and found out he was last seen in prison.

I have always liked creeper to, but i like him even more now (Im a big steve Niles fan).

 

[hippie_hunter]

I agree. It's become such a predictable, cliched character. It's time to take Hippie Hunter's Keyboard back to its roots as a dark, mysterious avenger of the night. The past couple of crossovers have just been so derivative, and so contrary to what the character is about.

So apparently my keyboard is a comic book character

Anyway's it's back to normal. I held an election on my title as the New Caps Lock King and the people voted to abolish my throne

A post more full of outright lies I've never heard. You do not feel that way.

True, I just wanted to get back at Leaguer

Howard Porter sucks

 

[fifthfiend]

Dream: Bring. Back. Morpheus.

So basically you want to bring back a character who was created in the first place for the purpose of telling a story about that character's demise, for the purpose of undermining the entire dramatic arc of one of the greatest stories ever told, in comics or any other storytelling medium? I mean I have to say, in all honestly and seriousness, that is absolutely the worst idea I have ever seen on this forum.

John Constantine and Swamp Thing: Same thing. I'm not saying they should be fixtures or anything, but I for one appreciated their appearance at Hal Jordan's funeral, and that one time that John almost participated in something that the Phantom Stranger and some other magic people were doing. And you're telling me that the Spectre's going around cancelling magicians' subscriptions to life, and he totally skips John Constantine? And even if he does, that Constantine doesn't try to do something about the Spectre anyway? Let's have a Hellblazer - Infinite Crisis Special, where we see all the things that John did to fight the Spectre. Better late than never, I always say.

That on the other hand would be totally awesome.

I mean hell, basically any excuse to have Constantine ****ing up the big-timers' day is pretty much going to be worth it. You can't tell me Batman doesn't have JC's number in his Bat-Rolodex somewhere.

 

[The Batman]

Nightwing: Make his book a DCU title, seperate him from the batman family completely, and try to make his book one of the best selling DC books.

The Flash: Boot Bart, and somehow, someway, deage him and make him impulse or kid flas or whatever again. Hell, you could keep him twenty. Bring Wally back.

Teen Titans: Bring back Conner and Bart, add Static, and have a roster thats actually interesting. Actually live up to the concepts that were promised when the title first started. No Deathstroke, Brother Blood, Trigon, or the Fatal Five for at least a year.

Justice League: After meltzers run, bring in a high profile writer who'll stay on, and keep ed as regualr artist, but let phil jimenez and rags morales do arcs. Being in J'onn and Zatanna.

Aquaman: BRING BACK THE REAL AQUAMAN!!!!

 

[fifthfiend]

I keep saying, DC just needs one massive wave of EVIL CLONES.

****ty Bart/Flash? EVIL CLONE.

****ty Aquaman? EVIL CLONE.

****ty Supergirl? EVIL ******ED TEENAGE CLONE.

There, easy.

And for ****'s sake no, don't do an eighty-issue cross-universe cluster****, you do this as three issues, issue one: the ****ty clones are revealed as clones, issue two: the heroes reveal themselves to battle their clones, issue three: the heroes beat the **** out of their clones. And then everything back the way it ought to be.

 

[The Question]

Death: Make this lady a little more significant, you know? I mean, lately, Death has no control over people just waltzing right back into the world. When people die, they need to die. I feel like DC is just thumbing their noses at Death.

I honestly think that she wouldn't care. If someone manages to come back to life, she'd probably be happy for them.

Dream: Bring. Back. Morpheus.

No. ****ing. Way. Morpheus' story is over. It's Daniel's turn now.

 

[droogiedroogie2]

So basically you want to bring back a character who was created in the first place for the purpose of telling a story about that character's demise, for the purpose of undermining the entire dramatic arc of one of the greatest stories ever told, in comics or any other storytelling medium? I mean I have to say, in all honestly and seriousness, that is absolutely the worst idea I have ever seen on this forum.

Well, I hate to see it reduced to the worst idea ever on this forum, but after some rethinking, you're right. It would be unwise and cheapening to the character. Still, I wouldn't mind more Morpheus stories, from before the timeline of the Sandman series. Let's face it, Daniel's not that interesting from a storytelling perspective.

That on the other hand would be totally awesome.

I mean hell, basically any excuse to have Constantine ****ing up the big-timers' day is pretty much going to be worth it. You can't tell me Batman doesn't have JC's number in his Bat-Rolodex somewhere.

I even had an idea for how it would work. It would involve Constantine barely escaping the Spectre, and then contacting Heaven somehow and informing them of how badly their dog needed to be leashed. He would show them the death of Nabu, and finally the Presence would act. Maybe later Constantine could refuse to join the rest of the spellcasters at Stonehenge or wherever they were in the DoV Special when the Spectre killed Star Sapphire.

 

[The Question]

Well, I hate to see it reduced to the worst idea ever on this forum, but after some rethinking, you're right. It would be unwise and cheapening to the character. Still, I wouldn't mind more Morpheus stories, from before the timeline of the Sandman series. Let's face it, Daniel's not that interesting from a storytelling perspective.

