Hype! Writers' Thread.

[Eggyman]

Hello, friends. I thought it’d be a good idea to have a thread dedicated to the writing of short stories, novellas, and novels. eXperiment made a great thread in regards to screenwriting (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=299893), and I thought I’d make one on the topic of regular stories, be it short or long.

It’s a funny thing to get into, writing. There are lots of pitfalls for the novice writer to contend with, and with the internet being a massive resource for information (albeit sometimes too much information is no information at all), it’ll be a good thing for a central thread on these fine boards where writers can come for useful links and tips and tricks. In this thread I’ll name some books that have helped me as a writer progress at my craft, and I’ll post some links to some helpful websites. Hell, I’ll even quote some helpful blurbs from the pages of said books if you like.

[FONT=&quot]Ok, if you’re reading this, I’m guessing you’re interested . . . and either know a little or a lot about the craft of writing. So let’s discuss the actual bare bones of writing. You write what you want to write about – not picking a subject because you see it as a better market. You have to be enthused by what you write, if you’re not then you won’t enthuse anyone who reads it. You should find a voice to write in; letting it influence the story and give it life. Show, don’t tell; use dialogue to make parts of you story clear, rather than using narration to slap the reader in the face with the facts. Don’t be discouraged – it’s a hard, solitary job, but if you’re serious this shouldn’t worry you one bit.


There's two books I swear by that helped me in my obsession with writing fiction:

The Elements of Style by William Strunk and E.B. White. This is a fantastic book for any writer - when sometimes you feel lost in the woods, this book can speak plainly to you and show you a way out. It deals with grammar, punctuation - all the basics - but it has a lot of helpful hints throughout. Even if you read the contents pages, the names of the sections are even helpful with little gems of advice such as 'Do not overwrite', or 'Avoid fancy words', and my personal favourite 'Omit needless words'. This is a great book and I would highly recommend it to anyone who wants to get better at writing.

On Writing by Stephen King is the other book. This was basically my bible when I first started putting ink on paper. It's full of humour and never gets dull, and although he doesn't ever go into much detail concerning things like grammar or punctuation, he gives very useful tips on the actual creation of a story and its characters, and then on how to revise and rewrite afterwards. One of my favourite quotes in the book is when King is describing when he was a young writer trying to get published. He says that he received a rejection letter that changed the way he worked. On the rejection letter was a very useful piece of advice: 2nd draft = 1st draft - 10%. They were telling him that his final draft was two long winded, and he said once he started sticking to that formula off making sure his final draft was at least 10% shorter than the original draft, he had much more luck when submitting stories. I also stand by this formula, which seems to go along with advice from The Elements of Style - Omit needles words.

Ok, one last subject I'll touch upon before I call it a day. manuscripts and how they should be formatted. I had a lot of trouble with this when I first started, and God knows how many rejections I had because I'd submitted a story with the wrong formatting. let's just say that you've written a short story, found a magazine that seems to fit the genre and style, and are now wanting to know how to keep the editor of the magazine in a nice mood. Well, he'll be expecting the obvious A4 paper, with your name and address in the top left, and a rough word count in the top right. The title of your story should be halfway down the page, with your name under that (this may seem superfluous, because you're name is in the top left, but the name under your stroy title is the name they'll credit the story to in the magazine). The story itself should be printed on one side of the paper, in double spaced lines, NOT Words. It should be left alligned, and a regular font should be used (Courier, Times New Roman, or Arial). Font size shoud be 12. On each page except the first you should have in the top right corner: page number, surname, and title or keyword from title. These are the basics, follow these and the editor may even read your story. This link leads you to a good example: http://www.shunn.net/format/story.html



Anyway, this is turning into quite a lengthy first post. We're lucky on these boards that we have the deft hand of Lobo, who'll hopefully have some tips to share. And of course anyone else who has something to add - be it a link, the name of a book, a helpful rule to work by - is more than welcome to post whatever they see fit.


