I'm going to be that guy - TMNT Flaws/Critiques/Spoilers

[Loki882]

I didn't really mind 'The Foot' to be honest, they seemed to made out as a threat to citizens and cops which I assume is what they were going for. Making the Turtles out to be all the more heroic.

They were pretty crap in the 1990 movie too, well, I thought they were anyway.

At least there their incompetence made sense and they were still technically ninja. Poorly-trained ones, but ninja nonetheless. Here, they're just a bunch of generic paramilitary guys with guns because Michael Bay has a military fetish.

 

[Marvin]

Seriously dude? I know that you take offense to anyone who says anything bad about the movie, and will defend it to the hilt, but this is pushing it.

-A super-rich guy is going to risk his entire fortune just to make more money.
-It's kind of pointless to control a city if most everyone in it is dead and the place is a fallout center.
-They're going to pump the nerve agent out of the Sach's corporate HQ in downtown NYC. That's pretty much the dumbest way that they could possibly go about this plot, they honestly think that no one in NYC, the media capital of the world, is going to notice that or get suspicious, really?
-They magically have the antidote to this catastrophe sweeping through NYC all of the sudden. Yeah no one will question or be suspicious of that.
-It's a blatant rip-off of the finale to TASM.

The only thing I actually take offense to is when people either put words in my mouth or give their own shape to my intentions. But thanks anyways. Simple truth is, I see things said I don't agree with and I give my opinion on said things. Dude described the plot as evidence as to how the plot was flawed. I'd rather he go a step further into maybe explaining how it's flawed...

As for your explanation:
-"super rich guys" risk plenty for more money all the time, both in fiction(such as superman or spiderman for example) and in real life(see insider trading). Or am I wrong?
-So his goal is to 'control the city'. I thought it was to make money? I'd imagine Shredder was the one interested in power. Secondly, not sure if you know how many people live in new york but wiping out even half of that number would still leave a massive city's worth of people.
-Does anyone see Sach's himself launch the agent? Does anyone see the giant mechanized masked leader of the urban terrorist organization launch the agent off of his building...seems like any good lawyer worth his salt could close that case as well as win him a defamation suit in the process. Get 'suspicious' all you want, he's still going to get his money(I'd imagine the city already loves him given what I've seen). Next I'll be hearing that people will be suspicious of clark kent or better yet stark tech landing in the hands of terrorists...it's a movie.
-What's there to get suspicious about when it comes to a research company making an antidote? Especially if they don't come up with it the next day or the day after...What's more, just have the same terrorists offer up the antidote for ransom. Eric can still have his money in the end.

-I don't see how it's a spiderman rip off. Unless spiderman was about a villain wanting to make money off of releasing a toxin into a population and privatizing the cure. That it was to be launched off an antenna is like saying TDKR is a rip off of True Lies cause they both have nukes in cities by way of Turkish gulf terrorists. Like if you keep everything the same but have Sachs launch the agent from a plane, then this superficial connection erased high lighting how paper thin the correlation was to begin with.

Does this thing need to be called inspector gadget before people stop with the microscope? It's like if Michael Bay made the Space Jam reboot it would be this same hypocritical circus.

 

[TH29]

It's not a superficial connection. Its the exact same climax as ASM. A timed countdown to launch the deadly agent from the villains buildings tower to poison the city while he fights off the hero(s). I mean c'mon... Didnt the writer think "hey this is too similar to the end of Amazing Spider-Man, we shouldnt do this?"

 

[Marvin]

It's superficial. Had it happened on another location(superficial); like say the ground(city streets)...this would be far more apparent. All you did just now was point to the superficial similarities. Like if it happened at night that would be another thing listed superficial. Alot(alot) of fighting movies of the boxing or kummite nature tend to end in a similar climax. However it's not until you have karate kid literally remake karate kid, motivation, execution, kick, beats at all that you hear about real comparisons. Van damme or rocky being the heavy in a ring in the last round after being the underdog is superficial. I digress though.

The only thing they didn't account for is how people would approach this. To find 'similarity' a bad thing. I suppose had ASM been better received it may have gone better. Then again, something seemed to stop TDKR from similar comparisons to 66 Batman.

 

[Iron_Stark]

Also Splinter learns ninjitsu from a book.

Joe Calzaghe, undefeated light heavyweight world boxing champion who got inducted into boxing Hall of Fame this year, learned boxing from his dad teaching him from a book. So I'll take Splinter learning from a book over a normal rat mimicing his owner from a cage like the '90 version. Or reincarnation.



