How Would You Save The Marvel Brand?

[SPO2 Dalisay]

They made a massive mistake trying to use Kang to prop up an Ant-Man movie when they were also prepping the character to be the next Thanos in the whole saga. They shot themselves in the foot just to make Payton Reed happy because he didn't want to helm "palate cleanser" Ant-Man movies anymore.

Peyton Reed? It came off like Paul Rudd had the Vin Diesel and Dwayne Johnson not getting beat up clause. They could have at least made it a two on one fight since both Ant-Man and the Wasp were the title characters.

 

[TheVileOne]

Scott was fine as Ant-Man. The issue really comes down to the Ant-Man films were good low stakes romps, and they took him out of what people liked about the first 2 movies. That's what killed Quantumania.

He's fine, but I don't really want fine. Also, why do his romps have to stay low stakes? I don't think they do.

I think another problem is Evangeline Lilly has basically no personality as Hope. She was even overshadowed by Michelle Pfeiffer in Quantumania. They don't give Hope anything to do except she likes Scott I think? Even their romance is rather perfunctory. Janet is the character we needed for the MCU. Her whole thing is that she likes being a hero and she's a social butterfly. We don't really get any of Hope's personality at all in the films other than that she resented her father.

 

[MarvelFan]

He's fine, but I don't really want fine. Also, why do his romps have to stay low stakes? I don't think they do.

I think another problem is Evangeline Lilly has basically no personality as Hope. She was even overshadowed by Michelle Pfeiffer in Quantumania. They don't give Hope anything to do except she likes Scott I think? Even their romance is rather perfunctory. Janet is the character we needed for the MCU. Her whole thing is that she likes being a hero and she's a social butterfly. We don't really get any of Hope's personality at all in the films other than that she resented her father.

I don't even remember how Hope and Scott ended being together...lol.
Like there is no build up or chemistry between them. It just...happened so suddenly because I think Marvel doesn't want to have Ant Man and Wasp not being a couple like in they always usually portrayed in the comics.

At least with Banner and Natasha's case, there was a small glimpse from the first movie leading up into the beginning of second movie where they eventually develop a romantic feeling (though I think it was more of one side from Natasha's)

 

[TheVileOne]

I don't even remember how Hope and Scott ended being together...lol.
Like there is no build up or chemistry between them. It just...happened so suddenly because I think Marvel doesn't want to have Ant Man and Wasp not being a couple like in they always usually portrayed in the comics.

At least with Banner and Natasha's case, there was a small glimpse from the first movie leading up into the beginning of second movie where they eventually develop a romantic feeling (though I think it was more of one side from Natasha's)

All I remember is at the end of the first movie Hank catches them making out. I didn't get the sense Hope liked him at all before then. Then in the second movie, Hope is "angry" at them because he went to help Cap in Germany. So now she's rejected him and they are on the rocks because he thought he was doing something noble and doing the right thing again. You know the whole reason Hank recruited him in the first place.

I don't get Hope emotionally punishing Scott because he went to help Captain America.

 

[Spider-Fan]

He's fine, but I don't really want fine. Also, why do his romps have to stay low stakes? I don't think they do.

I think another problem is Evangeline Lilly has basically no personality as Hope. She was even overshadowed by Michelle Pfeiffer in Quantumania. They don't give Hope anything to do except she likes Scott I think? Even their romance is rather perfunctory. Janet is the character we needed for the MCU. Her whole thing is that she likes being a hero and she's a social butterfly. We don't really get any of Hope's personality at all in the films other than that she resented her father.

Hope very much was underused in Quantumania. But again, I think they used her fine in the first 2 movies. She complimented Scott. Sure, they didn't NEED to be low stakes romps, but it worked better for the franchise and gave it its own niche that wasn't filled by other franchises. The MCU needs more lower stakes franchises. Scott also filled an everyman niche that other heroes didn't offer. Frankly I don't think they needed Hank and Janet to be Ant-Man and Wasp. They just needed to keep the winning formula they had going

 

[Maestro216]

Marvel's approach to Ant-Man has always been sub-par for refusing to make Hank Pym the main Ant-Man and Janet Van Dyne the main Wasp. No one cares about Hope. Hope had nothing to do in Quantumania. She was barely even a character in that film.