Alright, I realise I've covered a few things here, and it's started to wander off a little. So I'm gonna leave it here for now. Once posters arrive with questions or hints, tips, and tricks we'll be able to get a more structured thread on our hands. Any useful links posted will be put in this post.
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EDIT: After seeing the direction this thread has already taken, and the interest show, I would just like to update what I previously mentioned. When I started this, I was just thinking about short stories, novellas, and novels . . . but I think it'd just be better if this thread was, as it says, a Writers' Thread. So any writing, fiction, non-fiction - any type of writing tip or query - will be welcomed here. A place for all your knowledge and questions. A place to gather and teach each other.

 

[eXperiment]

Fantastic idea eggyman! I'm sure many writers will be very very enthusiatic. I sure am. Although I don't write stories that are not in the format of a script, I will read them.

 

[Sentinel X]

First tip: Please, please (major emphasis) do not use thesaurus.com or any other thesaurus website to just have different and 'cool' sounding words in there. It makes you look like you don't know what you're doing....unless you actually know the definition of the word don't use it because sometimes these sites can be misleading (yes, particularily the sites. I personally think actual thesauri (?) are better...im talking texts.)
I used to do that but its really a waste of time.

And I have Elements of Style but I never read it and I can't find it anywhere in my house.

 

[Eggyman]

Nice tip there. Normally I think the word that first comes to mind is the best one to use.

Go and find that book!

 

[Angel_Faerie]

I'm having the damnedest time writing my query letter. Everything I've written for it stinks on ice, in my opinion. I'm about ready to rip my hair out.

 

[Eggyman]

Letters are horrible things to write sometimes, especially if you don't know what direction you should be taking with it. May I ask who this letter is to? And what seems to be the main problem you're having with writing it?

 

[Angel_Faerie]

Letters are horrible things to write sometimes, especially if you don't know what direction you should be taking with it. May I ask who this letter is to? And what seems to be the main problem you're having with writing it?

I'm writing a letter to a literary agent in hopes of her representing me. The main problem is it just doesn't sound good enough. I keep trying to use the tips in the book I'm reading, but I just don't know if I'm doing it right. I'm worried that because my letter's coming out bad, my book must be bad. Another problem is I'm nervous. I want this letter to be perfect. The type of work this woman represents is just the sort of thing I've written.

 

[Eggyman]

They're sometimes difficult to balance, letters like that. It can be tricky getting the right tone. You'll probably worry about whether you're telling them too little/much, and if you're coming across as professional . . . or if you're simply boring them, turning them off your work before they've even read it. It's a tricky one.

I mentioned a book before - Stephen King's On Writing - that has a very useful section in it regarding letters just like this. It gives an example of how such a letter should be structured and what its contents should be.

Give me a lil bit to transcribe it. I'm sure Mr King won't mind me sharing his knowledge on the matter.

 

[Eggyman]

What actually happened is that in On Writing Stephen King is quoting an upcoming writer he had talked to about the business.

Here is the template given:

DATE​

Dear ???????

I am a young writer, twenty-eight years old, in search of an agent. I got your name in a Writer’s Digest article titled ‘Agents of the New Wave,’ and thought we might fit each other. I have published six stories since getting serious about my craft. They are:

(List published stories, including where they were published and what payment – if any – you received).

I would be happy to send any of these stories (or any of the half dozen or so I’m currently flogging around) for you to look at, if you’d like. I’m particularly proud of (insert title), which won the Minnesota Young Writers’ Award. The plaque looks good on our living room wall, the prize money - $500 – looked excellent for the week or so it was actually in our bank account (I have been married for four years; my wife, Marjorie, and I teach school).

The reason I’m seeking representation now is that I’m at work on a novel. It’s a suspense story about a man who gets arrested for a series of murders which occurred in his little town twenty years before. The first eighty pages or so are in pretty good shape, and I’d also be delighted to show you these.

Please be in touch and tell me if you’d like to see some of my material. In the meantime, thank you for taking the time to read my letter.

Sincerely yours, NAME
​

So, pretty straightforward. Obviously the details are all wrong – you don’t strike me as being a twenty-eight year old man with a wife called Marjorie . . . but just see this as a template to demonstrate tone and format.