He can be. I mean, he's basically the newbie of The Endless. They're all countless billions of years old, and technically he's only about five at the most. Big age gap. Alot of history to catch up on.

 

[droogiedroogie2]

Nightwing: Make his book a DCU title, seperate him from the batman family completely, and try to make his book one of the best selling DC books.

I don't think that makes much sense. I think it has to be accepted that the nature of his relationship to Bruce will always keep him close to the family.

The Flash: Boot Bart, and somehow, someway, deage him and make him impulse or kid flas or whatever again. Hell, you could keep him twenty. Bring Wally back.

I hate the deaging quick-fix. Bart has to die. Apparently Deathstroke/Jericho could nail him pretty easily, so that shouldn't be a problem. But if Wally comes back, Bart has to die. He can't go back to being Kid Flash. Would you accept Dick going back to being Robin?

Teen Titans: Bring back Conner and Bart, add Static, and have a roster thats actually interesting. Actually live up to the concepts that were promised when the title first started. No Deathstroke, Brother Blood, Trigon, or the Fatal Five for at least a year.

Again, I don't see Bart as Kid Flash being acceptable. If they could find a way to bring back Kon without cheapening a death that everyone seems to think was cheap to begin with for some reason (can't imagine why you all think that) then I guess it's OK. I still think that deaths should mean something again. Goes hand in hand with my fervent hope that after the post-Infinite revisions, retcons will be almost completely not tolerated by the DC editorial staff unless they can be reconciled with previous history. If you can retcon without just directly knocking something out of continuity (Birthright vs. Man of Steel) with complete disregard for it, then it's fine.

Justice League: After meltzers run, bring in a high profile writer who'll stay on, and keep ed as regualr artist, but let phil jimenez and rags morales do arcs. Being in J'onn and Zatanna.

I agree on J'onn. He is the Justice League, much more than the Big Three. Dropping him is like trading Mark McGwire to the Cardinals.

Aquaman: BRING BACK THE REAL AQUAMAN!!!!

A-****ing-greed.

 

[droogiedroogie2]

I keep saying, DC just needs one massive wave of EVIL CLONES.

****ty Bart/Flash? EVIL CLONE.

****ty Aquaman? EVIL CLONE.

****ty Supergirl? EVIL ******ED TEENAGE CLONE.

There, easy.

And for ****'s sake no, don't do an eighty-issue cross-universe cluster****, you do this as three issues, issue one: the ****ty clones are revealed as clones, issue two: the heroes reveal themselves to battle their clones, issue three: the heroes beat the **** out of their clones. And then everything back the way it ought to be.

Too easy. They have to live with their choices and reverse them in a believable, non-quick-fix way. Quick fixes only reinforce the kind of thinking that allows this stuff to happen.

"Sure, we'll try and replace Aquaman with a teenybopper! It's quite a risk, but hey, we can just retcon/reverse it with no trouble!"

 

[The Question]

I hate the deaging quick-fix. Bart has to die. Apparently Deathstroke/Jericho could nail him pretty easily, so that shouldn't be a problem. But if Wally comes back, Bart has to die. He can't go back to being Kid Flash. Would you accept Dick going back to being Robin?

I would if his becoming Nightwing had been acompanied by a complete 180 of his character and the destruction of everything that made anyone like him as a character in the first place.

 

[droogiedroogie2]

He can be. I mean, he's basically the newbie of The Endless. They're all countless billions of years old, and technically he's only about five at the most. Big age gap. Alot of history to catch up on.

A substantial part of why the Endless are cool is that they're countless billions of years old.

 

[The Question]

A substantial part of why the Endless are cool is that they're countless billions of years old.

True. But you don't think it would be cool to see the newbie of the family trying to live up to everything he's supposed to be?

 

[droogiedroogie2]

I would if his becoming Nightwing had been acompanied by a complete 180 of his character and the destruction of everything that made anyone like him as a character in the first place.

They can undo this. He's just stressed and confused. He'll get back on track. He will...I hope...I think...maybe...please...please, DC, make it so...

 

[droogiedroogie2]

True. But you don't think it would be cool to see the newbie of the family trying to live up to everything he's supposed to be?

Maybe. Only if Gaiman wrote it.

 

[The Question]

They can undo this. He's just stressed and confused. He'll get back on track. He will...I hope...I think...maybe...please...please, DC, make it so...

I don't know. They've bassically destroyed everything that ever was and ever will be Bart Allen. Basically, DC has raped my childhood. And people wonder why Graduation Day is my Phantom Menace.

 

[droogiedroogie2]

I don't know. They've bassically destroyed everything that ever was and ever will be Bart Allen. Basically, DC has raped my childhood. And people wonder why Graduation Day is my Phantom Menace.

I feel your pain. I grew up on those Teen Titans too. But my philosophy of fiction is generally to accept the bad stuff that happens, because I treat fictional works as universes in their own right. I don't blame the writers for Wonder Woman's turnabout, I blame Diana.

