BvS *SPOILERS* Attempt to Address 30 Plot Holes

Discussion in 'Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice' started by turbosjc7, Jun 2, 2016.

  1. turbosjc7 Civilian

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    Hello everyone,


    I am new to the forum. I am not sure if there is already a thread for this, but I thought I might attempt to explain some of the "plot holes" most people had problems with in the film. I will try to address as many as I can but feel free to add others and/or support/refute my reasoning (in the most civilized manner, please :D). I’ll try to do this chronologically.

    However, to preface all of this, I hope people would view BvS from the perspective this is an entirely new universe separate from the comics: yes it may draw from famous storylines (“Dark Knight Returns,” “Death of a Family,” “Death of Superman,” “Injustice,” “Flashpoint,” “Tower of Babel,” etc.) but this is a new story and is only the second of many movies in the DCEU. Therefore, some things may be unexplained as of yet but give the movie a chance! (Ultimate Edition anyone?) So, let’s try to understand Superman is not the fully-realized one we all know so well, Batman is a ruthless and changed/jaded superhero, and Lex Luthor is Lex Luthor Jr.: he is another Luthor! (Yes, Jimmy Olsen’s death was “cruel” but Snyder was letting us all know from the very beginning this is not our parents’ Superman & Batman.)

    1) How did Superman save Lois in Africa?
    The Africa scene was setup by Lex Jr. to frame Superman; therefore, Lex Jr. must have tipped off Superman/Clark that Lois was in danger so Superman/Clark must have flown off immediately from Metropolis (Lois realized this when she had her meeting with Secretary Swanwick). This explains how Supes saved Lois. Also, did no one notice KG Beast looking up at the sky seemingly looking for something before him and the rest of his mercenaries start shooting people (perhaps Lex Jr. instructed KG Beast that Superman was on the way via bluetooth after Lex Jr. observes Clark/Superman flying off to Africa)?

    1a) When/How did Lex Jr. know Superman and Batman’s secret identities?
    Lex Jr. knew Superman and Batman's secret identities from the very beginning (“I love bringing people together”). The prequel comics establishes Lex Jr. has been observing metahumans for quite sometime. Also, what kind of genius would Lex Jr. be if he didn’t know who Superman and Batman really were? (I am going to start referring to “Lex Jr.” simply as “Lex” since I hope I made the point this is a different Lex.)

    2) Superman kills!
    Superman probably didn’t kill the African general holding Lois hostage (“I didn’t kill those people”): he may have cradled/shielded the general when he went through the wall. You just couldn't tell because Supes was flying at super-speed.

    3) Superman was framed for killing Africans with bullets.
    The African woman who testified was paid to lie by Lex (did you notice Mercy was at the hearing)? Also, as Secretary Swanwick told Lois later in the film, the problem with Superman was that whenever he showed up “people die.” Following the theme of MoS, Superman is feared for the collateral damage he caused/can cause which also supports Batman’s reasoning to eliminate Superman (which I will get into a little more later). But some people are saying they don’t understand how Superman could be blamed for the deaths when they were killed by bullets: when was Superman explicitly blamed for these specific deaths via gunfire? The only thing he was accused of was the death of the African villagers by the African lady, not those killed with gunfire. (But even the deaths of the African villagers could have been setup to look like Superman did it by KG Beast and his mercenaries via flame throwers so this is not out of the realm of possibility...but the main Superman-problem this scene establishes is whenever Superman shows up, people get hurt.)

    4) Why did Lex ask for Zod’s body when he already experimented on it with Kryptonite?
    Lex probably had access to Zod’s body to do tests while Zod’s corpse was in the government’s hands but had to ask for it explicitly in order to conduct further tests.

    5) How did Lex hack into the ship?
    I will address this more in #11, but again, Lex probably already had limited access to the ship and probably noticed the handprint: therefore, he realized he needed Zod’s fingerprints.