Hank Pym's biggest storyline in the comics is creating Ultron and they gave that to Tony Stark.

That and well abusing his wife

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

Expand into other genres and ditch the sitcom humor. Grow some balls and make Dog Day Afternoon staring Frank Castle. Make a ****ing legitimate horror movie with Man Thing. Make a Buddy cop movie with Luke Cage and Iron Fist.

 

[TheVileOne]

That and well abusing his wife

He's in good company with Peter Parker.

 

[TheVileOne]

Expand into other genres and ditch the sitcom humor. Grow some balls and make Dog Day Afternoon staring Frank Castle. Make a ****ing legitimate horror movie with Man Thing. Make a Buddy cop movie with Luke Cage and Iron Fist.

Well they did the Werewolf by Night special which was a horror movie style and very light on humor.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

Well they did the Werewolf by Night special which was a horror movie style and very light on humor.

Not far enough for me personally. Felt it still played for laughs.

 

[psylockolussus]

This is unlikely given their plans, but releasing 1 movie per year would make people miss watching Marvel movies in the cinemas. Imagine if their line up for 2024 to 2030 is like this:

2024: Deadpool
2025: The Fantastic 4
2026: Avengers The Dynasty
2027: Doctor Strange 3
2028: Black Panther 3
2029: Shang-Chi 2
2030: Avengers Secret Wars

And if all of them are good to great, I don't think the public would interest throughout those years. The waiting for sequels would suck though, so they should at least release 2 movies per year. But 3 movies every year, starting from 2025 won't help the brand in the long run.

 

[Mr. Peanut]

They've got to streamline the narrative again. The audience just isn't there for a million different characters in a million different projects (many of which are aimed at people outside of the normal MCU demographic). Give us a small selection of main characters who regularly cross over with one another in a series of strongly connected movies (and no more shows as part of the meta narrative, shows can still exist as unconnected side projects like the Netflix stuff, but no more tying them into the main overarching story).

It's hard to say if they can fully recover though, because the fact remains that anyone who starts watching the MCU still has to get through the Multiverse Saga in order to get to whatever's next (and that's a lot of screentime to get through). They've lost the advantage they had in Phase 1-3 where the MCU was bingeable and thus easy to keep up with everything. There sure as hell is no binging the Multiverse Saga.

 

[psylockolussus]

I plan to binge watch phase4 to 6 movies one day, but those shows... nope.

 

[Wildcard]

What Marvel needs is simple: which is to stop trying to make everything driven solely by humor. Having each film feel different and feel important in its own right rather than just being a stepping stone en route to a bigger event movie.

Marvel movies, generally speaking, need what No Way Home had, which was heart and soul. Though admittedly that tugged on nostaglia for many people but still, I feel the execution was extremely well done & there weren't an abundance of awkward moments with jokes that don't land. The humor is something I've noticed as a big turn off for people across the board, whether avid comic fans or general moviegoers.

And they should also stop neutering top level characters like Hulk, someone that could make for extremely cerebral and almost horror-esque stories that would appeal to new/different audiences. It's okay for the movies to feel different in style & tone.

Those are just some of the things I think they could start with.

 

[Tg11]

My approach would be simple:

1 - Avengers movie ASAP in the slate

2 - End Multiverse Saga imminently. Not outright dump it, but end it. Get Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars out FAST

3 - Build next Saga around the Mutants, but still have the Avengers

4 - To end Phase 1 of Mutant Saga, Avengers vs X-Men....not my favorite story, but the concept will get hype

5 - D+ content will focus mainly on street level heroes and will not have ginormous 200-300 mil budgets

6 - More selective about movie franchises. I love ya Rhodey and Eternals and such, but we gotta focus on 3 films per year and focus more on characters we know people love already. Introduce the oddball new hero like Shang-Chi here and there, but streamline it.

7 - Make sure characters dont go like 4 years between appearances for our major players

8 - Avengers movie every Phase. The idea that they're saga enders is dumb. It's best way to get major players visibility

I may add more later, but these are first changes I would make.