Yes, it's hard to see the 90s characters go, or shift dramatically. If I didn't like DC's new Silver Age Realism trend, I'd be more pissed. Since I like where the DCU is going, and still like most of the characters (not Bart and Dick, right now, but even J'onn is interesting, just to see if they'll go the redemption route or the further-into-the-shadows route) I'm accepting most of it as tragic but immutable.

And Infinite Crisis was great fun for me, starting with Graduation Day. It set all this change in motion, for better and worse, and I understand why you'd be so angry about it.

 

[The Question]

Yeah. I guess it's just that I basically got into buying comics on a weekly basis because of Young Justice. I look at the Titans comics today, and the characters are barely recognisable. Cassie's become an emo *****, Tim is now some sort of OCD super genius, Kon's dead, Greta, Anita, and Cissie are nowhere to be seen, and Bart is a depressed alchoholic engaging in promiscuous sex. I mean, what the **** happened? I turn around one day and somebody just sucked the life out of some of my favorite characters.

 

[droogiedroogie2]

They've been building Tim up into the future Bruce Wayne for awhile now. No surprise that he's blossoming into that now.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Titans: Have Nightwing realise that he was a complete dumbass for breaking up his family and work with Arsenal and Troia to bring them back. Cyborg, Tempest, Wally West, Red Star, Beast Boy, Vox, Bumblebee, Starfire, and Raven also.

Justice League: Make this team the team that nobody wants to f**k with. And by that I mean bring in uber-powerful members and the big names. Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Wally West, Ion, Orin, the Martian Manhunter, Black Canary, Green Arrow, Ray Palmer, Zatanna, Hawkman, Red Tornado, Firestorm, Zauriel, and Plastic Man

Teen Titans: Have the book stick with sidekick characters. If you bring in teenaged heroes that are not sidekicks you basically get a rehash of Young Justice and the Young Avengers. Robin, Superboy, Wonder Girl, Kid Flash, Speedy, Aquagirl, Ravenger, Offspring, Misty, and Kid Devil

Outsiders: Keep the undercover black ops group that the team is going through right now, just add in some more former Outsiders such as Black Lightning, Geo-Force, and Dr. Light.

 

[droogiedroogie2]

Titans: Have Nightwing realise that he was a complete dumbass for breaking up his family and work with Arsenal and Troia to bring them back. Cyborg, Tempest, Wally West, Red Star, Beast Boy, Vox, Bumblebee, Starfire, and Raven also.

Justice League: Make this team the team that nobody wants to f**k with. And by that I mean bring in uber-powerful members and the big names. Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Wally West, Ion, Orin, the Martian Manhunter, Black Canary, Green Arrow, Ray Palmer, Zatanna, Hawkman, Red Tornado, Firestorm, and Plastic Man

Teen Titans: Have the book stick with sidekick characters. If you bring in teenaged heroes that are not sidekicks you basically get a rehash of Young Justice and the Young Avengers. Robin, Superboy, Wonder Girl, Kid Flash, Speedy, Aquagirl, Ravenger, Offspring, Misty, and Kid Devil

Outsiders: Keep the undercover black ops group that the team is going through right now, just add in some more former Outsiders such as Black Lightning, Geo-Force, and Dr. Light.

Too much overlap. Two Titans teams (never liked that concept, also didn't like the fifty-billion Leagues idea), Nightwing pulling triple duty (Outsiders, Titans, solo book), Wally also pulling triple duty if you give him back the Flash book.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Too much overlap. Two Titans teams (never liked that concept, also didn't like the fifty-billion Leagues idea), Nightwing pulling triple duty (Outsiders, Titans, solo book), Wally also pulling triple duty if you give him back the Flash book.

1. Think of them as two completely different teams but sharing the same name.

2. Take Nightwing off the Outsiders.

3. Wally can handle it. Batman and Superman are pulling quadruple duty (Batman, Detective Comics, Superman, Action Comics, Superman/Batman, Justice League of America). The Titans need Wally and the Justice League needs the Flash. That's the way I see it.

 

[droogiedroogie2]

1. Think of them as two completely different teams but sharing the same name.

2. Take Nightwing off the Outsiders.

3. Wally can handle it. Batman and Superman are pulling quadruple duty (Batman, Detective Comics, Superman, Action Comics, Superman/Batman, Justice League of America). The Titans need Wally and the Justice League needs the Flash. That's the way I see it.

1. Still doesn't feel quite like JSA vs. JLA. Titans and Teen Titans seem to inextricably linked. I also didn't like the name Young Justice.
2. Nah, I like him where he is.
3. Batman and Superman may be on four books each, but in terms of what they officially do, within the DCU, Batman does his patrols, and works the JLA. Occasionally he works with Superman. Same with Supes. Imagine just tossing those guys into the JSA for whatever reason. When would these guys sleep?

 

[The Leaguer]

I would fix the DC universe by firing Geoff Johns.