Superman Returns If you could have changed Superman Returns in ONE way, what would it be?

[Angeloz]

I would have kept the Journey to Krypton in. So what if it was a 3 hour movie.

Or better still put it in the deleted scenes on the DVD. Have a three disc edition if you have to.

Angeloz

 

[mego joe]

Despite the fact that I still absolutely love the movie, in hindsight, the kid was a bad idea, and audience's just didnt react to it. Everything else I would have kept the same.

Wow!

 

[Superwoman Prime]

So actually, a completely different movie!

Yep!

 

[mego joe]

Yep!

No arguments here!

 

[byte19]

some instances the characters should have been stronger especially with lois. sorry adding jason wasn't a bad idea just not fully develop and too much wasn't explained and too much was revealed too soon. i mean she had a hell of a secret to keep, her natural strength should have more present in the movie it was in parts of the novel version. but it did leave openings for a potential good sequel or follow up stand alone movie clear up obvious plot holes continuity points. if wb doesn't screw things up, which to be looking that way more and more, since it has taking way to long to get the next movie done.

terra1319(byte's girl)

 

[Alonsovich]

What would I change? WB's greenlight...

 

[VenomsMom]

Its not fair to just pick one of those things.

 

[Fresh Prince]

Make Lex scientists Lex.
No Super son ********.
Superman fighting a giant robot with kyrptonite Luthor created.
Luthor plot in wanting to be a GOd not take over land.
Metropolis looking like Metropolis and not a ripoff NYC.
Lois not having a boy friend.
Kate Bosworth not as Lois.
Superman Returns being a stand alone film not a sequel to Superman 2.

 

[VenomsMom]

I think they said pick one.

 

[El Payaso]

Superman fighting a giant robot with kyrptonite Luthor created.

That alone would have guarranteed a sequel IMO.

Luthor plot in wanting to be a GOd not take over land.

In fact Luthor was able to "create" his own land out of nowhere. Sounds pretty God-like to me.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Wow!

Now will you admit something you liked about the movie MJ?

t:

 

[mego joe]

Now will you admit something you liked about the movie MJ?

t:

I've always praised the production design and look of the film. Visually, it is beautiful and a stunning and unique cinematic achievement. My problems have always been about the story and characterization.

 

[VenomsMom]

Now that I agree with. The one bright spot was the look of the film IMO.

 

[Fresh Prince]

That alone would have guarranteed a sequel IMO.



In fact Luthor was able to "create" his own land out of nowhere. Sounds pretty God-like to me.

I mean want to be an actual GOD and have power that no ordinary human being has.

 

[VenomsMom]

Apparently Lex had a desire to be a real estate agent and sell beachfront property to anyone who survived the birth of Lexland.

 

[King of Hearts]

I've always praised the production design and look of the film. Visually, it is beautiful and a stunning and unique cinematic achievement. My problems have always been about the story and characterization.

Really? For me, I didn't mind. I thought the story telling was pretty good. I thought they did a great job casting the characters. Only problem I had was that there wasn't really enough action in it. Superman and Lex Luthor never really had a big battle scene and that nonsense where Superman was jumped doesn't count in my book. Everything else I thought was good. The plane scene was my favorite of course. Really well done. Did the lack of action bother you?

 

[El Payaso]

I mean want to be an actual GOD and have power that no ordinary human being has.

Creating an entire continent out of nowhere is something an actual GOD would do and it's a power that no ordinary human being has.

 

[mego joe]

Really? For me, I didn't mind. I thought the story telling was pretty good. I thought they did a great job casting the characters. Only problem I had was that there wasn't really enough action in it. Superman and Lex Luthor never really had a big battle scene and that nonsense where Superman was jumped doesn't count in my book. Everything else I thought was good. The plane scene was my favorite of course. Really well done. Did the lack of action bother you?

The lack of action did not bother me. It was really just the story and characterizations. I thought the characterization of Superman was pretty bad and that the story was wrong. I've always said that the basic idea of 'a world that had moved on' was a good idea, but that as it was detailed in SR it was lame and pretty boring.
Lex's plot besides being a rehash of S:TM moves incredibly slowly and the Lois/Superman/Richard storyline really doesn't go anywhere. Nothing really changes except that Superman realizes he's supposed to say 'goodbye.'
The whole subplot of 'Superman's son' is just antithetical to the character and on the whole is a pretty shallow example of this type of situation. And where you would expect some true conflict between Superman and Lois it's all very low key and understated. It's not really interesting.
On the whole it's a bunch of 'character' moments that a pretty out of character and seem like they are about a character with a lot of similarites to Superman, but they don't seem like Superman.