    6) Lex was badly played: did you see his library speech?
    I thought it and Jesse’s performance as a whole was weird too at first but, after rewatching BvS, I really admired Jesse’s performance...especially knowing he knew Clark and Bruce’s identity from the very beginning: I thought how he manipulated everything was pretty masterful. Also, Jesse did say some scenes were cut out: I wouldn’t be surprised if Lex’s library speech was cut short because he was surprised to see Diana there (but I am just speculating: we’ll have to wait and see until the UE to see if the deleted scenes can add further clarity towards Jesse’s performance). But Jesse plays a really great crazy/genius/mad scientist which is what Lex was in the film: a different Lex we’ve never seen before.

    7) Why would Batman fight Superman?
    Batman is a master tactician: he leaves nothing to chance. Knowing Superman’s power cannot be checked (“Gods fall from the sky”), the possible collateral damage that could ensue (which Bruce was witness to firsthand in the MoS Zod battle in the beginning of the film), and given his own history (“no good guys are left”), Batman takes it upon himself to stop Superman (with a little egging on by Lex) knowing even Superman could turn evil (which is further reinforced by the Knightmare sequence). Batman takes no chances (see “Tower of Babel” where, due to Batman’s paranoia, he has stored plans to stop every metahuman/member of the JL should they ever turn evil despite them all being friends/teammates of Batman).

    8) Batman doesn't kill!
    Again, this is an older, more jaded Batman: something has happened in his past that has made this Batman compromise his “one rule” (I am sure a “Death in the Family” scene was cut out when we are shown Robin’s bullet-riddled costume). This is established when Bruce says, “We’re criminals Alfred, nothing’s changed” and Alfred acknowledges that Bruce himself has crossed the line even further than Bruce himself thinks by his “Feeling of powerlessness that turns good men...cruel” speech.

    9) If Batman kills, why is the Suicide Squad/Joker not dead?
    Perhaps they were incarcerated before Batman changed his one rule.

    10) Why was the Flash scene even necessary?
    This reinforced the Knightmare was a very possible future if Superman was not stopped. It also plants the seed in Bruce’s mind to find other metahumans (“A feeling”).

    11) Why did Batman plant a homing device on the trailer carrying the Kryptonite if he was going to steal it later?
    This was in case his first attempt to get the Kryptonite failed (again, Batman takes no chances), which was the correct backup plan because Superman crashed the party.

    12) Why didn’t Superman stop Lex's men when Batman was chasing them?
    Snyder said that a cut scene from the movie (when Superman was looking for his mom) establishes that the maximum range of Superman's senses is within a city; therefore, Superman might have happened upon the car chase and seen the batmobile chasing a half-destroyed trailer and suspected that it was Batman who had initiated the carnage (Clark referred to this earlier with Perry that the “Bat” was acting with impunity around the ports/docks) and decided to warn Batman to stop ("Consider this mercy").

    13) Why didn’t Superman hear the bomb on Capital HIll?
    Really? It is 2016 and some of us think bombs are sticks of dynamite attached to a clock that ticks? Again, Superman is learning to use his powers and later admits to Lois that he “didn’t see it” (i.e. there was nothing to hear). This scene established that carnage truly does seemingly follow Superman wherever he goes which causes him to doubt himself and leads him to self-exile. (Lex was great here with the jar of piss and we see how crazy he is by having Mercy “save him a seat.”)

    14) How does Lex hack into the ship?
    This is a pretty big plot hole that starts from MoS, but having the command key pretty much gives you access to the ship and it already knows who you are. (Jor-El knew who Lois Lane was when she inserted the command key...how I don’t know because, like I said, this is a pretty big plot hole but who can explain crazy alien technology? :p) Lex also inserted the command key and assumed charge of the ship and began to learn about alien history/technology from the “hundreds of thousands of years” of archival information. It is probably here Lex learned about the “desecration without name” and how it could be brought to life with living “foreign genetic material” and began formulating his plan to bring the creature to life. He also probably thought it would be sentient and therefore able to be communicated with somehow (of which he grossly miscalculated evidenced by Lex just standing there before Superman stops Doomsday from punching Lex). I’ll address Lex’s plan later in depth.