King quoted this guy as saying: ‘You can’t make them like your story, but you can at least make it easy for them to try to like it.’

I guess that means get off on the right foot with them so they don’t hold it against your work.

 

[Angel_Faerie]

That's really good. Doesn't really fit the agency's guidelines, though. I guess I could work it to fit what they want.

 

[Eggyman]

Yeh, you don't have to stick to it a lot - just take it in and get the feeling of what tone you should have. It's important to not sound too stiff because this is the first example of your writing that they'll see.

Also, it's worth a minute to point out that the formatting on these boards doesn't allow you to indent paragraphs for some reason (didn't let me then, anyway), so be aware that indenting was originally meant for that template.

 

[Eggyman]

Fantastic idea eggyman! I'm sure many writers will be very very enthusiatic. I sure am. Although I don't write stories that are not in the format of a script, I will read them.

Thanks mate. I'm getting the feeling now that this could be like a knowledge hub. Sometimes when you're writing, you hit a wall - be it grammar, punctuation, tense - and it's good to be able to go somewhere and get not only an answer, but also different opinions . . . because there are a lot of varying rules in writing, depending on who you talk to. People have different methods.

I'm looking forward to more subjects being brought to the table. We could all learn something from each other.

 

[hammy]

Dear ???????

I am a young writer, twenty-eight years old, in search of an agent. I got your name in a Writer’s Digest article titled ‘Agents of the New Wave,’ and thought we might fit each other. I have published six stories since getting serious about my craft. They are:

(List published stories, including where they were published and what payment – if any – you received).

I would be happy to send any of these stories (or any of the half dozen or so I’m currently flogging around) for you to look at, if you’d like. I’m particularly proud of (insert title), which won the Minnesota Young Writers’ Award. The plaque looks good on our living room wall, the prize money - $500 – looked excellent for the week or so it was actually in our bank account (I have been married for four years; my wife, Marjorie, and I teach school).

The reason I’m seeking representation now is that I’m at work on a novel. It’s a suspense story about a man who gets arrested for a series of murders which occurred in his little town twenty years before. The first eighty pages or so are in pretty good shape, and I’d also be delighted to show you these.

Please be in touch and tell me if you’d like to see some of my material. In the meantime, thank you for taking the time to read my letter.

Sincerely yours, NAME

Hmmm, I actually don't like this query letter. The writer comes off as far too bumbling to me and I would think that is the last thing an agent is looking for in a client. In fact, the essential first paragraph comes off as a disaster to me and I think a lot of agents wouldn't go any further. Not to suggest that Stephen King doesn't know what he's talking about, lol!!

Angel_Faerie, would you want to post what you have so far so that some of us could make suggestions? Of course you would omit any personal info or anything specific to your manuscript, but if you'd like opinions, I'd be glad to give you mine.

But if you don't want to post what you have, here's my two cents: Grab him/her with the very first sentence. A lot of agents don't get past the first paragraph, so you can't ramble, you have to get your best info out there, right away. Also, I think what is important to remember is that every person is different which means every agent is different. What strikes one as warm and funny might seem unprofessional and boorish to another. Naturally, you want to find someone who you'll be comfortable with, so don't stray too far from your own natural tone, but I don't recommend being overly familiar with the first inquiry. That could rub a lot of people the wrong way. Good luck with it! Let us know what happens.

 

[Angel_Faerie]

Here's what I have so far. No laughing, please.

Dear Mrs. Wiseman

I am a seventeen-year old in search of an agent. I found you through a search on AgentQuery.com. I found that website through the book Your First Novel by Ann Rittenburg and Laura Whitcomb. The reason I’m seeking representation now is that I’m at work on a novel. ONLY YOU is a young adult romantic comedy about sixteen year old Jennifer Markus who, since seventh grade, has been hopelessly in love with a popular boy at school - Aaron Thompson. When things begin to grow serious between Aaron and popular girl Celine Kilkosk, Jennifer does something desperate in attempt to keep them apart. While this may sound similar to other books, it is very unique in the fact that it doesn't misinterpret high school. If you have read a lot of books for young adults about teenagers in high school, everything is exaggerated. According to them, high school is the most dangerous place in the world or the happiest, most perfect place one could dream of. Not so with my novel.

