Discussion in 'Marvel Comics' started by Anubis, Apr 14, 2012.
I would sooo think this was a cool thread if I wasn't look at tranny porn right now.
What If... Fundamentals
There are some fairly fundamental things about the Marvel Universe that we base everything on and the structure of it evolves from there... but what if we change something fundamental regarding the Marvel universe... what if..
What If... Peter didn't live with Aunt May or Uncle Ben? In this reality they were already dead. He goes to live in a group home where he is just as brilliant, but more troubled, and more desperate for affection. He still manages to get bitten by the spider, but does almost nothing with it besides warding off bullies, as he sees no point in anything without family. This is when a strange twist of fate comes in. Doom, in a rare bout of realization of his own mortality, decides he needs an heir. So he looks all over the world for the most brilliant of Orphans and finds one in, of all places, America. Despite what the government does to try and block the dictator, Doom adopts Peter. This tames Doom's plans and the two of them push the boundries of science and sorcery so far, Latveria not only becomes a major power in central Europe, but manages to absorb several poverty stricken former soviet satellites. Peter idolizes Doom and though he understands he is the heir to the throne, can't imagine a day when "Lord Doom" does not rule. Whether this is due to his own lonely childhood or Doom's charisma is not clear. Peter is accompanies his father back to the states as Doom negotiates in the UN form a position of power for new European trading laws. Meanwhile, Peter in his own specially modified armor is flying around the city. He sees another flying person and investigates. He realizes suddenly, using mystic power, that her mind is not her own. But he recognizes her; Jessica Jones, a former classmate. He captures her, but cannot break the control on her mind. He asks his father to do it, and Jessica explains to Doom Sr. and Jr. what the Purple Man had done to her. Doom promises Peter that the Purple Man will be "dealt with". Doom Leaves, but what he does with the Purple Man is not clear, he merely returns to find Peter and Jessica talking very intimately. Before we know it she is the crowned princess of Latveria, and taking the name "Crown Jewel". Peter's world falls apart when Doom is killed in a battle with the Fantastic Four. Jessica is shocked by the rage her husband DOESN'T display. She expects to have to physically restrain him from attack the Four. he doesn't. PEter locks himself in his laboratory and is not seen again until he hauls a chained Loki before Odin, and asks one favor in return for all the research that went into the making of Loki's chains (which could hold any god). thus Thor helps Peter defeat the FF. Peter, delivering what he believes to be "Latverian Justice" tells the captured (and depowered) four, that they must choose one of their own to die (A death for a death). Reed, Sue, and Johnny spend all night trying to figure out how to get out. Morning comes, they stand defiant, and Ben volunteers to die.
YES! I couldn't have put it better myself! I felt the exact same way about how it should have ended.
For mine (Though it won't be as detailed):
Avengers: The Children's Crusade.
Basically, instead of having Stature die (She was my favorite Young Avenger, and one of my favorite female heroes in general), have the heroes realize that they'd have to change the past back to the way it originally was in order to stop Doom and save the world. So, after they do so, Doom loses his power that he took from Scarlet Witch, Cassie's father is dead again (After a touching farewell between the two of them), Scarlet Witch makes herself disappear to return in some other series, and the various hero teams involved in the whole thing (Avengers, Young Avengers, and X- Men) return to their respective lives.
What if... The Fantastic One...
What if the others did not survive that eventful flight? Johnny's powers immolated him. Ben suffocated in his own rocky mass, and Sue formed a force field around her body and suffocated. Only one remained, guilty of their deaths. Manslaughter. Reed goes willingly to Ft. Leavenworth, until Uncle Sam has need of him. They bring him out, and give him a nicer cage, and say "you can earn your freedom if you use that big brain for us." So he does. Thinking this more penance. He gives them devices and strategies to destroy their enemies. In the meantime he stays in isolation, until they begin to forget who the genius is. They ignore his advice. And that's when Reed get's his first unexpected guest in years.
Doom, who believes that Reed is punishing himself even more cruelly than he ever could, bares not animosity, but sympathy. "You see what happens when lesser men rule?" Doom sighs. And so they make a plan. Doom and Richards as equal rulers of Latverian, which is soon all of Europe. However, Doom's ego cannot stand to be equals. he plays himself up more, and Reed does not care. He views Doom as a brother and friend. He sees the two of them as equals and does not care for the public adulation as Victor does. However, Victor still percieves Reed as making Victor seem inferior. And no one may be coequal with Doom.