    15) Why didn’t Superman hear Martha being captured?
    Again, Superman can hear within a city but not further than that.

    16) How did Luthor time Martha’s kidnapping with the Bat Signal?
    Martha may have been kidnapped for days: we don’t know. All I know is when Batman’s signal went off, Lex knew he would be there. So he orders his men to kidnap Lois Lane and bring her to him so he could throw her off the building to get Superman’s attention and initiate his plan.

    17) How did Superman save Lois if he was in the Himalayas?
    Who knows for sure if Superman was still in the Himalayas? Maybe after his talk with his dad he decided to come back and heard Lois scream. Obviously this is a plot device that moves the narrative forward but not completely out of the question.

    18) Why didn’t Superman use his super senses to find Martha?
    Again, Snyder says Superman tried to but couldn’t find her in Metropolis (his senses go as far as the city limits). Therefore, he had to try to get Batman to help him.

    19) The whole fight between Batman and Superman could’ve been handled with better communication.
    Superman actually tried to reason with Bruce before they start to fight (he even told Lois he had to get Batman to help him...or else). “Bruce, I was wrong. You have to listen to me. Lex...” But when Batman’s traps start going off, Superman realizes he has to subdue Batman first in order to make him listen to him.

    20) Why doesn’t Batman react to the fact Superman figured out his secret identity?
    It didn’t matter to Bruce because he was confident Superman was dying that night.

    21) Why does Lois get a chopper?
    Actually, I think Perry White realizes here that Superman and Clark are the same person and agrees to give Lois the chopper. I found it telling that at the end, Perry turns from the front page to the obituaries. Again, like Lex, it further establishes how real Snyder’s universe is if the smart people all know Superman’s secret identity (Lois, Lex, and Perry).

    22) Since Superman and Batman’s moms both have the same name, Batman decides to not kill Superman?
    I don’t think it was as simple a scene as that. Rather than viewing Superman as an alien who had to be stopped at all costs, Bruce finally sees Superman as a person with a mother: it humanized Superman. The name reminded Batman of why he became the Batman in the first place: to avenge the death of his father, Thomas, and his mother Martha, by fighting crime. Now, with a spear aimed at Superman’s heart, he finally realizes he has turned into the very thing he swore he would stop: a criminal. (I will also add here when Batman saves Martha, some of those scenes at the docks/ports never explicitly show Batman killing anyone even though he used guns and blew things up...even KG Beast [who I think could still appear in the future DCEU but, admittedly, with bad burns :D]).

    23) Why would Superman say “Martha” instead of “My mom”? Why would he let Batman go after his mom?
    Would you say, “Save my mom” (and pretty much give your secret identity away) or “Save [a woman named] Martha?” I thought this was the most self-evident part of the movie. Secondly, Superman was needed at the ship which was too big a problem for Batman. I think the fight convinced Superman that Batman could handle saving his mom (he did almost kill Superman).

    24) Why would Batman lead Doomsday back to Gotham? Why didn’t he let Alfred fly the plane?
    Like he told Wonder Woman, the Gotham ports where the spear was left are abandoned. Also, Alfred seemed genuinely surprised he had to take controls of the plane in the first place so I don’t think he is a professional pilot.

    25) Why would Wonder Woman come out of hiding for a photograph if she’s trying to keep her identity a secret?
    She knows Lex could release the photograph (with other evidence like the ATM footage) and reveal her existence; hence it was imperative she got the photo back from him. No one alive really knew who she was except Lex so she wasn't really at risk of outing herself.

    26) Lois Lane was such a dumb character: she was just there to be saved/a plot device.
    Actually, I thought her character was doing what a reporter does: following leads to get to a story (like the interview with the general in Africa, figuring out it was Lex who framed Superman by putting her in danger’s way, and figuring out the spear that Batman used to almost kill Superman might be used to stop Doomsday).