Please be in touch and tell me if you’d like to see more of my novel. In the meantime, thank you for taking the time to read my letter.

Sincerely yours, (MY NAME)

 

[Arcturus]

*Subscribes to thread*

This is a great thread idea, Eggyman.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Great thread!

 

[Eggyman]

Here's what I have so far. No laughing, please.

Dear Mrs. Wiseman

I am a seventeen-year old in search of an agent. I found you through a search on AgentQuery.com. I found that website through the book Your First Novel by Ann Rittenburg and Laura Whitcomb. The reason I’m seeking representation now is that I’m at work on a novel. ONLY YOU is a young adult romantic comedy about sixteen year old Jennifer Markus who, since seventh grade, has been hopelessly in love with a popular boy at school - Aaron Thompson. When things begin to grow serious between Aaron and popular girl Celine Kilkosk, Jennifer does something desperate in attempt to keep them apart. While this may sound similar to other books, it is very unique in the fact that it doesn't misinterpret high school. If you have read a lot of books for young adults about teenagers in high school, everything is exaggerated. According to them, high school is the most dangerous place in the world or the happiest, most perfect place one could dream of. Not so with my novel.

Please be in touch and tell me if you’d like to see more of my novel. In the meantime, thank you for taking the time to read my letter.

Sincerely yours, (MY NAME)

Ok, Angel. Shall we do this in stages? First thing's first: I think the main of the latter should be broken down into two paragraphs. And I also notice a lot of very small sentences - maybe try and reword some sentences to include information from other sentences.

Remember though, everyone has their own style, so it may be best to wait for other opinions.

When things begin to grow serious between . . .

Sometimes one word can work as good as two words - 'progress' would fit nicely there.

. . . it is very unique in the fact that it doesn't misinterpret . . .

Omit needles words. Those two don't need to be there

I'd say to start with, break it down into two paragraphs, cut out anything you feel is unneeded. Then we can see where to go from there, and hopefully have another opinion to shed light.

 

[Angel_Faerie]

Here's draft #2:

Dear Mrs. Wiseman

I am a seventeen-year old in search of an agent. I found you through a search on AgentQuery.com. I found that website through the book Your First Novel by Ann Rittenburg and Laura Whitcomb. The reason I’m seeking representation now is that I’m at work on a novel. ONLY YOU is a young adult romantic comedy about sixteen year old Jennifer Markus who, since seventh grade, has been hopelessly in love with a popular boy at school - Aaron Thompson. When things begin to progress between Aaron and popular girl Celine Kilkosk, Jennifer does something desperate in attempt to keep them apart.

While this may sound similar to other books, it is very unique in that it doesn't misinterpret high school. If you have read a lot of books for young adults about teenagers in high school, everything is exaggerated. According to them, high school is either the most dangerous place in the world or the happiest, most perfect place one could dream of. Not so with my novel.

Please be in touch and tell me if you’d like to see more of my novel. In the meantime, thank you for taking the time to read my letter.

Sincerely yours, (MY NAME)

 

[Arcturus]

I've got a question.

What is a good way to deal with writers block? I've reached a point where I feel I've lost inspiration. I don't want to give up, but I can't quite move forward with this obstacle!

Does anyone have any tips?

 

[Eggyman]

Here's draft #2:

Dear Mrs. Wiseman

I am a seventeen-year old in search of an agent. I found you through a search on AgentQuery.com. I found that website through the book Your First Novel by Ann Rittenburg and Laura Whitcomb. The reason I’m seeking representation now is that I’m at work on a novel. ONLY YOU is a young adult romantic comedy about sixteen year old Jennifer Markus who, since seventh grade, has been hopelessly in love with a popular boy at school - Aaron Thompson. When things begin to progress between Aaron and popular girl Celine Kilkosk, Jennifer does something desperate in attempt to keep them apart.