Victor attempts a coup, which turns violent and in the end it is only Reed and Victor.
"Stop this Victor," Reed chastises. "This is foolish. Let us just go back to how things were."
"With you attempting to usurp my power?" Victor accuses.
"NO!" Reed objects. "Equals trying to improve the world. You are as a brother to me."
"Well then... we shall just call this fratricide," Doom sneers as he prepares to deliver what he beleives is the death blow.
Reed's throat spasm and he says, in Victor's voice, "Armor... Cynthia Blossom twelve". The Armor instantly self-destructs. and Reed, back in his own voice, laments. "Damn you for making me do this Victor."
Ehhh, I don't know.
I like the idea of Reed suffering with the guilt of having killed his friends, but I don't see him being okay with conquering Europe.
Making the world a better place by devoting himself entirely to science in penance works.....I could see it as a sad story of a guy who creates a utopia. An Earth where nobody goes hungry, energy for all, etc, and he never finds happiness for himself.
I could see him having to fight Doom earlier on to achieve this goal, and being forced to kill him though.
I like Anubis' scenario better. Also why would Doom co rule Latveria with anybody ?
Because Doom believes Doom is magnanimous. Doom believes Doom is smart enough to control any pathetic self-loathing idea generator. Any fool can have ideas, it takes the intelligence and charisma of Doom to control a nation. There is no way Doom would ever let Reed's power exceed his own.
That's the thing with Doom, you can explain just about anything by saying "his ego". Yes he is brilliant, but so is the devil, and he gets spanked in every fight with the great I Am.
WOLVERINE: NOT PRETTY
Wolverine is broken as a character. And I'm not talking about his exposure, his lack of mystery or his healing factor - although these are things that have led to what I percieve as the core of the problem - but about the fact that he is a killer. A murderer. A mass murderer even.
There's an interesting article on uncannyxmen.net about Wolverine, with a bit about Jim Shooter's uneasiness with Wolverine's proclivity towards violence. He would kill his enemies. Something that was relatively not done in the superhero world. But Wolverine wasn't your average superhero. What he did wasn't pretty.
But it's not really that he's a killer that's the issue. It's how many people he's killed by now. How easily he has been driven to kill. Even the current arc in his solo title is centred around somebody mind-controlling Wolverine into murdering people.
But heck, even that could be forgiven - I mean, who really knew about what Wolverine was doing? But there was a breaking point. That was New Avengers #1.
Wolverine used to be an outlaw. And while his loner act was just that (he did constantly surround himself with other people), he was an X-Man. Somebody who was hated and feared even though he saved the world on a regular basis. Like the others, he acted outside of the law. He worked in the shadows, hunted as much as he was the hunter.
Then Captain America and Iron Man threw him into the spotlight - and they did it precisely because he was a killer (there's a paradox for ya). He became a public figure, more than he had ever been before. Suddenly, he was one of the nation's heroes, presented alongside the other Avengers. Hello, world, I'm Wolverine. And what I do isn't pretty.
That doesn't work. It can't work.
What I would do is expose Wolverine, not unlike what happened to Daredevil. Joy Mercado and Cole Cooper are the new Woodward and Bernstein as a murder sends them digging into the life of James Howlett aka Weapon X aka Logan. The result is a front page of the Daily Bugle on New York's newest "hero". Wolverinegate is born.
Suddenly, most of the mystery of Wolverine's life (that we already knew about) is out on the street. His service record is detailed, his actions listed. This is a dangerous man. He is a killer. He is a mass murderer. The city of New York is spurred into action. Hell, the country is. For once, Captain America's word isn't good enough.
The result would be Wolverine going back to the only place where he could ever really control himself. Japan. His tenure with the Avengers is over and it is some time before he comes back to the X-Men. When he does, he goes back to doing what he does best. Which is knowing when to keep his claws sheathed.
I'd read that.
Same here. Anything to get him off the Avengers would be good and that's a cool way of doing it.