    27) Why didn’t Superman get Wonder Woman to throw the spear?
    In the heat of battle, you are thinking of what you can do to accomplish a mission at that moment...not handing off that responsibility to someone else. Besides, wouldn’t there be a possibility that Doomsday could knock down a spear that was thrown at him? Also, with Wonder Woman having lassoed Doomsday and Batman hitting him with kryptonite, Superman saw an opening and took it.

    28) Why didn’t the kryptonite weaken Superman like it did earlier when Batman used it?
    When Batman used it, it was in vaporized form which probably affected Superman faster and with greater effect. In solid form, it probably did so to a lesser extent but still weakened Superman.

    29) What was Lex’s plan?
    Lex was obsessed with bringing Superman down (see: Africa). In the beginning, Lex’s plan was to destroy Superman with the kryptonite. But when Batman stole it, he adjusted his plan by orchestrating a fight between the two. By forcing Superman to kill Batman, Lex would present to the world how dangerous, fallible, and “the fraud” Superman was OR have Batman kill Superman so Lex could be rid of him AND THEN have Doomsday kill the one left over with the assumption that Lex was going to be able to control the beast (which, I explained earlier, was a miscalculation on Lex’s part evidenced by Superman saving Lex before Doomsday is able punch Lex).

    30) The other metahumans are introduced in an email attachment?
    Their existence establishes a world filled with metahumans. Also, how else would they be introduced in 2016? With VCR footage? However, I do acknowledge that the logos was pretty cheesy/shameless product placement for toy lines...but this is a movie, after all.

    Of course, that’s not to say this movie had its problems (Superman hardly talks, the dialogue was really bad, editing was pretty choppy, etc.). Nontheless, that’s all I have. Again, feel free to add more/support/refute!
     
    #1 turbosjc7, Jun 2, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2016
  2. sf2 Superhero

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    you should say "so called" plot holes.
    :D

    btw, welcome. hope the forum will not turn you into dark side. :D

    nice write up..

    btw, doomsday was purely meant for superman. he didn't need doomsday to kill batman. he had no issue with batman (at least from the movie). batman was just another mercy grave to him.
    he strongly believed superman is a fault. superman would kill batman in order to save his mother. and later Lex would order to kill his mom right before superman's eyes. when superman seek for revenge, he would have doomsday to destroy him completely. he thought he could control doomsday with his blood related.

    lex luthor the greatest, the most vicious and the smartest villian of all.
     
    #2 sf2, Jun 2, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2016
  3. Jaxon Sidekick

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    Not one of those are plot holes. The movie is clear on everything but I appreciate the work.
     
    #3 Jaxon, Jun 2, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2016
  4. turbosjc7 Civilian

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    @Jaxon @sf2

    I completely agree (that's why I wrote "plot holes"). :D

    These didn't seem as bad as any other movie! (Did anyone see TFA?)
     
  5. LamboMan Civilian

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    Hi there, thanks for taking the time make this list! Great job, really! :)

    I'd like to add some additions/corrections/refinements to it.

    POINT 6. "But Jesse plays a really great crazy/genius/mad scientist which is what Lex was in the film: a different Lex we’ve never seen before."

    Actually, I'd say that the older versions of Lex were like that. Pretty much straight up mad scientist. Also, to explain why this Lex is the perfect blend of Lex's from the comics, I give you this: http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=33758707&postcount=38

    POINTS 8 & 9. To add to your points: Batman wasn't killing on a one to one basis, where he personally dealt the death blow to the enemy with the SOLE INTENT of killing that enemy out of spite or malice or even vengeance. He kills solely when he is on a mission and someone is hindering his path or is an obstacle in a mission of extreme importance like:

    a. Saving the world from a potential world ending, billions-killing threat, who is good now but could turn bad later.
    b. Saving a friends mother called Martha which gives Batman a chance to feel like he saved his own mother, while ALSO ensuring that Martha doesn't die so that Superman doesn't become evil out of grief of seeing his mom burnt to death, which takes us back to point 'a'.

