ironman/captain america - casualties of war...thoughts?? (possible spoilers)

[Memphis Slim]

Brought him in where? Do what with him? What exactly would be the purpose of this? What makes them any better than Stark at that point? What would they accomplish?

And you'd be surprised by the people who become martyrs because the fact is, Tony Stark has one thing Cap doesnt have at the moment, the American people.

A bargaining chip maybe? Who knows?? Maybe just having him so he can't invent more weapons to hurt them with.....especially no Ironman.

And not all of the American people are for this. You have been reading this series, right???

 

[Darthphere]

A bargaining chip maybe? Who knows?? Maybe just having him so he can't invent more weapons to hurt them with.....especially no Ironman.

And not all of the American people are for this. You have been reading this series, right???

The majority, like in Rome, the mob rules, you live in fantasy land?


And LAWL! Because Tony is the only Pro-reg guy that can build weapons, lol, preposterous notion, really you have no clue about what you're talking about. Just stop now, please you're killing me. LMAO!


And a bargaining chip, are you serious?

Cap: Hill, we have Stark, abolish this fascist law and you can get him back.

Hill: Are you serious?

Cap: Don't make me punch him really hard, You're forcing my hand Hill!

Hill: Um, yeah you can keep him, we have the Sentry and pretty much every Marvel villain known to man.

Cap: But who will build your weapons?

Hill: Did you get ******ed or something?

 

[Mister J]

Just pasting from the B/T thread:

Excellent synopsis. When I decide to get of my duff and head to the LCS, I may just grab this thing.

 

[Dread]

Excellent synopsis. When I decide to get of my duff and head to the LCS, I may just grab this thing.

Thanks. As BrainWilly said elsewhere, this series, coming out as CW is in it's last act, has Stark narrow down a pro SHRA agruement that doesn't make him look like a jerk, a manipulator, or a fascist. His arguement is that the SHRA is his way of PREVENTING the gov't from doing more extreme things to control the superhumans, like PROJECT WIDEAWAKE with a Sentinal army or no end of bad junk. The Marvel U.S. gov't has been overzealous and corrupt long before Joe Q was EIC so these predictions aren't extreme in the least, considering this was a gov't that makes Sentinals, no end of stabs at super-soldiers or villians who turn out to be villians, and have offered many villian amnesty in exchange for becoming agents (even the original Venom).

 

[Darthphere]

Dread, something about what you posted about the meeting itself not happening and not making sense that it happened. I gotta disagree, during war time, its not without precedent that two heads of states or generals meet to see if some compromised is reached. It has happened before, and will happen again. The only thing i'll agree with is that they probably wouldve and shouldve brought back-up. Like in West Side Story.

 

[Mister J]

Thanks. As BrainWilly said elsewhere, this series, coming out as CW is in it's last act, has Stark narrow down a pro SHRA agruement that doesn't make him look like a jerk, a manipulator, or a fascist. His arguement is that the SHRA is his way of PREVENTING the gov't from doing more extreme things to control the superhumans, like PROJECT WIDEAWAKE with a Sentinal army or no end of bad junk. The Marvel U.S. gov't has been overzealous and corrupt long before Joe Q was EIC so these predictions aren't extreme in the least, considering this was a gov't that makes Sentinals, no end of stabs at super-soldiers or villians who turn out to be villians, and have offered many villian amnesty in exchange for becoming agents (even the original Venom).

A couple of months ago, I decided to say to hell to all the CW tie-ins, unless I was already reading the title. The whole ordeal was starting to drag for me. A one-shot would have been out of the question, but this sounds pretty good.

 

[Dread]

A couple of months ago, I decided to say to hell to all the CW tie-ins, unless I was already reading the title. The whole ordeal was starting to drag for me. A one-shot would have been out of the question, but this sounds pretty good.

I find this one to be almost essential. Amazingly, none of the core CW writers were willing or able to write it (Millar, Bendis, JMS, Brubaker, or Jenkins). Instead it goes to Christos N. Gage, an unknown to me.

 

[Darthphere]

He wrote the just wrapped up Union Jack mini.

 

[BrianWilly]

Iron Man/Captain America: Civil War: Casualties of War
Wow, what a long title.

Copying and pasting from another thread: I actually really liked Iron Man/Captain America: Casualties of War this week though. Yes, it had nice characterization and dialogue or whatever, but what really got me is that it contained the single most unbiased, thought-out, convincing, and understandable version of the pro-registration argument that I've heard to date. And considering that this whole CW event is almost over, that's saying a lot. None of this "It's the law and the law is right" nonsense. And none of this "We must do whatever it takes for security!" spiel.

In the end, it's this, "Wouldn't you want someone to stop you from ever killing a man?"

Yeah, I'm totally aware that the SHRA is still complete bullsht that does the heavy-boots trample all over the Constitution and no due process gulag whatever evil evil SHIELD people Agent Hill is a btch THOR CLONES and Venom -- did I miss anything? -- but the great thing is that absolutely none of that appears in this issue. Everything that Marvel has done since the beginning to completely demonize the pro-reg side (and claim that they don't) is flagrantly ignored in this book in lieu of a completely sympathizable Tony Stark giving a completely lucid appeal for the registration, supporting his arguments with very relevant events of canon. Cap doesn't slouch in this department either, but usually the anti-regs give pretty good speeches about their points of views anyway so Tony was really in the spotlight here.