It works better as a film than a Superman film, and it would work better with an original character who was new and not the existing character of Superman, then all the character moments would be more meaningful rather than contradictory to the essence of the character of Superman.

The ending is weak as well. His statement that 'he's always around' seem somewhat hollow and ironic since he was gone for the past 5 years and it's not a happy ending. It's a bitter sweet ending that leaves more issues open than it resolves, issues which really don't have any place in a Superman story.

 

[mjbull23]

Difficult question because; even though I was not pleased with the entire son of superman storyline that was woven into the plot, I think that the film could have still prevailed and been redeemed in the eyes of many viewers if they had given Supes a worthy physical nemesis.

The thing that turned many of the moviegoers off though was the kid. I would really venture that as my best guess. The kid hurt the movie more than lack of a supervillain.

Inspite of it all, I still believe Returns was a very enjoyable movie, and a quality movie.

 

[Spiderine]

If I had to pick one, I would say the son. They tried to make a happy ending but you actually realize Superman can never be a father to his son. Also Richard is there and he has raised him all this time. There are also still issues of honesty from Clark to Lois to deal with. It enters uncharted and unwanted territory.

 

[El Payaso]

If I had to pick one, I would say the son. They tried to make a happy ending but you actually realize Superman can never be a father to his son.

They didn't try to make it look otherwise. And it was some kind of a bittersweet ending. But knowing Superman I'm sure he's happier for being a father than he is sad for not being a normal father. At this point he knows he simply can't have a normal life.

Also Richard is there and he has raised him all this time.

And all point that he will still be the adoptive father to Jason.

There are also still issues of honesty from Clark to Lois to deal with.

Which started at day 1 with Clark hiding the fact he's Superman and Superman hiding the fact he's Clark. That comes from the comics.

It enters uncharted and unwanted territory.

Uncharted yes, and that's why I love it. It didn't just roll over around the same old things. But nevertheless, the not-too-normal-yet-full-of-love fatherhood theme was in this franchise in the first movie with Jor-El (losing his son at a very young age, and the adoptive father Jonathan Kent dying before knowing who his son really was).

 

[Spiderine]

Which started at day 1 with Clark hiding the fact he's Superman and Superman hiding the fact he's Clark. That comes from the comics.



Uncharted yes, and that's why I love it. It didn't just roll over around the same old things. But nevertheless, the not-too-normal-yet-full-of-love fatherhood theme was in this franchise in the first movie with Jor-El (losing his son at a very young age, and the adoptive father Jonathan Kent dying before knowing who his son really was).

Ok, I understand what you are saying El Payaso, but this is the problem I have. If Clark had such a loving relationship with Lois, why was he not honest with her? Did they not have a relationship built on trust? We know the importance of keeping his identity a secret but at this point this was a woman he loved and should have been open with her especially if it became sexual. That was deceptive on his part. Obviously no need to bring up the fact she was pregnant since that was unknown but Jason was still born from out of this deception. Although Clark never knew his biological parents, we know he was concieved out of a loving relationship from his mother and father and not out of a deception. And yet it still ends with Lois not knowing that the father of her child works with her at the Daily Planet. I see the parallels of the fatherhood themes like you said, but him being honest and open with Lois is what's at issue with me. That really is what changes the whole dynamic of the story. It was bad enough that he left without saying a word which he apologized for but we also know that he was not honest with her to begin with. I really think what they were trying to achieve in the story could have still been accomplished if he was just open with her. But now Jason being born as a result of this doesn't really compare to Kal-el.