    Therefore, the deaths were SOLELY relegated to 'Superman world ending fear' related events and were treated as a few collateral criminal casualties who were of less importance than 7 billion innocent others, whose lives were very potentially on the line. He kills like a soldier who doesn't want to kill but will to protect his country's borders when there is an enemy crossing the line and provoking him or impeding his mission of keeping his country safe.

    The 3 or 4 DIRECT kills, which were ALL relegated to people shooting at Batman using gatling guns MOUNTED on vehicles, were impeding his mission and he had to get rid of the gatling guns and so he got rid of the vehicles and there were casualties and that's what happens in war, when you're trying to DEFEND yourself.

    Batman has no reason to kill anyone out of malice when on a one to one basis where only his life or the life of a few innocents is concerned since he will be dealing with enemies of HIS or BELOW HIS power levels, unlike with Superman. He doesn't need to use lethal moves when dealing with controllable and predictable enemies. He DOES when it comes to an uncontrollable and unpredictable enemy like Superman.

    Rest of the kills are all INDIRECT, like smashing the car that was parked, mowing down the one guy in the truck carrying Kryptonite when the Batmobile comes flying through the wall, the grenade guy, KGBeast who wouldn't have died had he turned OFF his flamethrower like a smart man. And no, no one else died during that chase sequence or fight sequence, the guys who got a car thrown on them clearly didn't die since the car didn't even land on the cab area, just mainly on the engine hood.

    To summarise, Batman killed only when:

    a. World ending stakes were involved so he had to choose the lives of 7 billion over that of a few criminals.
    b. In self defence, only when he was being shot at by high caliber gatling guns.
    c. To get rid of the vehicles and weapons of the enemies and if there was collateral, see point 'a'.

    This Batman wouldn't kill a person where just his own personal stakes were involved and where the world wasn't at stake. For him personal stakes had always been in play since Gotham and his Bat family counted as personal stakes and so he hadn't and would never kill enemies of the same or lesser power levels.


    POINT 18. Just to clarify, Zack didn't say that Superman can hear only within city limits, he said that when Superman uses his super hearing to try to locate his mother in that scene, his senses get overwhelmed by the screams and noises of all the crimes and victims of those crimes taking place RIGHT NOW and coming from all directions making him realise that he can't save everyone, which is also another reason why Supes look so distraught in that next scene where he tells Lois that now he will be forced to consider a thing too horrible for him and wasn't thinking straight. Zack said that the scene was too dark so they cut it from the Theatrical Cut.



    POINT 22. To add: He also realises that he had become the very evil that made him lose his entire life in the first place - the murderer who took away a boy from his mother. He was about to become that with that final blow and sees his younger self in Superman, who was just a good man who was helpless to save his mother.

    Also, that's when Bruce realises that he had personal stakes in this fight all along since he equated all Kryptonians to his parents' killer and to the Joker since the Kryptonians also killed his Wayne Financials "family" for "no reason at all" and he was powerless to save them, just like his parents from the shooter and just like Jason Todd from the Joker. He realises that he was doing this to settle a personal score too, and not just for saving the world. He was going to kill a man, someone weaker than him, one on one and out of spite and malice and was going to deal the death blow. (see my response to POINT 8 & 9 tie into this.)