It's hilarious that all this good stuff -- practically crucial if you truly want to understand these characters and this war -- came out not in the main title, not in any of the tie-ins, but in an unplanned one-shot that Marvel rushed out 'cause of the negative feedback. Hey, at least we can't accuse them of not paying attention to our reactions.

Plus points for awesome continuity!

(9 out of 10)

 

[Dread]

Dread, something about what you posted about the meeting itself not happening and not making sense that it happened. I gotta disagree, during war time, its not without precedent that two heads of states or generals meet to see if some compromised is reached. It has happened before, and will happen again. The only thing i'll agree with is that they probably wouldve and shouldve brought back-up. Like in West Side Story.

It just seemed weird. It came after CIVIL WAR #5, and the last ASM/FF tie-in's with the two sides fighting in the streets to free captured anti-Reg. heroes, where Puppet Master & Mad Thinker manipulated events to accidently kill that Yancy Street kid and urge Thing to retire to France. On the one hand, Bill's death made for a good conversation starter and factored heavy into the dialogue. But on the other hand it would have made more sense had it happened before. But, that said, I was willing to go with it because it was a good read.

Even if, as you agree with me, both of them going alone and then leaving alone has no logical or tactical sense. Especially after Iron Man essentially said, "I could leave the Pro-SHRA side and it still goes on, but without you, the Secret Avengers are reduced to maybe 3-4 guys". Maybe Gage was trying to remember that Stark had some honor, but this is on the heels of those past incidents where "being tactical" trumped "honor". Like taking out Wiccan & Cloak to prevent escape and THEN asking for a talk. Like selling out Jessica Drew the MOMENT she was not going to agree with Stark (Wolverine, an equal security risk, is fine so long as he remains nuetral, and Sentry, a bipolar demigod, is kosher because he agrees). Like taking tips from the Kingpin. Like shaking hands with Baron Zemo, the guy who led the Masters of Evil into Avengers mansion to pummel the Avengers nearly kill Jarvis & Hercules, and reduce Cap to tears after ripping apart the only photo of his mother. Yes, THIS Stark just happens to let Cap walk out. It's not Gage's fault, really, but the fault of the event I suppose, that they reduced Stark to this. Gage at least attempts to make it all work out well.

Mr. Fantastic, at least, has fewer excuses.

 

[Memphis Slim]

The majority, like in Rome, the mob rules, you live in fantasy land?


And LAWL! Because Tony is the only Pro-reg guy that can build weapons, lol, preposterous notion, really you have no clue about what you're talking about. Just stop now, please you're killing me. LMAO!


And a bargaining chip, are you serious?

Cap: Hill, we have Stark, abolish this fascist law and you can get him back.

Hill: Are you serious?

Cap: Don't make me punch him really hard, You're forcing my hand Hill!

Hill: Um, yeah you can keep him, we have the Sentry and pretty much every Marvel villain known to man.

Cap: But who will build your weapons?

Hill: Did you get ******ed or something?

Fella....Stop acting like you're on a school playground. Listen to yourself. Calm down......gee whiz...you're writing fake dialogue to prove your point??? LOL It ain't that deep.

Let's just agree to disagree. Stop coming off like a jerk all of the time.

 

[Union Jack]

He wrote the just wrapped up Union Jack mini.

which i enjoyed thoroughly!!!!

in all fairness the whole iron man is a ass thing is a bit blown up i think now,at first i really disliked I.M for his tactics but i see a bit more after this issue of where he is coming from.

i still side with cap cos its making people sign something they dont want to and shouldnt have to...its very mutant rights like in the x-men.

It also shows that there is a glimmer of hope for tony and steve to become friends again eventually.

 

[Havok83]

when exactly does this take place?

 

[3dman27]

*shrugs* Ironman's a scumbag and Captain America is a soldier. He's at war.
Look at what he did the last time he was at war. He dragged a fifteen year old boy into the toughest most important battles of world war two with no protection aside from a single shield.

I distinctly remember Cap standing over a crate of grenades hurling them into crowds of people. I dont see playing two crime lords and a war monger against each other as any worse.

it was established in captain america during the winter soldier storyline that bucky was in this TWENTIES when he worked with cap .the kid sidekick angle was just a cover story to counteract the hitler youth movement

 

[Darthphere]

Fella....Stop acting like you're on a school playground. Listen to yourself. Calm down......gee whiz...you're writing fake dialogue to prove your point??? LOL It ain't that deep.

Let's just agree to disagree. Stop coming off like a jerk all of the time.

Um, sorry I won't agree to disagree because there's a simple fact. I'm right, you're wrong, and you've done nothing, NOTHING to prove your point. But this is like a playground, and you're clearly not ready for the big boy jungle gym.