AVENGERS (VOL. 3) #57-58 (OCT-NOV 2002)
The 25 Greatest Avengers Stories list over at IGN got me thinking about Kurt Busiek's run. I really liked it and told the definitive Ultron and Kang arcs (twice for Kang even). That would be such a hard act to follow - and it obviously was, as only Geoff Johns got anywhere near close to a good story. I'm disregarding the Bendis era for a moment, simply because it's not THE Avengers for me.
Once, in the old How Would You Do It thread, I wrote a really elaborate treatise on Avengers #500 and how I would've handled it. It involved like four different Avengers teams, Asgard, Baron Zemo and I think I had two years planned out for this mega-arc. Now I figure it's best to keep it simple.
What did Busiek leave the Avengers with in Avengers #56? A team made up of Captain America, Iron Man, Vision, Scarlet Witch, Wonder Man, Yellowjacket, Wasp, Warbird and Jack of Hearts. Their liaison had been killed in Kang's attack and Washington was still recovering. You need a small team building arc after that.
To do that, we start with a new liaison. And it's not Gyrich that makes his return but Val Cooper, who used to handle the mutant business but is now on a new career path. She is kidnapped on the first day of work. By Arcade. Yes, the Avengers have to go to Murderworld.
This would be the opening two-issue arc as the team is tested in pairs against robots and death traps. The two (ex-)couples on the team (Hank/Jan and Vizh/Wanda) get their romance on while newbie Jack of Hearts gets his chance to shine. Just before he has to go the Zero Room to release his pent-up energy, he manages to break into Murderworld's control room. But it's not Arcade that's waiting, it's Val Cooper.
The manipulative new liaison contracted Arcade to test the team - in somewhat of a double-cross, she makes sure the villain is apprehended. She announces a few members will have to leave. Captain America gets in her face about it, but she emphasizes that it has nothing to do with the test. There's a membership limit (the classic number seven), Murderworld was just to see how the team was gonna play.
Her observations lead her to ask Wonder Man if he really wants to be an Avenger right now. With a look to Vision and the Scarlet Witch, he shakes his head. He's ready to go out on his own for a while. Before Cooper turns to anyone else, Wasp resigns as well. She doesn't want another "Gyrich". She asks Hank to stay, if only to keep an eye on the team's new liaison.
Yes, the Avengers are off to a great new start.
What If... Xavier didn't discriminate?
Sounds pretty contrary right? But think about it more deeply. In an age when wonders are starting to arise, marvels, if you will, here is a school that will provided you with not only a top notch education, BUT ALSO train you in the use of your super-human abilities, and more mundane talents for the betterment of man-kind. HOWEVER he only took students who possessed the X-Gene. Granted that might not have been the intention to ONLY take mutants, but that was the lasting effect of his design. So much so that on M-Day when many mutants were depowered, they were kicked out, despite the fact that they were all known as mutants and still faced the stigmas they did before along with the emotional scarring of being suddenly bereft of something they had come to understand as a part of themselves.
But What if this wasn't the case? What if Xavier realized that this was not just an age when his own people were rising?
Xavier meets Reed Richards and the two find they have much in common, and Reed proposes they join forces. Certainly the X-Men have more members, but the Fantastic Four also have much in the way of resources and information. Together they change the school. They name it after the first recorded mutants; The Mackenzie School for Exceptional Students. However, this does cause some problems. Tony Stark is the first to see it: Everyone at the school has powers, Unlike him, Pym, and Wasp who's powers are derived from technology. The face of the Avengers changes. Those with super-human powers are persona-non-grata, but they are welcomed warmly at the Mackenzie School. Tony sees this as a serious problem. He recruits sorcerers, assassins, exotic-tech weilders. All become Avengers. The only exception to this generally acknowledged rule is Captain America, who is starting to see an issue.
Cap gets an invitation that he eventually takes to join another group: the Defenders. Dr. Strange, Thor, Namor, and Cyclops (who left after Jean started dating Johnny Storm), make the core of the team. They forsee the great upheaval that is coming.
The Mackenzie School begins to use band-aid fixes as if they were permenant solutions. and one day it all comes back to tumble around their ears. Hulk, who was suppressed by the Xavier's power, She-Hulk, who had been transformed into War by Apocalypse, and Phoenix all burst their bonds, erupting with destructive power. Quickly the Avengers and the Mackenzie school attempt to work together to patch things up. however even with the help of the Defenders they only manage to neutralize two of the three. Jean is dead(?), the Hulk has been pacified and placed in suspended animation on an abandoned planet in the microverse. Only War-She-Hulk remains, her power to feed off of aggression and cause arguments among others weakening the attempts to drain off her powers (Stark Tech).