    I've written about this in-depth in my article "About Martha" available here: http://moviepilot.com/posts/3895267 and here: http://dceufilms.proboards.com/thread/40/martha-masculine-feminine-bvs


    POINT 23. Telling a man who hates you, doesn't see you or know you as a man but only as a false god, world ending threat and a killer and who wants you dead at all costs, to save your "mom", would do two things:

    a. He wouldn't realise you're talking about a human adoptive mother and would only have an alien mother of the same caliber in his mind and so he wouldn't give a crap and would continue to kill you and then go have shawarma while your real mother gets bbq'd at the hands of Lex.

    b. Batman didn't know of Superman's real identity as Clark Kent. If Superman would have said "mom", and EVEN IF Batman cared about saving an innocent, for WHOM and WHERE would he have looked first? Who is this "mom", what is her name? Superman's mom had 10 minutes left and in that much time neither Batman nor Alfred would have known where to look and Martha would have been bbq'd at the hands of Lex. (Remember Alfred knows where to look ONLY AFTER Superman tells him that Lex had taken his mother, so they know to track the closest source to Lex, the Russian.)
    Even if Batman made the connection between "Lex wants us to.." and "Find HIM", he still wouldn't have know WHO exactly to save and from where.


    Superman had ONE last breath and LAST chance to get across to Batman that his mother, who was called Martha Kent was going to die and that Batman was letting that happen. If Batman proceeded to kill him, at the very least he'd have a name to go on and could have been able to put the rest together ("Bruce, I was wrong, you have to listen to me, Lex wants us to.." relating to "FIND HIM, save Martha"), maybe not in time, but atleast there was a chance that he could "save Martha".

    Saying "mom" only accomplished getting his mother killed for sure whether Batman cared or didn't.

    TLDR;

    Saying "Find HIM, save my MOM" was a 50/50.
    Saying "Find HIM, save MARTHA" was the ONLY sure shot way of getting Batman to go and look for Lex and save an INNOCENT in case Superman died at that moment.


    POINT 28.
    It did, like they showed when Batman held it over Superman who was extremely weakened by it and also got his cheek cut by it. Also, more importantly, when he retrieved it from the water, he was almost knocked unconscious by it and floated back up like a corpse. He managed to get over it's weakening effects only through sheer force of willpower, which has been shown in the comics, in Superman Returns, and most recently in MoS when he uses his sheer willpower to overcome the weakening effects of the Kryptonian atmosphere around the World Engine.

    POINT 29. Lex's Plan: http://manofsteelanswers.com/lex-luthor-explained/

    POINT 30. Actually, Lex didn't design their logos exclusively. Both Aquaman's A and Wonder Woman's WW come directly from their suits's belts which have those logos already and can also be seen in their images and surveillance footage.

    Flash's footage shows flashes or lightning shaped electricity bolts or arcs whenever he moves, so making the lightning his symbol isn't that much of a stretch. Also, we don't know if Flash already has a suit and if Lex has captured the logo from that.

    Don't know about Cyborg, maybe he has the logo on his suit too or maybe that's the only one that Lex made himself.
     
    #5 LamboMan, Jun 2, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2016
  6. obredaan Civilian

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    25) Why would Wonder Woman come out of hiding for a photograph if she’s trying to keep her identity a secret?
    She knows Lex could release the photograph (with other evidence like the ATM footage) and reveal her existence; hence it was imperative she got the photo back from him. No one alive really knew who she was except Lex so she wasn't really at risk of outing herself.

    This one makes no sense to me.

    1 - How would a photo from WW1 and a random ATM video prove Wonder Woman's existence? A video of someone who resembles someone from a photo taken a 100 years ago is all we need as proof? Where's the link to prove they're the same person? Why would Wonder Woman even be concerned about Lex exposing the photo when it basically proves nothing. Also she had no idea about the ATM footage as she seemed shocked when she first saw it so she only came out of hiding for the photo. She even states that in the movie.

    2 - Your last line basically confirms why it makes no sense for her to even be worried about this photo.

    3 - How did Lex get this photo? How does Lex even know about her being a Meta-Human? Cause he saw an ATM video of a woman who resembles the photo from WW1 and that's it?

    4 - How does WW know that Lex has this photo? This I might have missed but I don't recall how or why WW knew that Lex had the photo.
     
  7. LamboMan Civilian

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    We'll know how her past connects to the present when the WW movie is out. Everything should not and doesn't need to be explained in one movie when they're building a universe.