The only thing I didn't like were the looks of the turtles, lips, nose, etc and how they dressed, although Leo and Ralph were pretty cool.

 

[Loki882]

Yeah, no he didn't. He had a long amateur career before turning pro. Also, Boxing and Martial Arts/Ninjutsu are NOT the same thing, so the comparison doesn't work anyway.

 

[Loki882]

The only thing I actually take offense to is when people either put words in my mouth or give their own shape to my intentions. But thanks anyways. Simple truth is, I see things said I don't agree with and I give my opinion on said things. Dude described the plot as evidence as to how the plot was flawed. I'd rather he go a step further into maybe explaining how it's flawed...

As for your explanation:
-"super rich guys" risk plenty for more money all the time, both in fiction(such as superman or spiderman for example) and in real life(see insider trading). Or am I wrong?
-So his goal is to 'control the city'. I thought it was to make money? I'd imagine Shredder was the one interested in power. Secondly, not sure if you know how many people live in new york but wiping out even half of that number would still leave a massive city's worth of people.
-Does anyone see Sach's himself launch the agent? Does anyone see the giant mechanized masked leader of the urban terrorist organization launch the agent off of his building...seems like any good lawyer worth his salt could close that case as well as win him a defamation suit in the process. Get 'suspicious' all you want, he's still going to get his money(I'd imagine the city already loves him given what I've seen). Next I'll be hearing that people will be suspicious of clark kent or better yet stark tech landing in the hands of terrorists...it's a movie.
-What's there to get suspicious about when it comes to a research company making an antidote? Especially if they don't come up with it the next day or the day after...What's more, just have the same terrorists offer up the antidote for ransom. Eric can still have his money in the end.

-I don't see how it's a spiderman rip off. Unless spiderman was about a villain wanting to make money off of releasing a toxin into a population and privatizing the cure. That it was to be launched off an antenna is like saying TDKR is a rip off of True Lies cause they both have nukes in cities by way of Turkish gulf terrorists. Like if you keep everything the same but have Sachs launch the agent from a plane, then this superficial connection erased high lighting how paper thin the correlation was to begin with.

Does this thing need to be called inspector gadget before people stop with the microscope? It's like if Michael Bay made the Space Jam reboot it would be this same hypocritical circus.

No, the movie doesn't get a pass just because it's TMNT. It's not nitpicking, it's huge problems with the narrative as a whole. Sorry, but a movie has a basic duty not to be stupid. It's also not "hypocritical" to call this movie out on it's flaws. If you're argument is "it's just a movie" then you never had much of an argument to begin with, that's an excuse nothing more. Especially since we've seen TMNT done much better and with more intelligence in other places. And if you don't like people pointing that out, too bad.

-It's an incredibly lame/generic plot. Seriously, he wants money, wow we've never seen that kind of villain plot before.

-Oh please. The virus came from his building, and his company conveniently developed the antidote, and he stands to reap all of the profits of said antidote. There's going to be a massive investigation and that's going to get noticed. Stark wasn't shooting off rockets a people from the top of his own damn corporate HQ, so the comparison doesn't work, sorry. Oh and people DID get suspicious in the first film, the reporter lady even confronted him about it, and that's just because of some no-name town in Afghanistan, not freaking NYC. And no, he WOULDN'T get his money if there's an investigation. I actually work in the criminal justice system, so you're not going to win this argument.

-As for the "no one saw him do it." Most murders don't have eyewitnesses. Hell a large percentage of crimes in general don't have those, so that argument is completely ludicrous. No one SAW Scott Peterson murder his wife, but he's still currently sitting on Death Row in California. That's what an investigation is for, you follow the bread crumbs (which are pretty damn easy to spot in this case).

 

[Human Torch]

Joe Calzaghe, undefeated light heavyweight world boxing champion who got inducted into boxing Hall of Fame this year, learned boxing from his dad teaching him from a book. So I'll take Splinter learning from a book over a normal rat mimicing his owner from a cage like the '90 version. Or reincarnation.

I've heard all the excuses for "So & so learned (insert fighting skill) from a book!" and yeah,maybe that could happen.I'm not really disputing that.


But it's boring as hell!


Would you want to see a Batman origin where it had Bruce Wayne learning all his fighting skills and detective abilities from reading a book?Pretty compelling,eh?

I rest my case.