Finally the last member of the assault team on War-She-Hulk falls. However, he falls beside one of the few super-heroes in New York who never picked a side (Avengers or Mackenzie School): Spider-Man. using his Spider-Sense he is able to get through her defenses, and his powerful intellect is able to push down her aggression amplifying powers. But he no sooner places the device as Magneto instructed on the back of her neck, than he is back handed through several walls. He dies, to save the world. She-hulk is not just stripped of her Horseman powers, but also of all her powers, leaving Jennifer Walters shivering and weak.
The Avengers and Mackenzie school decide they work pretty well together and decide to join forces so that all young people, regardless of if they are born with their powers or some how stumbled upon them can learn to be a hero. This new Facility, in the Heart of Manhattan is named for the last hero to die in the "Triumverate" Event. It took some research, but they eventually found his name. Thus they built: The Parker Preparatory School for Exemplary Students
How would I do thing? If I were editor at Marvel?
I'd have Bendis writing Daredevil and Fury titles.
I'd have two X-men titles, TWO! "X-Men" would focus on the actual fighting aspect, Cyclops and his team, whoever that happens to be. "X-Men Acadamy" would be brought back to focus on whoever is teach the kids and the kids. This book could be a lot broader as I would want it to also serve as an update on old X-Men characters and what there doing now as the constant search for staff is on-going.
Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man: Rolling this back. Peter is married to MJ, Aunt May is dead, and Peter is dealing with the fall out of the world knowing who he is. Lots of supporting cast including Flash, who rapidly becomes Peter's best friend and second best confidant (after MJ). JJJ who is still trying to tear Petey a new One, and maybe a few paroled Spidey Rogues who are legit (For now) that Peter turns to for help on a case.
Spectacular Spider-Man: Kaine (or Ben, whichever). Has moved to boston to set up shop. Just in time as a number of villains have started having the idea to get out of New York, and Bean Town's not that far away.
Avengers: Cap (Bucky, Cap's dead), She-Hulk, Ms. Marvel, Hawkeye (resurrected after M-Day). Tony is on the outs with the Super-community after everything that went down in Civil War. Thor is busy taking care of Asguard and Broxton. Bucky is learning to fill Cap's place and trying not to be an imitation and fill the role his way. Mallory book got She-Hulk fired after all of the time she missed with SHIELD leading up to Civil War. She-Hulk is pissed and in somewhat of a downward spiral. With Bucky's identity crisis and She-Hulk's pity-party, Hawkeye and Ms. Marvel find themselves taking the lead.
Dr. Strange did lose his power and title to Brother Voodoo, but now Dr. Strange is acting as somewhat of a mystic P.I. finding himself deprived of Wong, who service the office, he relies heavily on Night Nurse, and Nike, a Greek goddess of victory, who has escaped both into New York and a bottle. She's still the best muscle he can hire.
Heroes for Hire. Luke and Danny are back, but not interested in taking over. They go to work and find themselves turning a profit. Luke's recent bouts in the big leagues have spread his reputation and not only does everyone want to hire the Unbreakable man, but his associates too. They still handle a lot of pro-bono cases, and that is where they start finding their most disturbing revelations.
Fantastic Four: Divorce? No, not Reed and Sue, although things are rough. Johnny barely speaks to Sue any more and not at all to Reed. Ben is finding a streak of ennui with his money, and the children are feeling the pinch too. Franky is being tempted to use his powers again, and Valeria's intellectual age is starting to clash with her emotional age. pepper with super-villains and super-science gone awry and you have some good stuff. You think we could convince Vaughn to write it?
over all I want to feeling of being unsure what is going to happen next, but I want to avoid a major cross over event. Don't get me wrong, it's okay to visit each other, but it seems every other month they are preparing for the next cross over, and not bothering to tell the character's story.