    Even so an explanation for things isn't that hard to fathom based on what we saw in BvS/know about the universe:

    1. So having one single but still incriminating piece of historic evidence that Amazonians exist, is good for the Amazonians who want to remain hidden from the world? And what's to stop Lex from selling it to someone else, lets say Amanda Waller, or even better, teaming up with her to track down Diana or the Amazonians directly, all based off that piece of evidence. They could start by tracking down the guys or the descendants of the guys in the photos and questioning them. Not a stretch to assume that could be the way they uncover the location of Themiscyra, right?

    2. Refer point 1.

    3. How do we know that's ALL the info he had on her. That's the footage they chose to SHOW to us in the movie. You could clearly see he had tons of files, videos and photos in those folders. Maybe there's more incriminating and clear stuff in there.

    Also, FACIAL RECOGNITION. You can fool the human eye but you can't fool a computer, well not unless you wanted to. And Wondy doesn't use any face altering tech so she looks the same and so the tech already captured her face and identified her as the woman who was in the 100 year old photo.

    4. Everything need not be explained and it will be later on in the prequel movie.
     
  8. TheVileOne Eternal

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    She left man's world behind, why does it even matter that Lex Luthor has a photo of her?
     
  9. sf2 Superhero

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    copyright issue i guess. :D

    it doesn't matter at all if she doesn't know about it...
    but somehow... she was informed that Lex has a photo of her..., don't you think she will be curious to find it out?

    and it's a photo of her lover too... ;) (wait till WW movie)
     
  10. Jaxon Sidekick

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    Because deep down she hasn't really left it and this is evidenced by her return to combat against Doomsday.
     
  11. turbosjc7 Civilian

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    @LamboMan Thanks for sharing your thoughts...especially the logos! I didn't notice those in the film until you pointed them out.
     
  12. LamboMan Civilian

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    I explained it in the post right above yours.

    Cheers mate! :)
     
  13. TheVileOne Eternal

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    OK and? It's a digital copy. That means it's easy to back up. Taking a copy of his hard drive isn't going to magically erase the photo. He could have all that data backed up in his cloud or a private server or an e-mail server even.
     
  14. TheVileOne Eternal

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    One photo doesn't really prove or do anything. You can find photos of big foot or the Loch Ness monster if you want. That doesn't make them real.

    It's a digital copy. What they did isn't necessarily going to stop Lex Luthor from doing any of those things.

    Technically Lexcorp still has all the files. It's not like that thumb drive destroyed them. So if there's more incriminating stuff, they didn't really do much to scrub it.

    In this movie, Diana clearly said she left Man's World behind, so why does she even have to worry about facial recognition at all? Had she stuck with that, she'd have had no need for facial recognition.
     
  15. LamboMan Civilian

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    She's the Loch Ness monster in that picture, sure, but there are real recognizable and traceable human beings in that picture, are there not? That's what I was talking about. The truth coming out through her connections or their descendants.

    We don't know that for sure. Batman used something called a "Leech", the name of that device he attached to Lex's servers. We can see than name when he gets it back and decrypts it on his Batcomputer. That device could have very well "sucked" that info right out of Lex's server by way of copying it and then deleting it from the servers. Like a leech draws blood.

    I'm just speculating, not saying I know this for a fact, but it's not that much of a stretch considering Batman was going there to "steal" data, which makes it that much more valuable if you wipe the originals once you've stolen the data.

    My response about facial recognition was for obredaans point: "3 - How did Lex get this photo? How does Lex even know about her being a Meta-Human? Cause he saw an ATM video of a woman who resembles the photo from WW1 and that's it?"

    I explained that facial recognition captured her face and matched it to the WW photo. WW herself didn't seem to know what was in that photo but knew that it would be incriminating and could possibly lead man's world to themiscyra and so she needed to get it before it was used for that purpose.