While this may sound similar to other books, it is very unique in that it doesn't misinterpret high school. If you have read a lot of books for young adults about teenagers in high school, everything is exaggerated. According to them, high school is either the most dangerous place in the world or the happiest, most perfect place one could dream of. Not so with my novel.

Please be in touch and tell me if you’d like to see more of my novel. In the meantime, thank you for taking the time to read my letter.

Sincerely yours, (MY NAME)

OK! That's a good start

What I normally do now is look at each sentence separately, seeing if there is a better way to say what I'm trying to say, still giving the information I want to give. We should try and make the read as smooth as possible for the reader - always hoping that the words flow easily together to help paint the picture in the reader's mind.

ONLY YOU is a young adult romantic comedy about sixteen year old Jennifer Markus who, since seventh grade, has been hopelessly in love with a popular boy at school - Aaron Thompson.

Take this sentence. There's a lot of information in just that one sentence. It could probably be reworded to flow better. The beginning is what catches my eye the most 'ONLY YOU is a young adult romantic comedy . . .'

Aimed at young adults, ONLY YOU is a romantic comedy . . .

That's just an example, but you will find if you look at your letter piece by piece that you will find lots of wordings that you feel you could express better.

Just realised that when you're saying 'young adult' in the sentence I quoted, you could mean either 'Aimed at young adults', or 'a romatic comedy where the characters are young adults'. If it's the latter you could always just delete the 'young adult' because just after you tell us the age of Jennifer and then go on to say the 'popular boy at school'.

So, look at each sentence separately and see if you think there are any parts that are surplus or any parts you could reword to optimise the flow

 

[Eggyman]

I've got a question.

What is a good way to deal with writers block? I've reached a point where I feel I've lost inspiration. I don't want to give up, but I can't quite move forward with this obstacle!

Does anyone have any tips?

This is a good one, and one I'm sure that is different for everybody.

I get writer's block from time to time - normally caused by too much gaming or posting on forums a lot (not mentioning any names ). When this happens I try to get myself enthused again, setting the tone in my mind. I watch films that inspire me (Hitchcock works fine), and I'll read books that make me want to write (Lovecraft and Stephen King work well here). I get myself to that place where I can't not write. First I'll get enthused, and then I can be inspired easily.

 

[Arcturus]

Thankyou for the excellent advice, Eggyman. I really appreciate it! I will be sure to follow these tips.

Also it's good to see other H.P Lovecraft & Stephen King fans around here!

 

[hammy]

Angel_Faerie I think eggyman gave you some great advice and I would echo what he said about omitting unnecessary words, looking for smoother ways of expressing a thought, and generally just reworking and reworking your letter (and manuscript for that matter, lol) until you literally have nothing left to improve. (Then the editors will move in and do more of that.)

Okay, here’s my two cents. My words are in blue.

Here's what I have so far. No laughing, please.

Laugh? I think you did great! Especially since you are young and haven’t done a lot of this type of thing. Good for you. Still, I have some suggestions, lol. Ultimately, you have to do things they way that represents you, your voice and tone, the best, so take them or leave them as you will.

To begin with, I would rearrange some things, omit extraneous words and get straight to the point in the first sentence.


Here's draft #2:

Dear Mrs. Wiseman

I am a seventeen-year old in search of an agent. I found you through a search on AgentQuery.com. I found that website through the book Your First Novel by Ann Rittenburg and Laura Whitcomb. The reason I’m seeking representation now is that I’m at work on a novel. ONLY YOU is a young adult romantic comedy about sixteen year old Jennifer Markus who, since seventh grade, has been hopelessly in love with a popular boy at school - Aaron Thompson. When things begin to progress between Aaron and popular girl Celine Kilkosk, Jennifer does something desperate in attempt to keep them apart.

I would consider starting it like this:

ONLY YOU is a young adult romantic comedy about sixteen year old Jennifer Markus, who has been hopelessly in love with popular Aaron Thompson since seventh grade. When the relationship between Aaron and equally popular Celine Kilkosk grows serious, Jennifer does something desperate in an attempt to keep them apart.