 

[El Payaso]

Ok, I understand what you are saying El Payaso, but this is the problem I have. If Clark had such a loving relationship with Lois, why was he not honest with her? Did they not have a relationship built on trust? We know the importance of keeping his identity a secret but at this point this was a woman he loved and should have been open with her especially if it became sexual. That was deceptive on his part. Obviously no need to bring up the fact she was pregnant since that was unknown but Jason was still born from out of this deception. Although Clark never knew his biological parents, we know he was concieved out of a loving relationship from his mother and father and not out of a deception. And yet it still ends with Lois not knowing that the father of her child works with her at the Daily Planet. I see the parallels of the fatherhood themes like you said, but him being honest and open with Lois is what's at issue with me. That really is what changes the whole dynamic of the story. It was bad enough that he left without saying a word which he apologized for but we also know that he was not honest with her to begin with. I really think what they were trying to achieve in the story could have still been accomplished if he was just open with her. But now Jason being born as a result of this doesn't really compare to Kal-el.

Well, yes.

As I said, things aren't easy for Supes. He knows now that he can't tell Lois his identity for that path goes nowhere. Not to mention that, as long as he's a superhero, villiains will be around people he loves and he can't risk people to know that Lois knows Superman's identity. Therefore there are some reason as to why he cannot tell her.

That said, yes, being that the situation, it was not quite moral to have sex with her. But that doesn't imply there was not love. But for Superman love cannot be expressed the way the rest of us (should) do.

But that's his dilemma: he loves her but he cannot love her. Under that constant situation things happen. Something like that cannot be under complete control all the time. Both Lois and Superman are always trying to attract the other, one way or another. And it's not like Superman is made out of steel (pun).

Jason was born out of the passion and love of both Supes and Lois. But including all the obstacles that love and passion have. It's everything but an easy thing with an easy solution. That sounds perfect material for a story (conflict whose solution cannot be easily found).

It is such the attraction and love that Superman felt he was going to be simply unable to go to Krypton to see what was remain of it (survivors?). Now, I've said many times that Superman not saying good-bye was a useless narrative device.

Ideally for me, Superman goes to Lois to say good-bye. He tells her he might not be able to ever return. And then, since it's the last time they will see each other, they fall for passion. The next day, Lois begs Superman to stay, that there's something between them. That he cannot be as selfish as to go to an extint planet. "It's my race, my roots. I gotta go to see if there someone like me out there," he claims. And then Lois gets angry and goes away. Superman leaves Earth. Lois grows a rage against the man who seduced her, showed her a world of happiness only to shut the door of it for a chunk of meteor. Out of spite she gets involved with Richard 6 days later and starts writing "Why the world doesn't need Superman."

So... THAT's what I'd change and that's how I'd change it.

 

[Spiderine]

Well, yes.

As I said, things aren't easy for Supes. He knows now that he can't tell Lois his identity for that path goes nowhere. Not to mention that, as long as he's a superhero, villiains will be around people he loves and he can't risk people to know that Lois knows Superman's identity. Therefore there are some reason as to why he cannot tell her.

That said, yes, being that the situation, it was not quite moral to have sex with her. But that doesn't imply there was not love. But for Superman love cannot be expressed the way the rest of us (should) do.

But that's his dilemma: he loves her but he cannot love her. Under that constant situation things happen. Something like that cannot be under complete control all the time. Both Lois and Superman are always trying to attract the other, one way or another. And it's not like Superman is made out of steel (pun).

Jason was born out of the passion and love of both Supes and Lois. But including all the obstacles that love and passion have. It's everything but an easy thing with an easy solution. That sounds perfect material for a story (conflict whose solution cannot be easily found).

It is such the attraction and love that Superman felt he was going to be simply unable to go to Krypton to see what was remain of it (survivors?). Now, I've said many times that Superman not saying good-bye was a useless narrative device.

Ideally for me, Superman goes to Lois to say good-bye. He tells her he might not be able to ever return. And then, since it's the last time they will see each other, they fall for passion. The next day, Lois begs Superman to stay, that there's something between them. That he cannot be as selfish as to go to an extint planet. "It's my race, my roots. I gotta go to see if there someone like me out there," he claims. And then Lois gets angry and goes away. Superman leaves Earth. Lois grows a rage against the man who seduced her, showed her a world of happiness only to shut the door of it for a chunk of meteor. Out of spite she gets involved with Richard 6 days later and starts writing "Why the world doesn't need Superman."

So... THAT's what I'd change and that's how I'd change it.

Ok, that's fair enough.

I just felt that the strength of the story had a foundation in this special bond that Superman and Lois shared. We are to believe that there was something very special between them, a relationship that was built on love honesty and trust. Out of which this passion grew. If he trust this woman with all his heart and chose to be open with her, he should believe that she would never under any circumstances devulge that information. And Lois would keep that secret out of the love and respect she once had for a man she loved.