While not comics this is how I would have approached the Marvel Cinematic Universe:
Captain America (Summer) - The first film that Marvel should have put out IMO is Captain America, the man who pretty much started the modern Marvel Universe. I would have kept it mostly the same as Captain America: The First Avenger, but instead split it into two movies. It would be the same basic origin story with Captain America getting his powers, fighting the Red Skull and Arnim Zola a Nazi super scientist. There would be no rogue H.Y.D.R.A. but instead the Red Skull is a committed Nazi to Hitler's cause, but he still obtains the Tesseract. Captain America still leads the Howling Commandos with Bucky, but instead of Gabe Jones, we have Nick Fury. The movie ends with Bucky's death, Fury losing his eye, the Red Skull getting away with the Tessaract, and Zola captured. Due to the set backs, the Howling Commandos are disbanded and the Allies create the Invaders to lead the charge instead.
Iron Man (Summer) - No changes here
Captain America and the Invaders (Winter) - Part 2 of the World War II Captain America saga. The movie begins with Captain America and the Invaders (Union Jack, Red Guardian, Black Panther, Namor, Human Torch) taking part in the invasion of Normandy. With Zola gone, the Red Skull replaces him with the far more dangerous Baron Zemo. The effectiveness of the Invaders has dramatically turned the tide of the war in favor of the Allies which is forcing the Nazis to resort to far more desperate tactics. The movie ends with Captain America stopping Zemo's bomber from reaching America and being frozen in ice.
The Incredible Hulk (summer) - No changes
Thor (summer) - Much of the Asgard stuff would remain the same but with Thor married to Sif. However, Odin's punishment on Thor would be far harsher by condemning him to be reborn as a human Donald Blake. Blake lives his life on Earth, becomes a doctor, marries Jane Foster, and lives none the wiser to his former life on Asgard. Odin comes to the belief that Thor has "suffered" long enough and ponders on whether or not to lift his punishment. Loki, seeing Thor as a threat to his claims to the throne of Asgard then unleashes his machinations to kill Donald Blake before such a thing occurs but it's too late. Now the core of the movie is instead of Thor having a crappy romance but Thor now torn between his love of Earth (and Jane Foster) and Asgard (and Sif).
Iron Man 2 (summer) - I really love the beginning of Iron Man 2. He's such a cocky prick with fame going to his head. But then everything just falls apart in the end. Instead of Iron Man dying of paladium poisoning, he just becomes an alcoholic. Instead of Ivan Vanko, the villain would be the Ghost (supported by Justin Hammer). And the downward spiral of Iron Man leads to Pepper leaving him, Jim Rhodes becoming War Machine, and Iron Man being an unpopular figure in the United States. Black Widow is also introduced in this movie.
Captain America 2 (summer) - Steve Rogers wakes up in the present day and is forced to acclimate to modern times with the help of Nick Fury, Hawkeye, Sharon Carter, and the Falcon. Upon waking up, Captain America and his new allies must take down the terrorist group the National Force (Dr. Faustus, Crossbones, William Burnside, and the mercenaries Batroc, Taskmaster, and Diamondback).
Ant-Man (spring) - The adventures of Hank Pym and the Wasp.
Thor 2 (summer) - Now that the Asgardians have been proven to be real, this film would focus on the relationship that Earth has with Asgard. Thor returns to Earth to deal with the aggression of Hela with the assistance of Hercules.
Incredible Hulk 2 (summer) - Continues the story from the Incredible Hulk against the Leader. Just like how the other movies introduced new heroes in the Marvel Universe, She-Hulk would be introduced.
Avengers (summer) - Part 3 to the Iron Man, Thor, and Captain America trilogies with the theme of redemption for Iron Man, Captain America finding a place in this new era, the Hulk being accepted as a hero with Bruce Banner no longer having to run, and Thor solving his split allegiance between Earth and Asgard. Along with Hawkeye, Hank Pym (now Giant-Man), and Wasp, another core concept would be why these heroes were chosen as opposed to the many other heroes in the Marvel Universe.
principal: Zombies have always existed, and every government has had a specially trained and usually clandestined military branch dedicated to exterminating them.
In America we have the 5th continental light dragoons, also called blackwing's brigade. While they occasionally recruite special forces members from military branches or excetional agents from different government bodies, mostly the recruit survivors of Zombie outbreaks, Survivors that found it in themselves to fight back.
The out breaks have been controlled as best as possible, never in the heart of a major metropolitan center, which would spell disaster both for the "Silence of the Grave" (the unspoken agreement of the world to hide the existence of Zombies) but also for the world. It has never happened... until now.
Actually Zoke, I'd point you here.