 

[Nathan]

Learning from a book isn't even that bad. A more interesting direction would have been Splinter finding Ninjitsu Scrolls, from his Master Hamato Yoshi. The fact that this new origin kills any ties to Yoshi and Saki is what sucks.

 

[Iron_Stark]

Yeah, no he didn't. He had a long amateur career before turning pro. Also, Boxing and Martial Arts/Ninjutsu are NOT the same thing, so the comparison doesn't work anyway.

What does his amateur career have to do with anything? His dad was interviewed once, before the Roy Jones Jr fight and said he taught his son boxing from a book.

Both deal with the art of combat, and got to the highest level possible from a book, so how is it not the same thing.

How would you have handled their learning?

I've heard all the excuses for "So & so learned (insert fighting skill) from a book!" and yeah,maybe that could happen.I'm not really disputing that.


But it's boring as hell!


Would you want to see a Batman origin where it had Bruce Wayne learning all his fighting skills and detective abilities from reading a book?Pretty compelling,eh?

I rest my case.

Boring but it makes more sense than a lab rat or pet mimicking someone's training. Or reincarnation, or a human living in a sewer turning into whatever they were last in contact with.

Come to think of, all of those have been different origin for Splinter in various types of media. So there really isn't any need to cry and moan about a new origin.

And Bruce Wayne would need some sort of schooling to learn forensic science, so some school books would be required. He's not just going to wake up one day and just show up to a crime scene and solve a case. If you think someone as smart as Bruce Wayne didn't read books to learn things, then you're just fooling yourself.

I agree with Nathan, old Ninjitsu scrolls would've been more interesting.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Joe Calzaghe, undefeated light heavyweight world boxing champion who got inducted into boxing Hall of Fame this year, learned boxing from his dad teaching him from a book. So I'll take Splinter learning from a book over a normal rat mimicing his owner from a cage like the '90 version. Or reincarnation.

Boxing is one thing, but I'm pretty sure the ancient secret art of ninjutsu wouldn't keep many of their secrets in a small book written in English. It would be a basic self defense tutorial, not exactly making Splinter a ninjutsu master. Also that still doesn't explain why an American rat reading a ninjutsu book turns him Japanese.

 

[Human Torch]

What does his amateur career have to do with anything? His dad was interviewed once, before the Roy Jones Jr fight and said he taught his son boxing from a book.

Both deal with the art of combat, and got to the highest level possible from a book, so how is it not the same thing.

How would you have handled their learning?




Boring but it makes more sense than a lab rat or pet mimicking someone's training. Or reincarnation, or a human living in a sewer turning into whatever they were last in contact with.

Come to think of, all of those have been different origin for Splinter in various types of media. So there really isn't any need to cry and moan about a new origin.

And Bruce Wayne would need some sort of schooling to learn forensic science, so some school books would be required. He's not just going to wake up one day and just show up to a crime scene and solve a case. If you think someone as smart as Bruce Wayne didn't read books to learn things, then you're just fooling yourself.

I agree with Nathan, old Ninjitsu scrolls would've been more interesting.

The comparison would be if Bruce went into his library,found a book his dad might've read 30 years earlier and from that learned to be the greatest detective ever.It's boring and unreasonably lazy writing.They did this to themselves by not making Splinter Hamato Yoshi,(which is my preferred origin.) It's not the biggest problem,though.That would be having no ties between Splinter & Shredder.(Which I supposed could be salvaged,but I'm not having high hopes that they will)

 

[Marvin]

The comparison would be if Bruce went into his library,found a book his dad might've read 30 years earlier and from that learned to be the greatest detective ever.It's boring and unreasonably lazy writing.They did this to themselves by not making Splinter Hamato Yoshi,(which is my preferred origin.) It's not the biggest problem,though.That would be having no ties between Splinter & Shredder.(Which I supposed could be salvaged,but I'm not having high hopes that they will)

Actually, it's more like if Bruce found a book on boxing. That is, one school of the many things he's actually mastered in his lifetime. Using Batman and reducing all the various things he's mastered over his life in this comparison is odd. A better example would be:

A young boy finds a hardcover book of wizardry and becomes a wise old wizard.

All this talk of boring life implies the first film gave splinter a super interesting life prior to his sewer dwelling...