I always felt that since it seems to be widely known Lois had a relationship with Superman should an enemy appear Lois's life could be endangered anyways like in Superman 2.

Anyways, I think had she known it would have made the story much more meaningful in regards to Jason simply because now when he returns he still has to deal with a world that has moved on without him and that includes the former love of his life and the later discovery of a son as a result of his absence. The same challenges confront Clark as well as the decision to leave and the dynamic of Lois and Clark seeing each other after 5 years and finally getting that moment of explanation. I could have related to Jason further because he was born out of something that certainly was secret but also pure and wholesome. It really reminds you of the bond shared between Jor-el and his wife and the parallels of sacrifices made by Jor-el and now the same being made by Clark. I would have loved to see the manner in which you described in how he left wanting to tell Lois and providing her with an explanation as to why he felt necessary to leave before the night of passion instead of the plain reasoning that it was too hard for him. But, I guess telling her the truth and giving her the free will to accept his identity and trust her to keep that a secret would have been my change. And that should have taken place when this relationship got serious and was taken a step further. Further establishing that bond they once had. It could have had the same results for Lois's bitter feelings towards him when he returned.

And I apologize for going in depth and making this so long. I just really wanted to be clear as to why I made my earlier statements. I notice from reading many posters comments on this board that this was a hot topic with many of you. It seems many people who disliked Jason just have a problem with his existence, I just had a problem with the way he was brought into existence. He just seems to stem from an unnecessary plot device that could have been written differently.

Well, it was nice talking to you El Payaso and I am glad you were able to enjoy SR. I hope they finally figure a way to being Superman back to the big screen. You made some good points and I do understand where you are coming from. We seem to both agree on some basic changes in regard to before he left which may have mad the story more relatable. Nice to have an intelligent conversation sometimes my friend. See ya around.

 

[mego joe]

Ok, that's fair enough.

I just felt that the strength of the story had a foundation in this special bond that Superman and Lois shared. We are to believe that there was something very special between them, a relationship that was built on love honesty and trust. Out of which this passion grew. If he trust this woman with all his heart and chose to be open with her, he should believe that she would never under any circumstances devulge that information. And Lois would keep that secret out of the love and respect she once had for a man she loved.

I always felt that since it seems to be widely known Lois had a relationship with Superman should an enemy appear Lois's life could be endangered anyways like in Superman 2.

Anyways, I think had she known it would have made the story much more meaningful in regards to Jason simply because now when he returns he still has to deal with a world that has moved on without him and that includes the former love of his life and the later discovery of a son as a result of his absence. The same challenges confront Clark as well as the decision to leave and the dynamic of Lois and Clark seeing each other after 5 years and finally getting that moment of explanation. I could have related to Jason further because he was born out of something that certainly was secret but also pure and wholesome. It really reminds you of the bond shared between Jor-el and his wife and the parallels of sacrifices made by Jor-el and now the same being made by Clark. I would have loved to see the manner in which you described in how he left wanting to tell Lois and providing her with an explanation as to why he felt necessary to leave before the night of passion instead of the plain reasoning that it was too hard for him. But, I guess telling her the truth and giving her the free will to accept his identity and trust her to keep that a secret would have been my change. And that should have taken place when this relationship got serious and was taken a step further. Further establishing that bond they once had. It could have had the same results for Lois's bitter feelings towards him when he returned.

And I apologize for going in depth and making this so long. I just really wanted to be clear as to why I made my earlier statements. I notice from reading many posters comments on this board that this was a hot topic with many of you. It seems many people who disliked Jason just have a problem with his existence, I just had a problem with the way he was brought into existence. He just seems to stem from an unnecessary plot device that could have been written differently.

Well, it was nice talking to you El Payaso and I am glad you were able to enjoy SR. I hope they finally figure a way to being Superman back to the big screen. You made some good points and I do understand where you are coming from. We seem to both agree on some basic changes in regard to before he left which may have mad the story more relatable. Nice to have an intelligent conversation sometimes my friend. See ya around.

That's a nice post spiderine. I would agree that my biggest problem with the storyline is the way in which Jason was brought into existence, but for the purposes of sequels Jason's very existence proves problematic as well.