I agree with all

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

X-MEN

 

[Cap2024]

Use the multiverse to bring back at least Iron Man. Even if a different actor plays him. There can even be a story centering on others adjusting to this “imposter” Iron Man.

Land Fantastic Four and X-Men.

If Cap comes back, as someone mentioned - he can have the Nomad arc.

Do a JJ Abrams style Trek reboot after the multiverse saga. It doesn’t need to be complete, but just enough that audiences can feel like they can easily enter the films without needing to view everything that came before. I know Kelvin was controversial to some, but there was enough old and new that everyone could join in.

Put more B or C list superheroes on Disney Plus as shows. Not D list. Make a lot less shows as to actually put time into developing them.

Put guaranteed money earners (A list) in cinemas. Reduce output as to also focus on quality control more and to significantly cut down on time between sequels, ex: when is Shang Chi 2 going to finally come out?

No more “only Avengers at the end.” Every phase has Avengers. AND rather than really slowly putting teams together, bring people together soon by narrowing the focus of both film and shows so that it actually feels like it’s leading somewhere, hello Midnight Suns and Young Avengers (who by the time this comes out will be in their thirties). In other words make the content that is there matter.

Only cross pollinate movies and TV shows when it’s absolutely necessary as to avoid another ‘The Marvels,” where audiences have to see two TV shows and a film to even begin to catch up for it. We had Netflix Marvel shows that were thought to be canon (and still are?) going at the same time as the MCU before, what’s the difference? They didn’t cross pollinate. Imagine another string of TV shows leading to, for instance, The Defenders while the movies are building up to their own thing - it wouldn’t feel as all over the place, it didn’t before.

Seriously what’s the hold up with Hulk rights? Put everything into getting those back! Don’t make Falcon’s first movie about Cap basically a Hulk movie especially seemingly without Hulk. Make it actually a Cap movie.

If a film isn’t and can’t work - going to say something controversial, take the tax cut! In the long run, it’s leagues better cancelling this version of the Cap film if it can’t be fixed than putting out a sub-par Cap film that starts him off as a disappointment. Right now focus needs to be on protecting the brand.

Marvel has oddly expanded world building in so many directions that it is taking them forever to bring at least one to timely fruition. Streamline it. Less is more.

 

[Venom 1988]

Put more B or C list superheroes on Disney Plus as shows....Put guaranteed money earners (A list) in cinemas.

You realize most of the succeful MCU movies were composed of B/C list characters right? Iron Man, Thor, Cap, Black Panther, Guardians, etc...

If a film isn’t and can’t work - going to say something controversial, take the tax cut! In the long run, it’s leagues better cancelling this version of the Cap film if it can’t be fixed than putting out a sub-par Cap film that starts him off as a disappointment. Right now focus needs to be on protecting the brand.

Sorry but no this is a horrible idea. No studio studio should be doing this, it's just more Hollwood Accounting crap. Any reports you read recently about WB shelving a movie because they feared it was so horrible it would damage their brand is a lie. At the end of the day it was about money, not whether the movie was good or bad.

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

It does sound like to save Marvel you must save the MCU. And because of The Avengers the B list stars are now the global A list.

 

[Cap2024]

You realize most of the succeful MCU movies were composed of B/C list characters right? Iron Man, Thor, Cap, Black Panther, Guardians, etc...


Sorry but no this is a horrible idea. No studio studio should be doing this, it's just more Hollwood Accounting crap. Any reports you read recently about WB shelving a movie because they feared it was so horrible it would damage their brand is a lie. At the end of the day it was about money, not whether the movie was good or bad.

Some were and right now Marvel is in a much more precarious situation box office wise. I personally always saw The Avengers as A List, perhaps not on the big screen prior but without a doubt in comic books.

Since certain films came out they became A list (Guardians, Panther). What other Marvel superheroes are there that you would consider B list that can easily become A list?

The films released to theaters should be more or less guaranteed to do well and strike a chord with audiences - at least until the MCU pulls itself back up - ex: Fantastic Four and X-Men if done right. Get the masses back. Once that is done, experimenting with certain B list can return.