 

[Iron_Stark]

The comparison would be if Bruce went into his library,found a book his dad might've read 30 years earlier and from that learned to be the greatest detective ever.It's boring and unreasonably lazy writing.They did this to themselves by not making Splinter Hamato Yoshi,(which is my preferred origin.) It's not the biggest problem,though.That would be having no ties between Splinter & Shredder.(Which I supposed could be salvaged,but I'm not having high hopes that they will)

Well it's not really lazy writing, it's working with what they had. You have to remember Sacks was supposed to be Shredder from the beginning and he was supposed to have tied in with Splinter and then the turtles being aliens, and then all the reshoots and re-writes.

So this whole thing has been a huge cluster f- from the beginning.

Hopefully the sequel fixes some stuff.

I'm not saying this movie didn't have it's problems, I'm happy with what we got and not the alternative.

 

[Marvin]

No, the movie doesn't get a pass just because it's TMNT. It's not nitpicking, it's huge problems with the narrative as a whole. Sorry, but a movie has a basic duty not to be stupid. It's also not "hypocritical" to call this movie out on it's flaws. If you're argument is "it's just a movie" then you never had much of an argument to begin with, that's an excuse nothing more. Especially since we've seen TMNT done much better and with more intelligence in other places. And if you don't like people pointing that out, too bad.

-It's an incredibly lame/generic plot. Seriously, he wants money, wow we've never seen that kind of villain plot before.

The first part is you putting words in my mouth once more. I was speaking on consistency. That is, any film can be featured in a cinema sin/honesttrailer/HISHE parody, especially in this series so why stop here? That's great that we've seen it supposedly done better in other places, when I speak of giving it's simplicity a pass, I'm specifically speaking of the instances where the material has been just as silly yet celebrated. As for movies having basic duties, this is why I point to things like Space Jam and ask where you are pulling these rules from. A film has a 'basic duty' to be entertaining and to engage it's audience.

-Now it's about how generic it is? So it's not about how little sense it makes but rather about seeing this(supposedly highly illogical thing) over and over again in various films? That it's unoriginal is your actual issue?
Anyways this is the part where I point to how this film seems to have a higher microscope than most others. I mean villains with generic motivations? Like that's the first time we've seen that this month/summer/year/decade even from the more celebrated cbms but lo and behold...talking point central. Secondly, he had a partner villain and superior that didn't seem too interested in money.

-Oh please. The virus came from his building, and his company conveniently developed the antidote, and he stands to reap all of the profits of said antidote. There's going to be a massive investigation and that's going to get noticed. Stark wasn't shooting off rockets a people from the top of his own damn corporate HQ, so the comparison doesn't work, sorry. Oh and people DID get suspicious in the first film, the reporter lady even confronted him about it, and that's just because of some no-name town in Afghanistan, not freaking NYC. And no, he WOULDN'T get his money if there's an investigation. I actually work in the criminal justice system, so you're not going to win this argument.

-As for the "no one saw him do it." Most murders don't have eyewitnesses. Hell a large percentage of crimes in general don't have those, so that argument is completely ludicrous. No one SAW Scott Peterson murder his wife, but he's still currently sitting on Death Row in California. That's what an investigation is for, you follow the bread crumbs (which are pretty damn easy to spot in this case).

The comparison works fine if you pay attention to what is actually being compared. People can and will suspect foal play but if they can't prove it they will be none the wiser, this is precisely how Wilson Fisk operates. What's more, as crazy as Lizard, Electro, Rhino are in their goals, the public seemingly understands that these are terrorists acting on their own behalf and not in the interests of the Oscorp board. There is technically a distinction there just saying. That's great that there is supposedly going to be a massive investigation, that doesn't mean anybody is going to find anything that will stick. And yes he can still conceivably get his money. Unless of course you are under the impression that the gov't will simply stand by whilst population after population is wiped out. History in Criminal Law or not he'll legally get his money if the evidence doesn't hold up(and you haven't proved that it will), or if he simply outs himself and demands a full ransom. You seem to be under the impression that Sach's isn't willing to become a full blown villain. The most obvious way would be if he used this event as a demonstration then went with the terrorist/world leader/war lord auction for both the weapon and cure. All of that could be handled by the foot.

No one saw OJ do it, and last time I checked he was ruled innocent. I don't have to have a law degree to understand that one is innocent till proven guilty and it's about what can be proved. Surely you can see what you are doing here? I'm talking about the story working under the premise that he can get away with it the way criminals and corporations get away things in our imperfect system, and you are harping on how unlikely that is, so it's all for nothing. This material in particular being rooted in satire...
I find it amazing that Luthor himself has stayed out of jail for so long. What with no one actually 'seeing' him do all his crap. Maybe someone should alert his detractors as to what it is an 'investigation' is for.