I would try to give up a little more about the story. Tease her, pique her curiosity and she just might want to see more. I’m not suggesting you give away your key plot line, but build up the mystery a little more than simply saying she does something desperate. Hint at something more, the calamity that ensues from her desperate act, or whatever.

While this may sound similar to other books, it is very unique in that it doesn't misinterpret high school. (don’t tell her your book is similar to others, tell her why it’s different.) For instance:

Only You (or, My book,) is very unique in that it doesn't misrepresent high school like some others in this genre.

If you have read a lot of books for young adults about teenagers in high school, everything is exaggerated. (What do you mean, if? She IS known for representing this type of work, isn’t she? If not, solicit someone who is. If she is, than she surely has read thousands (literally) so saying, “if” sounds a bit insulting to her professionalism.) I’d be more likely to say it this way:

I know you have read a lot of books for young adults centered around high school, and as you know, everything is exaggerated. According to them, high school is either the most dangerous place in the world or the happiest, most perfect place one could dream of. Not so with my novel and I have the personal experience to know.

NOW is when I would hit her with the boring details, lol.

I am a seventeen-year old in search of an agent. I found you on AgentQuery.com, which I was introduced to through, “Your First Novel,” by Ann Rittenburg and Laura Whitcomb. The reason I’m seeking representation now is that I’m nearly finished with my manuscript.

Please be in touch if you’d like to see more of my novel. In the meantime, thank you for taking the time to read my sample chapter. (are you including sample chapters with this query? I haven’t checked her guidelines, but be certain that is permitted before you send anything. Generally the query is asking for permission to send samples. That is the difference between a “solicited,” and an “unsolicited,” manuscript.)

I would also suggest you include info on the status of the story, (how much you have written) how many chapters / words you expect it to be and when you expect to have it completed. So for instance you might say, “I’m ¾ of the way through the manuscript which I planned to be 14 chapters in length with an approximate word count of 80,000.”

Then I’d finish by saying you appreciate her time and look forward to hearing from her.

Just keep honing and honing. You'll do fine.

 

[hammy]

I've got a question.

What is a good way to deal with writers block? I've reached a point where I feel I've lost inspiration. I don't want to give up, but I can't quite move forward with this obstacle!

Does anyone have any tips?

Writer's block is tough. Depending on the situation, I might suggest simply allowing yourself a break. If you're not under a deadline or something, just give yourself a vacation from writing for a week or two, even a month. That often leaves you chomping at the bit to get back at it. On the other hand, if you are up against a deadline (or maybe just trying to develop good writing habits) and you need to be writing but just can't seem to get it together, you might try giving yourself mini assignments. I've done this and found it actually did help. Let's say you are stuck on a plot point, don't know where to go and have to get your chapter in soon. Just get that project out of your head and do exercises that allow you to write but have nothing whatsoever to do with the project at hand. Even stuff like they used to give us at school. Write an essay or story on any of these topics:

What I did over the summer
I'm in love with my best friends girl
My grandma's house is haunted!
What patriotism means to me
If my dog could talk, this is what he'd say

Whatever silly idea you can think of and then write a few hundred words on that, instead of the current project. Honestly, I have found giving myself space from my required work but doing a short story or essay will keep the juices flowing and sometimes actually helps unblock me for the more important project at hand. Good luck with it and if you come up with any other ideas, please let us know.

 

[AndThePickles]

I've got a question.

What is a good way to deal with writers block? I've reached a point where I feel I've lost inspiration. I don't want to give up, but I can't quite move forward with this obstacle!

Does anyone have any tips?

When it comes to "writer's block," the best thing to do is force yourself to write. Professional writers can't wait around until they feel inspired, and even a novice shouldn't have to either.

Free-writing is often helpful. Just sit at your computer and type whatever comes to your head. You can start by writing a paragraph, or even brainstorm a list of ideas that interest you.

In terms of improving your writing, I've found that getting together with small groups and sharing is extremely helpful. When I was in college, I took both a Creative Writing workshop and a Nonfiction workshop, just for fun (my major involved technical writing, but I still enjoy writing creatively). Getting feedback from others who aren't afraid to give negative criticism is great.

Also, it is important to remember to draft, draft, draft.