The IP that has a strong chance, but not as solid of a foundation should go to streaming for now. Do heroes that are more well known. Blade for instance, while many here have said it’s risky for film now - it’d probably perform much better than most recent shows on Disney Plus have been.

Then with experimental shows - give them at least solid supporting casts so they stand more of a chance; imagine how Ms. Marvel would have performed if there was at least one known actor in it audiences knew of and liked (Moon Knight was largely unknown too, but it got boosted due to Oscar and Ethan).

Thunderbolts composed of mostly characters from Disney Plus content (including films that premiered there) - should be on Disney Plus. If The Marvels are anything to go by, it won’t do well on theater screens whereas it stands a much better chance on Disney+. I know I’m not alone in seeing that as theatrically risky.

I’m new so you wouldn’t know this - I’ve been vehemently against every tax move WB made. That said, that’s an overall studio - here it’s a brand that is heavily struggling with optics and each flop to disappointment is only going to knock it down more. So while I agree in hating the idea, if it’s either lower the brand more by releasing a film that seems like it doesn’t work or starting over (despite that being financially taxing in the short term) it’s definitely the second as to not further hurt audience trust in the brand (which is harder to win back).

 

[Tg11]

Also involving other heroes too could prove useful like Ghost Rider, Luke Cage, Jessica Jones, Iron Fist, etc

 

[Venom 1988]

I’m new so you wouldn’t know this - I’ve been vehemently against every tax move WB made. That said, that’s an overall studio - here it’s a brand that is heavily struggling with optics and each flop to disappointment is only going to knock it down more. So while I agree in hating the idea, if it’s either lower the brand more by releasing a film that seems like it doesn’t work or starting over (despite that being financially taxing in the short term) it’s definitely the second as to not further hurt audience trust in the brand (which is harder to win back).

There's a big difference between pausing a production and starting over vs writing off everything as a tax off and shelving everything involved with it forever. Sorry but you're not gonna convince me the latter is ever a good thing.

 

[Cap2024]

There's a big difference between pausing a production and starting over vs writing off everything as a tax off and shelving everything involved with it forever. Sorry but you're not gonna convince me the latter is ever a good thing.

I don’t know enough on that front. If you’re saying tax write off prevents them from starting over, then yeah I agree that it shouldn’t be a tax write off as there should definitely be a Cap film. I simply meant start over rather than just minor changes if need be rather than cutting off the potential of doing so.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

How to save the Marvel brand?

Step 1 - Keep Nelson Peltz and Ike Perlmutter the hell away from it.

 

[Bayne]

Some were and right now Marvel is in a much more precarious situation box office wise. I personally always saw The Avengers as A List, perhaps not on the big screen prior but without a doubt in comic books.

Since certain films came out they became A list (Guardians, Panther). What other Marvel superheroes are there that you would consider B list that can easily become A list?

The films released to theaters should be more or less guaranteed to do well and strike a chord with audiences - at least until the MCU pulls itself back up - ex: Fantastic Four and X-Men if done right. Get the masses back. Once that is done, experimenting with certain B list can return.

This is really the core of why this entire argument is nonsense.

Comic Book 'A list' - even if that did always describe the Avengers, which is debatable - has nothing to do with movie success.

Characters there were B list until they had a hit movie like Black Panther and especially GotG are indisputable proof that B list characters can hit big when handled well.

But most importantly:

There is no such thing as a B list character who can 'clearly' and 'obviously' become A list with the right treatment. There never has been. B list characters only become A list because someone takes a chance on them - and that's never guaranteed or easy. And there is also no such thing as an A list character who is 'guaranteed to do well and strike a chord with audiences'.

Even Batman still bombed once. The closest you will ever get to this ideal based on cinematic history is Spider-man - but while he has so far been seemingly insulated from financial consequences, people still largely hated ASM2 so much the studio was afraid of going ahead with ASM3. And even then, you can't go around chasing Spider-man with every new franchise under the sun because the vast majority of them simply can't be as successful as Spider-man is. There isn't room for that many franchises at the very top. The vast majority of them by definition will be lower down the ladder, where success is clearly never guaranteed even with a popular character.