 

[BatLobster]

These debates get exhausting after a while. Shredder has always just been a pretty simple villain, who was cool and intimidating despite not having the most interesting of motivations.

 

[Human Torch]

I don't know if it's a flaw or I'm just missing something but I've seen the film twice now,and I still don't know where they got the mutagen to save Splinter.

Sacks had one can in the office.April took it after he got knocked out and told Shredder it's the last one.Shredder got it,takes the fall and it breaks on the ground.

So where did the mutagen to revive Splinter come from?

 

[NinjaTurtleFan]

This movie....

 

[Human Torch]

I enjoyed this film as much as the next guy,but to say this film didn't have lazy writing,c'mon now.......

 

[Nathan]

The question shouldn't be where they got the mutagen from, the question should be why did Splinter need the mutagen at all? They extracted the mutagen from the Turtle's blood. The same mutagen that also courses through Splinter's veins. If the mutagen allows for rapid cell regeneration, then the Turtles and Splinter should have a healing factor like Wolverine.

 

[NinjaTurtleFan]

Which goes back to the argument that many of us made time and time again that they made the Turtles too powerful. Yet while they have bulletproof shells... Raph gets his cracked by Shredder stepping on it. But I'm sure someone on here will go into a big spiel in defense of it and give a phony baloney explanation for it.

 

[Nathan]

And there's also the moment Raph can't slide on the snow, because of his cracked shell, yet he's got no problem with crushing into a jeep like a cannonball.

 

[Milu]

Which goes back to the argument that many of us made time and time again that they made the Turtles too powerful. Yet while they have bulletproof shells... Raph gets his cracked by Shredder stepping on it. But I'm sure someone on here will go into a big spiel in defense of it and give a phony baloney explanation for it.

Well maybe Raph kept upgrading his Ballistic Armor, and forgot to upgrade his Combat Armor.

 

[Human Torch]

The question shouldn't be where they got the mutagen from, the question should be why did Splinter need the mutagen at all? They extracted the mutagen from the Turtle's blood. The same mutagen that also courses through Splinter's veins. If the mutagen allows for rapid cell regeneration, then the Turtles and Splinter should have a healing factor like Wolverine.

That was another weak aspect.Splinter is dying of internal injuries (I guess-the film doesn't really make it clear) and they need the Mutagen,which in this film is a cure all???It makes animals intelligent,heals toxic poisoning and also cures internal bleeding and crushed bones?

 

[Nebraska]

I don't know if it's a flaw or I'm just missing something but I've seen the film twice now,and I still don't know where they got the mutagen to save Splinter.

Sacks had one can in the office.April took it after he got knocked out and told Shredder it's the last one.Shredder got it,takes the fall and it breaks on the ground.

So where did the mutagen to revive Splinter come from?

Oh man, you stopped way too soon with the questions.

How about why did Shredder and the Foot leave Raph (presumed dead) and Splinter (dying) in the sewers and only take the three turtles? They needed blood. Raph and Splinter's blood was still valuable whether they are alive or dead. But to prevent the movie from ending right then and there the villains left 40% of available mutagen lying in the sewers. Poor writing.

Then, shortly after that April calls Vernon from a pay phone. He answers and says, "OOOOO'Neil." Umm, how, what, huh? Was that her personal pay phone or something? How did he know who was calling him?

Also, when Sacks is in the lab trying to kill (I assume) April and Vernon he just stays by the desk and shoots in their general direction even though they are hiding. Why not just walk over and shoot them, because you know they are unarmed.

Then earlier in the film, April "stays up all night" making that stupid presentation for her boss, but NEVER, NOT ONE SINGLE TIME does she show good 'ole Whoopi the picture of the four, six-foot, ninja turtles that she took on her phone. But, after getting ****-canned, she drives over to the villain's mansion and the ONE AND ONLY thing she shows him is the freaking picture.

Those are just a few more execution issues.

Not to mention, Raph's speech at the end rang hollow considering the creative geniuses responsible for this steaming pile of **** failed to show any of the nonsense Raph was apparently apologizing for leading up to that scene. It was embarrassing to watch.

I know there are a few people running around trashing every other film in defense of this crap and it's gotten ridiculous. There really is no explaining any of what I just addressed (including the portion I quoted), because there is no explanation for them in the movie.

I apologize to Marvin and FrostBite, and anyone else who thought this movie was good. That is simply not true. It's not a matter of taste or personal opinion. This does not deserve a sequel.