    Diana didn't even know about the facial recognition, she just got captured looking at a device that she had most probably never seen before since her last trip to man's world in 1918, which isn't even weird since many modern people might still glance at a security camera once in a while.
     
  16. souperman Side-Dish

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    all good points.

    I'd add that she doesn't really want or need the photo back. Her interest is that Lex has an interest in her and has been watching her.

    The image could easily be explained that it was her grandmother or something. No biggie. but you see in all the other surveillance vids, she looks right at the cameras. She "knows" someone is watching her and wants to know why.
     
  17. LamboMan Civilian

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    Thanks! And just to clarify there were just two pieces of surveillance that we saw: One picture where she is seen looking not at the photographer directly but at something or someone else across the street in the vicinity of the photographer, implying she didn't know she was caught on camera but was just looking around for people who could be suspicious of her and secondly the security footage where she goes up to the ATM, looks behind her and then looks at the camera, all of which shows us that she seems to be on tenterhooks and worried that someone could "possibly" be watching her and she keeps trying to look for that person(s) in order to identify and/or avoid them, but she doesn't "know" that someone is watching her for sure, until she finds out somehow that Lex has a photo of her and could possibly have something more on her.
     
  18. sf2 Superhero

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    i think it's a lady thing... just wanna make sure she looks good in the photo... or what kinda photo is it... haha

    so that she could have a copy too...
     
  19. turbosjc7 Civilian

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    If you haven't seen the clips from the UE that leaked online before they were taken down, many of the so-called "plot holes" were addressed!

    There is a lot more Clark Kent and Superman doing Superman things like saving people!
     
  20. idiot09 Living in a society

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    Also lets not forget how amazingly lex orchaestrated the whole thing.Right from the africa sequence,where he frames superman,Luthor hiring the actress for the Naoromi hearings (including her talking about superman burning people with his heat vision). Luthor arranging for the prison murders and baiting Clark into investigating them. Luthor killing the Naoromi lady. Lois finding out the truth about the bullets origin but being unable to get to Clark fast enough to stop him going to the courthouse. Finch actually knowing about the actress and getting ready to dress Luthor down in front of the court. Luthor smiling maniacally as news reports come in of anonymous sources linking Superman to the bombing.Luthor using lead bullets to hide it from Superman.Luthor trying to pin the whole thing on Wally. Lois surmising that Wally might not have even known he was carrying a bomb. Clark and Batman being specifically invited to the Library party.

    All this gives us so much more depth into the character Lex is.He was always 3 steps ahead of everyone,using everyone as his puppet.This is why he was the best Lex Luthor on screen,and a very good villain.Cant wait for the Ultimate Cut.
     
  21. AnneFan Hathaway #1

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    Yep. People may not like Eisenberg, but his Lex probably does the most scheming of any live action incarnation.
     
  22. idiot09 Living in a society

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    Also in reply to @turbosjc7

    From what I interpreted,in the scene where Lex talks to the senator in his house,he tries to win her over at first using his emotions,saying stuff like "I like to keep things the way they were","the magical thinking of orphan boys","maybe he would come back"....saying stuff like this to gather sympathy from the senator to potray himself as this sad orphan boy.The moment June says "Im blocking the import license",his demeanour hardens,he becomes cold.

    I cants say how much I loved Eisenberg's potrayal of Lex.It was such a layered performance.
     
  23. Doctor Octopus Sidekick

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    lol he one of most worst villains ever. As bad as campy villains in Joel Schumacher Batman.
     
  24. idiot09 Living in a society

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    He was manic at times,but also extremely serious and sinister at times.Like a dual persona,one public one private.Then at the end his conversation with Batman in the UC hints that he behaved like an insane person to avoid going to jail.Its all very open to interpretation.It is a huge disservice to his performance to call him a campy villain.Just my 2 cents.
     
  25. gdw Superhero

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    The THEATRICAL CUT was a disservice to his performance. Hell, it was a disservice to MOST of their performances.
     

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